Is it time once again to nerf the Python?

[CHOPP3R]

I get what everyone that wants a change is saying, that dedicated ships should be better at the role they're designed for but in this case it is IMHO as it's cheaper to kit out a decent T7 than a decent Python so it is right for its role.

My organic progress (without using excel or any other calculator to work out a more efficient way of working up to different ships as a trader) was:
Sidey
Hauler
T6
T7
Python (I'm still at Python, don't want a T9 due to the sluggish nature of the beast).
>Asp - exploring toy
>Vulture - combat toy

The T7 is still there as a cheaper way of getting to a decent trader/combat multi-role ship. Even as a trader I wanted to be able to mix things up a bit. I have a Vulture to do a bit of combat in but love the fact I can trade in my Python, and now if I want to I can use the same ship to blow a few ships up as well. It took a lot of grinding in my T7 to get to it but when I did I was pretty much sick of ferrying crap around the galaxy and this lets me mix it up a bit when I want to.

Without it, in the state it's in now, I probably wouldn't still be playing.

It's a nice gateway ship to getting out there and heating up your lasers now and then. It's only after doing a bit of combat in the Python that I decided to get a vulture as a toy.

Like others here I played the original Elite and was quite happy with the one ship we were given. Frontier onwards gave us more choice but even then I settled on a single ship after a while. To have this many options in such a well crafted universe is great if you ask me. Can't wait to see what mission improvements we'll get over time to enrich things further.

 

[Kastor]

I get what everyone that wants a change is saying, that dedicated ships should be better at the role they're designed for but in this case it is IMHO as it's cheaper to kit out a decent T7 than a decent Python so it is right for its role.

My organic progress (without using excel or any other calculator to work out a more efficient way of working up to different ships as a trader) was:
Sidey
Hauler
T6
T7
Python (I'm still at Python, don't want a T9 due to the sluggish nature of the beast).
>Asp - exploring toy
>Vulture - combat toy

The T7 is still there as a cheaper way of getting to a decent trader/combat multi-role ship. Even as a trader I wanted to be able to mix things up a bit. I have a Vulture to do a bit of combat in but love the fact I can trade in my Python, and now if I want to I can use the same ship to blow a few ships up as well. It took a lot of grinding in my T7 to get to it but when I did I was pretty much sick of ferrying crap around the galaxy and this lets me mix it up a bit when I want to.

Without it, in the state it's in now, I probably wouldn't still be playing.

It's a nice gateway ship to getting out there and heating up your lasers now and then. It's only after doing a bit of combat in the Python that I decided to get a vulture as a toy.

Like others here I played the original Elite and was quite happy with the one ship we were given. Frontier onwards gave us more choice but even then I settled on a single ship after a while. To have this many options in such a well crafted universe is great if you ask me. Can't wait to see what mission improvements we'll get over time to enrich things further.

Uhh... that's a sub optimal path. The optimal one involves a lot more multirole.
Sidy
Hauler then straight to Adder
Cobra (no hauler on it's level)
T-6 and then a short time to ASP
T-7 then straight to Clipper (if imp rank)
Python Kit it for combat and trading, it can do both at the same time if you don't PvP. Why bother with the inferior vulture?

Do you need excel to work out this path? no not really, this is the "organic" path for most players and that's the problem.

 

[defekt]

ED has a problem with multi-role ships being able to do better than so-called dedicated ships in similar price brackets.

In short: FD kind of goofed.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Well, a fully kitted FDL is nowhere close to the cost of a combat fitted python.

Yet the FDL has similar combat performances, so I really don't see what you are taking about.

 

[mrspoonsi]

I have seen a python fitted with prismatics and loaded fully with SCB tank fire from 2 clippers and 2 fdl (focused) for about 8 minutes....does not seem right to me this level of tankiness (2 ships yes, but not the full wing).

Oh yes, couple to the fact that the python is no longer mass-locked by either clipper or fdl, and it makes for very boring fights with them - 10 seconds to go SC after shields down.

 

[LeetNoob]

It's not what 'role' the ship has, it's what it costs. People are comparing the Python (mine has over 200 mill invested in it) to something that costs considerably less and wonders why it out performs them. OP compared a Python (56 million) to a T7 (17 million). Another pointless nerf thread.

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I have seen a python fitted with prismatics and loaded fully with SCB tank fire from 2 clippers and 2 fdl (focused) for about 8 minutes....does not seem right to me this level of tankiness (2 ships yes, but not the full wing).

As someone who flies an A kitted Python with prismatic shields and laden with SCB's I can certainly tell you this is impossible, please don't exaggerate stuff because you don't like the fact the a more expensive ship is better than yours.

 

[xondk]

Type 7- 17.5 Million
Python- 57 Million

This game is set up entirely around balance based on ship cost. Logic and ship roles aren't the concern.
.

Wait, what so you are saying a 'better' ship shouldn't be more expensive? because last I checked if something is objectively better then something else it is going to be more expensive? or maybe I missed something? so that seems quite balanced? I am confused.

 

[Metalstardust]

no no no no no no no

 

[xondk]

I have seen a python fitted with prismatics and loaded fully with SCB tank fire from 2 clippers and 2 fdl (focused) for about 8 minutes....does not seem right to me this level of tankiness (2 ships yes, but not the full wing).

Oh yes, couple to the fact that the python is no longer mass-locked by either clipper or fdl, and it makes for very boring fights with them - 10 seconds to go SC after shields down.

8 Minutes? uh.....no. Plain and simply not true.

 

[Mephane]

I have seen a python fitted with prismatics and loaded fully with SCB tank fire from 2 clippers and 2 fdl (focused) for about 8 minutes....does not seem right to me this level of tankiness (2 ships yes, but not the full wing).

An Anaconda could do it. Clipper could do this. This is not unique to the Python. This is an issue with SCB stacking and spamming, which FD already said they are going to address in multiple ways.

Edit: Several posters above have also pointed out that the 8 minutes figure is completely unrealistic to begin with. Whatever the actual number might be, my point stands, tanking through SCBs is not a unique feature of the Python and an issue with SCBs themselves, not any one ship.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Type 7- 17.5 Million
Python- 57 Million

This game is set up entirely around balance based on ship cost. Logic and ship roles aren't the concern.


Edit-
I'd say the better comparison would be the Python and the Type 9. The Python and Type 9 are within the same tier, while the Type 7 is in the next tier down.


Personally, I'd like to see some better balancing done around ship roles, but it's not the way the design team are heading at all.

I'd go further and say the "balancing" on ships is completely and I wonder what the meetings must have been like when they were talking about how the ships were going to work.

 

[CorvusDove]

I'd go further and say the "balancing" on ships is completely and I wonder what the meetings must have been like when they were talking about how the ships were going to work.

"How do we make this work when we're starting with a model that was designed for linear progression in the 1980s?"

This is a subject on which I feel slack may be cut.

 

[Arithon]

It was never time to Nerf the Python and to alter it (a multi-role combat ship) on the basis that it compares too favourably to a single role, low cost trade ship, is a fairly unrealistic premise.

It's like saying Ferrari's should be speed limited to 30mph because they shouldn't be allowed to go faster than Smart cars. But remain the same cost. As dictated by Smart car owners.

No.

 

[hodxer]

Nerf, Nerf, Nerf....Why do people want to nerf everything?
May you have some positive thoughts about buffing Type-7?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

It was never time to Nerf the Python and to alter it (a multi-role combat ship) on the basis that it compares too favourably to a single role, low cost trade ship, is a fairly unrealistic premise.

It's like saying Ferrari's should be speed limited to 30mph because they shouldn't be allowed to go faster than Smart cars. But remain the same cost. As dictated by Smart car owners.

No.

It also compares as superior to a similar cost single role combat ship.

The internals on the Python are too good and need to be taken down a notch, and the FDL needs to be brought up to be ahead of the FAS. Right now the FAS sits between the Python and FDL in fights, which is okay because combat ships are supposed to punch above their weight. In the same way that an Asp and a Viper is a toss-up, so too should the FAS and the Python be a toss-up. The FDL should be hands down better just like the majority of the other combat ships (don't forget that the dropship is a personnel transport that was put in the game 2 years too early) instead of struggling to be relevant.

 

[LeetNoob]

Nerf, Nerf, Nerf....Why do people want to nerf everything?
May you have some positive thoughts about buffing Type-7?

Or maybe, if they want a dedicated trade ship to outperform the multi-role Python at trading they should look in the Pythons tier, and buy a T-9.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Nerf, Nerf, Nerf....Why do people want to nerf everything?
May you have some positive thoughts about buffing Type-7?

The Type 7 is where it needs to be, the Python is the outlier.

 

[LeetNoob]

It also compares as superior to a similar cost single role combat ship.

The internals on the Python are too good and need to be taken down a notch, and the FDL needs to be brought up to be ahead of the FAS. Right now the FAS sits between the Python and FDL in fights, which is okay because combat ships are supposed to punch above their weight. In the same way that an Asp and a Viper is a toss-up, so too should the FAS and the Python be a toss-up. The FDL should be hands down better just like the majority of the other combat ships (don't forget that the dropship is a personnel transport that was put in the game 2 years too early) instead of struggling to be relevant.

This isn't a problem with the Python, it's a problem that lot's of internal slots and spare power are an advantage in combat more than low profile, speed and manueverabilty it's a problem with the design of the in game combat.

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The Type 7 is where it needs to be, the Python is the outlier.

 

[LawHunter]

I spent a while in the type 7 and it was not fun. Get the clipper. The speed makes docking and getting away from pirates quicker.

The Python can not run away very well from pirates. When you get enough money to afford one: don't buy it. You need to have 80 or 90 million to upgrade it so you can survive.

 

[mrspoonsi]

An Anaconda could do it. Clipper could do this. This is not unique to the Python. This is an issue with SCB stacking and spamming, which FD already said they are going to address in multiple ways.

A clipper could not do it, it would not even sustain close fire from 2 FDL, even with 6A SCB at its disposal.