So you want to play in Open, eh?

[Raile]

And this is a big problem FDEV needs to fix. The instancing is just not working for these types of deals. They need to make the instancing allow more players. Fix the instancing!!

You say that, but do you really want the medium pad docking lines to be double or triple in length?

 

[Lupis]

And this is a big problem FDEV needs to fix. The instancing is just not working for these types of deals. They need to make the instancing allow more players. Fix the instancing!!

Ding. collect 200 space bucks.

This is the big problem.

 

[Rauminen]

It is an exercise in futility.

Trying to tell people what to do and how to play a game. Or how to do anything for that matter. People will do what they want, or (feel they) have to.

Just because you can gank weapon and/or shieldless ships with your PvP kitted combat vessels, (or 4v1 some poor guy = "perfectly legitimate combat tactics") doesn't mean that you can tell them how to play, which game mode to log in with, or not to high wake.

Just because you like cooperative gameplay, friendliness and overall you have empathy for other players doesn't mean that everyone will.

There is no end to this discussion.

----

Playing to have fun _only_ when others do _not_ have fun is _morally_ wrong. No one should talk about what game mechanics/rules allow or not in this regard. You should just understand this by default based on the fact that you are a human being living in a society.

Then again some people will have this kind of so called "moral compass", others won't. You can't make them have it. You can't make them forget it.

Anyhow, Rau's 2 cents. Over and out.

 

[LeetNoob]

The numbers tell the story well enough.

We were shy of the top tier by 500000 - so if everyone was flying a Python with 290 tonnes - which they weren't - the Code would have had to destroy nearly 2000 ships.

That didn't happen.

So they were from the point of view of stopping us reaching the final tier - completely blockade ineffective.

It was insufficient contributors and/or not quite enough time to reach the top tier - take your pick.

I'd bet most of the contributors would consider it a roaring success regardless.

Ok, can't argue with that.

 

[Crash1099]

Can you please go back to lave and destroy the alliance. Thank you.

 

[ianw]

Ding. collect 200 space bucks.

This is the big problem.

Sure is.

Quick tell Frontier - some clod forgot to select the "make instancing work" option from the drop down box on the server.

 

[mr.wolfie]

I have only two points to make:

1. Sitting on a pad and preventing other people from landing seems like an exploit to me.
2. If you play in Open, you want to PVP.

I do not play in Open, and never will, because it is an environment where players will exploit game mechanics to further their aims, rather than an environment where players roleplay in a simulation. It is the difference between "winning" a game and participating in a virtual reality. I opt for the latter.
For those same reasons, I will probably never bother with this CQC thingummy either.

I am glad that the OP and his group exist and that they have proven the validity of the group & solo modes for Elite : Dangerous.

 

[Scudmungus]

I would've enjoyed the CG far better if it would have been possible to have a proper pitched battle...as it was (due to my and my wingman's ignorance), instancing was messed up, tried to kill MrSpoonsi and his friend, failed (nice work, no hacks, you just killed me fair and square lol), went home.

I think all of this drama would've been avoided if we could've just met CODE in the open field and had it out with all of them, rather than hoping to land in their instance.

Dis EddiesMinion. Eddie rockin hard. Mi luv Eddie!

 

[Lupis]

Sure is.

Quick tell Frontier - some clod forgot to select the "make instancing work" option from the drop down box on the server.

Hmm that makes sense.

Wonder what they ticked instead? XD

- - - Updated - - -

Dis EddiesMinion. Eddie rockin hard. Mi luv Eddie!

Eddie got it in one.

 

[Roybe]

From a thread about blockading the Diso CG long ago:



To everybody reading this: please don't respond to old threads. I post this link just for information purposes.

My only reply to that last part is...there is an option that is not being considered...and take my recent posting idea (PVE in OpenVP in CQC) as a possible way out the devs could implement. Unintended consequences occur....often.


I certainly support the idea of showing up potential weaknesses by pushing the game hard in a given direction...lord knows, I have been involved in the same tactic. And have had some game changing rules put in place because of it. Some of these rules helped and some hindered the game. This event certainly pushed the envelope of that tactic...and, thankfully, FDev seems to be thick skinned about it and accept that players will push them in this manner.

I would make one other observation...FDev does have to walk a tight rope in this discussion...because they desire this type of reaction from the player base. If they create to tight of a justice system no one will play the bad guys. At which point they might as well just go PVE in Open since PVP will be non-existent. We, as a community, have to accept that bad things will happen in Open. If we do not...then nothing interesting will happen in Open. That does not mean we have to be complacent about what happens in Open...just that we, as players, need to learn that the first line of defense against this is in our hands...sticks, keyboards, and HOTAS.

To FDev on this last point...this only works if the game lets us fight against these players...without a sensible way to expect instancing to work...there is no real way to fight people...no reason to organize a resistance to this....no real reason to PVP...if you want PVP to be meaningful it needs to be able to occur without everyone knowing 'tricks' to get together in an instance.

 

[two quiet suns]

i was constantly back and forth to hutton and never once saw any evidence of code or anyone else causing trouble. grind to a halt, not quite.. did make for some possible excitement though!

 

[Lupis]

i was constantly back and forth to hutton and never once saw any evidence of code or anyone else causing trouble. grind to a halt, not quite.. did make for some possible excitement though!

I think there was instancing issues going on in that area. Also it was a small group that was doing the damage.

 

[ianw]

i was constantly back and forth to hutton and never once saw any evidence of code or anyone else causing trouble. grind to a halt, not quite.. did make for some possible excitement though!

Looks like I got the excitement that must have been meant for you - cost me 3 mill.

We can try and re-create it if you don't mind forking over say 1.5 mill??

 

[Lupis]

My only reply to that last part is...there is an option that is not being considered...and take my recent posting idea (PVE in OpenVP in CQC) as a possible way out the devs could implement. Unintended consequences occur....often.


I certainly support the idea of showing up potential weaknesses by pushing the game hard in a given direction...lord knows, I have been involved in the same tactic. And have had some game changing rules put in place because of it. Some of these rules helped and some hindered the game. This event certainly pushed the envelope of that tactic...and, thankfully, FDev seems to be thick skinned about it and accept that players will push them in this manner.

I would make one other observation...FDev does have to walk a tight rope in this discussion...because they desire this type of reaction from the player base. If they create to tight of a justice system no one will play the bad guys. At which point they might as well just go PVE in Open since PVP will be non-existant. We, as a community, have to accept that bad things will happen in Open. If we do not...then nothing interesting will happen in Open. That does not mean we have to be complacent about what happens in Open...just that we, as players, need to learn that the first line of defense against this is in our hands...sticks, keyboards, and HOTAS.

To FDev on this last point...this only works if the game lets us fight against these players...without a sensible way to expect instancing to work...there is no real way to fight people...no reason to organize a resistance to this....no real reason to PVP...if you want PVP to be meaningful it needs to be able to occur without everyone knowing 'tricks' to get together in an instance.

Thing is they are treating for all intensive purpose a MMO as a single player open world game with an on-line element.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

(NOTE: the following public service announcement is Nonya's opinion only and is not an official communication from Code itself)

Seems like the blockade of the Hutton Orbital CG has angered a lot of players who thought the CG would be a 1.5 hour "cakewalk" for them and a lot of ideas about how to "fix" such a thing are being floated around, all of which can be subverted and used against the very players who suggest them.

Here's one reason why Code was so successful against the CG participants - organization and coordination. The CG players had none, Code has it in spades.
Here's another reason - knowledge of the in-game mechanics. Code members have spent considerable time and in-game credit expense in working out the different play factors of the game.

1. Did you know that if you kill enough system police in an instance that no more will spawn in that instance? Nope, you didn't. We did though. But we didn't do it in this case because we were much too busy chasing you all out of the system, and quite frankly we had a much easier way to tie up the system po-po and make them ineffective.

2. Did you know that if a commander sits on a pad they're invincible to attack? You should know since a lot of you suggested that happen because during the early betas prior to game release players were able to be killed on pads and the uproar against that was right here in these very forums.

3. Did you also know that once a wanted commander is scanned prior to docking their docking privs are immediately revoked and they cannot dock?

4. Did you know what once a wanted commander is docked and then scanned by system security forces the sec forces IMMEDIATELY open fire on them on the dock until the commander is destroyed?

5. Did you know said commander cannot be destroyed because YOU didn't want to be vulnerable on the docking pad to attack so you had FD make it so.

6. Did you also know that when said forces are firing on said commander on the docking pad that they also ignore all other wanted players - including YOU if you accidentally fire at the station - and remain fixated on the docked wanted commander?

7. Did you know about anchor wings?

8. Do you know about exactly how instancing works?

9. Do you know the real difference between a combat log and regular save-and-quit?

I could go on and on with things about this game that 99% of you didn't know existed until you read this post but I digress. The problem isn't with what Code was able to successfully achieve utilizing their knowledge and skill of in-game mechanics, coordination, and lines of communication, it's with what you don't know about the game you're playing because the vast majority of you are either playing in solo/private groups and have been so safe in there that you haven't felt the need to practice combat against other players or to really understand how this game works.

Face facts people, there are not a lot of Code members. Maybe a max of 20 participated in this at a single time for an hour or two in and instance or two, most of the time it was 10-15 in a single instance.
The fact that this tiny infinitesimal number of players were able to pretty much grind the Hutton Orbital CG to a halt at-will should push everyone to practice combat skills and tactics a lot more. We saw a couple of really good 1v1 combat commanders out there but they weren't enough in numbers and they weren't a match for our completely-legitimate combat tactics.

It should also push more of you out there to group up and form Trade Organizations complete with your own lines of communication (Teamspeak, Discord, etc.), coordination (forums, sub-sections here, etc.), and tactics (trade wings, combat wings, scout wings, organizational roles, etc.). Get out of your bad habits treating open like it was solo or private group. It's not and nor should it ever be. It's different and much more exciting. Here are few ways you can help yourselves:

1. If you want to trade in open, don't run shieldless ANYTHING.

2. Don't be alone, especially in any "Type" trading ship. We're more prone to go after loners who think Open is Solo than a wing of 4.

3. Have at least 1 dedicated combat ship in your trade wing to force us to focus attention on it first allowing you time to jump away and get to the closest station.

4. Don't ever, ever, ever combat log. Not only do we report every single combat log to FDEV you instantly go on our kill-on-sight list and there won't be a friendly warning.

5. When told to stop and submit to a cargo scan when you're alone - stop. This is why the majority of traders who think Open-is-Solo die.

Now for another shocker - most members of Code actually DO trade (mostly smuggling) and we mostly do it in open unless we're experimenting with something and don't want to be bothered during the experiment in which case we drop down to Solo to figure it out. And unless we've got combat wingmates we do it in Pythons, clippers, and condas that have shields and can fight.

Another pro-tip: friend EVERYONE you meet - even those you hate. Why? Because, not only does it show them where YOU are but it shows you where THEY are.
That means if you see a cluster of so-called "baddies" in a system you know to avoid that system like the plague and hold on to those profits a bit longer. It will also let you see hotspots faster, i.e. a CG you might not have known about or other event like a race that isn't built into the game menus like a CG is. I always laugh when someone I've never attacked and/or pirated or even talked to suddenly unfriends me. "OK buddy, now you have no idea where I'll be at any given time and doom on you if it all goes pear-shaped." I've had randoms direct message me in game asking questions and I've usually answered them with tips on where to find this or that or how to grind rank faster, etc. Unless I'm busy - i.e. in a fight or working on an experiment - I usually reply.

I guess the bottom line is we need you folks to get better at this because right now while your forum posts may be entertaining to read online, in-game you're boring us and we need you to start creating your own in-game content on-the-fly like we do. FDEV does not always have to create it. Look at those wacky races (which look like fun by the way) around stations, or out to Sag A. Where are the trade competitions? CZ Combat competitions (CQC does NOT count, sorry Xbox players)? Mining competitions (mine this much X from this exact RES in X amount of time)? Where are the trade wars? (heh, TradeWars2002 notwithstanding....)

The Hutton blockade was quite literally an off-the-cuff suggestion by me (yes, blame me for all of it, I have thick skin) as we were bored to tears in-game and were pretty mad at such a ludicrous idea for a CG already.
You haven't seen us truly plan for and execute a determined operation yet. You've only seen what we can achieve with hasty 5-minute planning.
But thanks for the great practice though! And for those commanders that made it through the blockade in open and who were actually in an instance with us, bravo!
You were very very lucky.

Poetry, all of it, have rep

 

[Theodrid]

Sorry, but where do you get that from?
CODE is not the one ranting at FD to "fix" something, they are merely playing the game - in contrast to others.

I don't see them lobbying for en EVEesque experience, in no thread I have seen have they stated that they want Solo or Group mode abolished.

Yeah sure, 'wah, wah we didn't like this cg so we are gonna ruin iit, wah, wah Frontier aren't conforming to what we at CODE want', dream on.

 

[EddiesMinion]

Eddie got it in one.

Dis EddiesMinion. Eddie rockin hard. Mi luv Eddie!

What can I say? I want big fights...a squadron of CODE Eagles harassing a defending Annie, Pythons trading blows (and SCBs, but that's for another thread!)...being able as the force commander to fly above the battle and organise flanking manoeuvres...would be awesome. And it would've made this CG something to talk about in a good way. Imagine the GalNet article: CODE, smaller in number, picking off the weaker members of the defending fleet and retreating, roving patrols finding and destroying sneaky pirates...all the while, wings of traders with escorts fly past the fighting (in the same instance!), hoping to whatever god there is that they don't get spotted (or caught in the crossfire).

I use brackets too much (probably)

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

The numbers tell the story well enough.

We were shy of the top tier by 500000 - so if everyone was flying a Python with 290 tonnes - which they weren't - the Code would have had to destroy nearly 2000 ships.

That didn't happen.

So they were from the point of view of stopping us reaching the final tier - completely blockade ineffective.

It was insufficient contributors and/or not quite enough time to reach the top tier - take your pick.

I'd bet most of the contributors would consider it a roaring success regardless.

You would have a point, if all those threads claiming the CG was ruined for them by Code did not exist, or all those reactionary propositions to punish people who PK in Open.

 

[Khelder]

It is an exercise in futility.

Unfortunately, yes.

Playing to have fun _only_ when others do _not_ have fun is _morally_ wrong. No one should talk about what game mechanics/rules allow or not in this regard. You should just understand this by default based on the fact that you are a human being living in a society.

I certainly agree. I personally cannot bring myself to attack other human commanders without provocation. But there needs to be a bit of a grey area here. We are playing in a dangerous universe with allowed professions (not just pirating) that are what most people would call morally reprehensible. There has to be some allowance for people to play in roles that - hopefully - they wouldn't dream of outside of the simulation. And without a certain amount of thuggery, there is no real fear, so the excitement is gone.

The problem, as always, seems to come down to balance.

The use of exploits, cheats, and general behaviour that is closer to sadistic griefing than roleplaying just makes it worse.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

OP TL;DR! And I don't care what you say as I have a theory. CODE are out to harm ED.

There, I said it. It's a less crazy theory than flat earth or Nibiru. My theory is that they are scared that Eve will die with the new age of space sims and I predict that they will do the same in SC and NMS plus any other MP space sims that come out.

No doubt they will call me crazy but I'll just keep throwing cats around and ranting like a loony until it all comes to pass.

I think they make the game better, but that is just an opinion i suppose.