Which is just a way to completely avoid discussing why it should be present in the first place. Then again, my inner spod could likely handle a BBS type thing, with appropriate ATDT and V34 negotiation sounds etc.
Universe Wide Chat... Why Is It Not A Thing?
- Thread starter zsharpes
- Start date
Which is just a way to completely avoid discussing why it should be present in the first place. Then again, my inner spod could likely handle a BBS type thing, with appropriate ATDT and V34 negotiation sounds etc.
Ah. That makes more sense.
Sorry. I was really basing the question on a typical IM-style chat system. The usenet-style approach would be more useful for organised communication. It would also be a LOT worse for spam/abuse etc. Mainly because you can't just rely on "it'll disappear in a few seconds" to deal with the junk.
That's why I propose only showing recent broadcasts, twitter-style - to reduce bandwidth and clear the junk.
Every concern about chats can be resolved. Instead of using an excuse as a reason to why something couldn't work why not come up with a solution so it could work.
First if there chat channels you can join, create and leave them at will. You don't need to see the Galaxy chat channel if you don't want to. But you may join a channel of like minded individuals who are say... doing a trade route to Hutton Orbital. If you are in a Hutton channel you can hear the current pirate abuse going on around Hutton even when you're not in the system.
To address message bandwidth concerns this could be a message flow that makes this less of an issue:
1. Client sends chat message.
2. Message transmits to instance owner which is another client.
3. Instance owner sends message to FD server.
4. FD does a basic automated check of the message (spam, known channel abuser, undesirable content)
5. FD sends message to all Instance owners.
6. Instance owner sends message to all clients in their instance.
7. Client displays message.
Within the flow there can be bandwidth throttle checks to make sure the channel isn't getting too flooded.
First if there chat channels you can join, create and leave them at will. You don't need to see the Galaxy chat channel if you don't want to. But you may join a channel of like minded individuals who are say... doing a trade route to Hutton Orbital. If you are in a Hutton channel you can hear the current pirate abuse going on around Hutton even when you're not in the system.
To address message bandwidth concerns this could be a message flow that makes this less of an issue:
1. Client sends chat message.
2. Message transmits to instance owner which is another client.
3. Instance owner sends message to FD server.
4. FD does a basic automated check of the message (spam, known channel abuser, undesirable content)
5. FD sends message to all Instance owners.
6. Instance owner sends message to all clients in their instance.
7. Client displays message.
Within the flow there can be bandwidth throttle checks to make sure the channel isn't getting too flooded.
I'm just trying to figure out exactly what people would use the comms for. Particularly with the suggestions around delayed transit (because... lore/science/whatever). The usefulness of a delayed message didn't really seem apparent to me.
Your suggestion would offload a bit of the bandwidth from FD. There would be no need for the originator to send through the instance owner though. The FD server still needs to receive the message, so going through a proxy doesn't make much difference.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
This assumes that the instance owner has enough upload bandwidth to accommodate the extra comms load in addition to hosting the instance in the first place.
Passing the dissemination to players in the instance to the players hosting the instances would add to the burden of hosting the instance.
If this method was employed then I would hope that players who opt out of such communications would not be expected to expend upload data (possibly limited) on providing them to others.
You answered your own question here; wrt usefulness of a delayed message: "(because... lore/science/whatever)"
You answered your own question here; wrt usefulness of a delayed message: "(because... lore/science/whatever)"
That's the reason for, not usefulness of.
I was just picturing the Fuel Rats using delayed comms. Some poor player gets stuck out in the middle of nowhere. "Help me! I suck at fuel scooping." A couple of days/hours/minutes (come on - it would have to be a reasonable delay to fit... science) a Fuel Rat picks up the message. "I'll get it!" He sets off. A couple of minutes later (because he was slightly further away) another Fuel Rat picks up the original message but hasn't received the first Fuel Rat's response yet. "I'll get it!" He sets off too. Meanwhile, the original player hasn't heard back yet and decided it was easier just to self-destruct and stay closer to home. The two fuel rats spend an exciting time trying to coordinate between themselves and the original player who they haven't heard back from yet (because he is no longer there) but expect to eventually (because... science).
I don't think you understand how instance hosting currently works.
The game already works this way:
The first player in an instance OWNS the instance and their game client hosts it for subsequent players who come to that zone (other factors involve like real world location). Instances are capped at 32 players per instance. I would venture to guess that Local chat is also served by the client hosting the instance.
So the game is already designed such that the client has to have sufficient upstream for hosting instances.
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In the Fuel Rats case, the responder(s) would send a Wing invite (or direct message) to the player who could then add them to their wing so they can find them or co-ordinate with them.That's the reason for, not usefulness of.
I was just picturing the Fuel Rats using delayed comms. Some poor player gets stuck out in the middle of nowhere. "Help me! I suck at fuel scooping." A couple of days/hours/minutes (come on - it would have to be a reasonable delay to fit... science) a Fuel Rat picks up the message. "I'll get it!" He sets off. A couple of minutes later (because he was slightly further away) another Fuel Rat picks up the original message but hasn't received the first Fuel Rat's response yet. "I'll get it!" He sets off too. Meanwhile, the original player hasn't heard back yet and decided it was easier just to self-destruct and stay closer to home. The two fuel rats spend an exciting time trying to coordinate between themselves and the original player who they haven't heard back from yet (because he is no longer there) but expect to eventually (because... science).
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The basic idea in that case would not be a true chat system but rather a simple non-guaranteed delivery message broadcast system. Wing/Direct comms would work as it does now.
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The idea of an emergency broadcast system like that described would have to have abuses of it reportable as an offence (to discourage griefing/ganking) and may require tweaking of the way instancing works for responders. Either way it is not a public chat system in any real sense of the term.
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From what I read, many people's connections are flat out handling an instance now.
You answered your own question here; wrt usefulness of a delayed message: "(because... lore/science/whatever)"
Chats don't need to be delayed. You can already voice chat in game with someone with no delay which essentially "breaks lore". Also you can text chat with people in the same supercruise instance in real time regardless if they are next to the entry point or 1000 LS away. Artificially delaying messages in a chat to preserve lore (which is already broken by other already existing communication systems) would break gameplay.
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I should have made that clear. Instancing already works as the way I described. Thank you.
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Yeah. I've followed a couple of rescue hookups over IRC. Problem is, the wing/direct comms goes against... science.
I was imagining what it would be like if there were a delayed transit messaging system that everyone chose to use (and there were no direct comms - other than in-system - alternatives).
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I completely agree. Not everyone does though.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - with the data requirements of an up-to-32-player instance - not the comms requirements imposed by an unspecified number of players from separate instances.
Using the previous (albeit extreme) example of 50,000 players in chat at 100 characters per minute per player, the instance host would need to disseminate an additional 0.667Mbps *per player* - I know that my connection could not handle (up to) 21Mbps outbound - just for chat, in addition to the requirements of handling the game instance....
Lustan, there is no instance owner. Only a group of equally entitled, connected peers. I just discussed this with Flappers, please see my post history if you don't believe me.
you want a chat where 5k of people chat in? much fun trying to read this.
if any there should be a system wide chat available but anything larger than this is hardly feasable with everyone writing in it.
Maybe allow the PP feature to let anyone at the highest rank to a character broadcast messages to all systems this characetr owns.
if any there should be a system wide chat available but anything larger than this is hardly feasable with everyone writing in it.
Maybe allow the PP feature to let anyone at the highest rank to a character broadcast messages to all systems this characetr owns.
That's the reason for, not usefulness of.
I was just picturing the Fuel Rats using delayed comms. Some poor player gets stuck out in the middle of nowhere. "Help me! I suck at fuel scooping." A couple of days/hours/minutes (come on - it would have to be a reasonable delay to fit... science) a Fuel Rat picks up the message. "I'll get it!" He sets off. A couple of minutes later (because he was slightly further away) another Fuel Rat picks up the original message but hasn't received the first Fuel Rat's response yet. "I'll get it!" He sets off too. Meanwhile, the original player hasn't heard back yet and decided it was easier just to self-destruct and stay closer to home. The two fuel rats spend an exciting time trying to coordinate between themselves and the original player who they haven't heard back from yet (because he is no longer there) but expect to eventually (because... science).
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
Life is tough.
Get your point though.
Then, imho, that should be changed to include the delay.
Just because something is already in the game, doesn't mean it's okay to keep adding to it and thereby making the entire thing worse.
I don't really know why but I find the very idea of instantaneous communication across the galaxy without any lore to support it ... incredibly distasteful; it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth - like it breaks the game or something.
Hmm, weird. heh
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Your conclusion that all 50,000 players would send 100 characters per minute is a false one. Most players would be lurkers with the small handful of active chatters. And all this could again be throttled by FD as I described.
Also if the chat is just something you get no value out of you can "/leave Galaxy" thus leaving the aptly named Galaxy channel. Meanwhile you could "/join HuttonTrade" and keep track of the current conditions of the route from others running it.
Again my proposed channel view:
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Also then consider that you can instantly see on the galaxy map where all your friends are. This is lore breaking. Also Galnet can now be seen across the entire galaxy. This is lore breaking. Also I can see PowerPlay maps from across the galaxy. This is lore breaking.
Actually we need to disconnect "lore breaking" from "science breaking". And at the heart almost this entire game is science breaking. The only part of the game that's not science breaking is when you are in normal thruster flight and not in supercruise or hyperspace. Every other aspect of this game breaks science.
So I think this hitch on "science" can be left at the wayside and just accept the Newtonian flight model and the picturesque scenes as close to "real science" as this game gets.
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If we're going to get delayed chat them devs shouldn't bother with it at all, IMHO. Delay makes the whole point of in-game comms obsolete. Lore (what little we have of it) has been already broken anyway, and even it if wasn't: gameplay > lore.
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