No, sorry but it doesn't. This has been proven multiple times.
The SCB (Shield Cell Bank) Thread
- Thread starter OnePercent
- Start date
almostpilot
Banned
Not enough. Wait for January at 2.1, when Anacondas and Pythons will get another NERF. Them Michael will be completely happy
I appreciate what FD is trying to do with SCBs but reading all the info from the Q&A just strikes me as an over-designed fix. Why not just remove the ammo function of SCBs/limit the amount of equipped modules to 1 or 2 and treat it as a rechargeable battery? It would then depend on pips to SYS to recharge it rather than having to deal with any of this bizarre heat/module powering balancing. In MMO terms it essentially changes a pot to a cooldown (with the cooldown being dependent on power distrib management). Has the potential to turn fights defensive once you pop your SCB and need to recharge instead of overcomplicating everything with heat sinks and module warm ups. Much better IMO.
In case anyone wants an eye-meltingly good read on damage processing and calculations, here's the place!...
Discussion with Mark Allen on damage and defenses
Since 1.4? My experience vs NPC anaconda is that their hull goes to a much much lower value before their PP hits 0% than in 1.3, so the way armour and internals works has not remained static (in particular penetration depth bug having been fixed). I'm not sure if that old wisdom remains true.
From earlier in the thread - the 'delay switching on SCB'. If you are firing off SCB more than once every 20 seconds (the time it is suggested it will take to power on a second SCB unit after exhausting a first) then you are probably in the wrong fight already.
wings vs wings? Well if armour is buffed the time you have to retreat and bug out in a larger ship should also be greater. One large ship vs a wing of 4 small should be a problem. 4 large vs 4 large with tactics causing individual ships to have to tactically retreat would seem fine to me. It also favours the relatively cheaper combat-specific ships over the multirole - which for group vs group combat scenarios may be no bad thing. In that scenario you should be flying only that which you can afford to lose, really.
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After reading and re-reading the dev responses I am really struggling to understand the logic behind the changes. They say the goal is to make the big ships less invincible, but:
1) what would even be the point of having a big ship then? Why do I have a slow and extremely expensive ship if a small ship is going to be more effective in pvp combat?
2) If the main change is the heat generation, then that punishes the small ships, which have less utility slots and less heat efficient power plants.
3) Adding a boot-up time punishes skilled players who can manage their ship power while also fighting. As other have pointed out, this is one of the hardest things to do well in pvp and gives you a decided advantage.
So I look at these changes and it makes me think the following: Is FD trying to make SCB bad so everyone switches to hull-reinforcements?
If you have to have heat sinks to use SCB now, and you can't even switch SCB instantly in combat, then what the freak is the point of SCB? Why not just stack boosters and hull reinforcement instead of bothering with heat sinks and SCB, only to not be able to use SCB?
My second thought: are these changes going to punish independent pilots? Right now if you get interdicted by a wing of 4, its no big deal because you can use your SCB to keep your shields up as you high-wake away. With these changes, is it going to be easier to kill people as they run away?
There are a lot of murderers and griefers in open play, and they don't fight fair. It would be dumb if 1.5 buffed "ganking" because it makes it easy to lose your shields. The way it is now, you only die if you make a mistake (or you get focused hard by competent opponents). In 1.5, I wonder, "am I going to die because I'm flying solo and the griefers are in a wing?" Because if that's the case I don't want to play this game anymore.
Is FD just catering to noobs who don't even pvp when they came up with this SCB change? I don't get it at all.
It seems to punish players who have expensive ships and are able to manage their power while fighting.
FD please clarify your proposed changes, and in the future don't release your specific changes until you can at least give us some numbers. Right now it's just pure speculation and hypotheticals, leading to confusion and worry.
1) what would even be the point of having a big ship then? Why do I have a slow and extremely expensive ship if a small ship is going to be more effective in pvp combat?
2) If the main change is the heat generation, then that punishes the small ships, which have less utility slots and less heat efficient power plants.
3) Adding a boot-up time punishes skilled players who can manage their ship power while also fighting. As other have pointed out, this is one of the hardest things to do well in pvp and gives you a decided advantage.
So I look at these changes and it makes me think the following: Is FD trying to make SCB bad so everyone switches to hull-reinforcements?
If you have to have heat sinks to use SCB now, and you can't even switch SCB instantly in combat, then what the freak is the point of SCB? Why not just stack boosters and hull reinforcement instead of bothering with heat sinks and SCB, only to not be able to use SCB?
My second thought: are these changes going to punish independent pilots? Right now if you get interdicted by a wing of 4, its no big deal because you can use your SCB to keep your shields up as you high-wake away. With these changes, is it going to be easier to kill people as they run away?
There are a lot of murderers and griefers in open play, and they don't fight fair. It would be dumb if 1.5 buffed "ganking" because it makes it easy to lose your shields. The way it is now, you only die if you make a mistake (or you get focused hard by competent opponents). In 1.5, I wonder, "am I going to die because I'm flying solo and the griefers are in a wing?" Because if that's the case I don't want to play this game anymore.
Is FD just catering to noobs who don't even pvp when they came up with this SCB change? I don't get it at all.
It seems to punish players who have expensive ships and are able to manage their power while fighting.
FD please clarify your proposed changes, and in the future don't release your specific changes until you can at least give us some numbers. Right now it's just pure speculation and hypotheticals, leading to confusion and worry.
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I understand brother you like to get involved in a bigger scale of fighting and totally respect that, that is why I mention is just my opinion. That being said, I gave up on wing fighting long time ago due to instance problems, whenever I was looking for the group of bad guys with my mates we will run into that problem every time especially when you wanted so bad to get revenge.With all due respect Jesse, some of us in pvp guilds love to get involved in 4v4, 8v8 (or more!) battles etc. They are brilliant fun in my opinion. The leader will select a primary target which will be pounded by 4-8 guys. You can guess what happens to that target
In regards to 1:1 duel this may be a good change but in regards to group fights maybe not. We need to test it and get feedback to FD.
Fly safe Cmdr o7
However, I'm willing to participate wing battles in Beta to test the new ships and SCB changes. Just let me know if you need a hand.
Yet another post about SCB and Early crafting comming to ED 2.0
I am going to try and not make this a rant or complaint about design decisions, nor should this topic should be.
On the topic of crafting and altering ship components, its been said you intended to let players craft munitions and or reload certain weapons consumables. What I would like to know is how they see/intend players interact with it.
- Should crafting/reloading be done normally at a station or out of combat in space or mid combat after issuing a few quick commands and you have more ammo for your guns?
- Can you horde supplies and do the majority of your own ammo resupplying (similar to the way we use fuel scoops and buy fuel at space stations)?
- As far as SCB's is it your intention to make it more appropriate to say that its ideally best to be used it in between fights, instead of mid combat?
I am going to try and not make this a rant or complaint about design decisions, nor should this topic should be.
On the topic of crafting and altering ship components, its been said you intended to let players craft munitions and or reload certain weapons consumables. What I would like to know is how they see/intend players interact with it.
- Should crafting/reloading be done normally at a station or out of combat in space or mid combat after issuing a few quick commands and you have more ammo for your guns?
- Can you horde supplies and do the majority of your own ammo resupplying (similar to the way we use fuel scoops and buy fuel at space stations)?
- As far as SCB's is it your intention to make it more appropriate to say that its ideally best to be used it in between fights, instead of mid combat?
Whiny minority PvP? You need to get your game up then, because I never used more one shield cell bank against NPC, if you are losing your shields that means your biting more than you can chew.
These are good changes.
Michael speaks the truth. Loading up slow ass freighters with hundreds of tons of cells is not what combat should be about.
Michael speaks the truth. Loading up slow ass freighters with hundreds of tons of cells is not what combat should be about.
Do the FDevs actually still play the game ?
I seriously wonder the developers actually play the game for real when it relates to some decisions about game balance and enjoyment.
I can't see that many people even bother with SCBs on the smaller ships - you can just run and hide and rebuild your shields somewhere outside the area where you lost them, or in SC.
For larger ships they are only needed because of the ridiculously slow recharge time when you lose your shields. If you have a large ship like an Anaconda you might as well just dock and leave your ship alone for 30 minutes if SCBs didn't exist in game. BORING !!!
Of course you could buy some SCBs, undock, recharge once they're reanabled, and fire off a few more to refill the shields, before docking to sort out your ship again for the next engagement. The damn things don't even recharge when you're offline. Talk about immersion breaking.
The whole concept of shields is seriously flawed:
I find it amazing that the original Elite got the concept so right and here we are nearly a year since release and it's still so badly implemented.
The way this should work is:
Penalising us with heat, adding a delay before they can be fired etc. is not fixing the problem.
I seriously wonder the developers actually play the game for real when it relates to some decisions about game balance and enjoyment.
I can't see that many people even bother with SCBs on the smaller ships - you can just run and hide and rebuild your shields somewhere outside the area where you lost them, or in SC.
For larger ships they are only needed because of the ridiculously slow recharge time when you lose your shields. If you have a large ship like an Anaconda you might as well just dock and leave your ship alone for 30 minutes if SCBs didn't exist in game. BORING !!!
Of course you could buy some SCBs, undock, recharge once they're reanabled, and fire off a few more to refill the shields, before docking to sort out your ship again for the next engagement. The damn things don't even recharge when you're offline. Talk about immersion breaking.
The whole concept of shields is seriously flawed:
- Large class ones take huge amounts of power but actually recharge at the same energy rate as small ones.
- Boosters affect your overall shield maximum, absorb power, but don't actually boost the recharge rate.
- SCBs drop energy into your shields, but however they're implemented only serve to reduce the otherwise boring wait for larger ships.
- Charge rate is unaffected by energy diverted to SYS, but magically the amount of damage done to shields is reduced when you have higher power flow to SYS.
I find it amazing that the original Elite got the concept so right and here we are nearly a year since release and it's still so badly implemented.
The way this should work is:
- Charge rate is all about how much energy the things use.
- Charge rate should vary with with power diverted to SYS
- Shield boosters should boost the charge rate (hence they use power), but not shield maximum strength.
- Shield Class should affect the overall shield capacity.
- Shield Rating should affect the overall capacity and charge rate slightly, coupled with the obvious weight/integrity tradeoffs.
- Shield cells should affect overall capacity, and therefore shield strength, but you should be limited to one slot.
- You should be able to instantly recharge your shields to full capacity when docked. I don't mind paying a price for this similar to fuel and ammo, but it needs fixing.
Penalising us with heat, adding a delay before they can be fired etc. is not fixing the problem.
This is exactly it. I'll bet that 99% of the time, the fight is over for the first to lose shields, it's a fundamental design flaw in this game.
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These changes make no sense, I really question whether the balance team ever does pvp? Like real, wing v wing pvp? not just a pretend duel. The current meta is wing warfare, that's how most pvp takes place.
If you can't spam SCB how are you supposed to survive multiple people attacking you at once? Being able to tank several people at once is a SKILL. Managing your SYS and ENG pips, turning on/off your banks, remembering to use SCB and chaff, being able to high-wake quickly, those are the skills that will keep you alive in pvp. What is the point of even doing pvp in this game if I can die and have to pay X millions because I am outnumbered? Not because I made a mistake, but simply because I am outnumbered?
Also what is the point of having an expensive ship if they aren't the best for pvp? Seems to me like Micheal is mad that he can't 1v1 an anaconda in a viper? Anyone else get this feeling?
I don't know any pvpers who like this SCB change. It just seems like a change to cater to the gankers and murderers to be honest, so that they can 4v1 people more easily.
If you can't spam SCB how are you supposed to survive multiple people attacking you at once? Being able to tank several people at once is a SKILL. Managing your SYS and ENG pips, turning on/off your banks, remembering to use SCB and chaff, being able to high-wake quickly, those are the skills that will keep you alive in pvp. What is the point of even doing pvp in this game if I can die and have to pay X millions because I am outnumbered? Not because I made a mistake, but simply because I am outnumbered?
Also what is the point of having an expensive ship if they aren't the best for pvp? Seems to me like Micheal is mad that he can't 1v1 an anaconda in a viper? Anyone else get this feeling?
I don't know any pvpers who like this SCB change. It just seems like a change to cater to the gankers and murderers to be honest, so that they can 4v1 people more easily.
For ships with excess power will this make too much difference? - have one SCB booting while another is active, then once the second boots switch the first on and off to reboot. As long as you don't burn a full bank in 20 secs (boot time) you should always have one active and can stack as many as currently on-board, just more micro-management.
It will hurt power hungry, fighting-oriented ships (FDL, Vulture) as they can only run 1 bank at a time, while multi-role ships (Python, Anaconda) should be fine.
It will hurt power hungry, fighting-oriented ships (FDL, Vulture) as they can only run 1 bank at a time, while multi-role ships (Python, Anaconda) should be fine.
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Battles involving wings means larger ships will now die and die quick, simple as that. PVP has been battered by this nerf.
You can't even fire one SCB without it completely frying your ship now. Whoever worked on this had no clue whatsover.
Anyone who ends up fighting in a wing knows that when you get three or more ships firing down on you, SCBs and ship/energy management are an absolute necessity and this nerf screws it completely.
*angry*
You can't even fire one SCB without it completely frying your ship now. Whoever worked on this had no clue whatsover.
Anyone who ends up fighting in a wing knows that when you get three or more ships firing down on you, SCBs and ship/energy management are an absolute necessity and this nerf screws it completely.
*angry*
You can have multiple shield cells banks on multi-role ships but they still have the same limitations: module power-up of about 20 seconds plus the time it takes for a shield cell to boost the shields. If firing multiple shield cells one after the other, there will be enormous heat generation which can cause malfunction to the shields and even cause damages to the hull, according to Michael Brookes. So, I don't think that Python and Anaconda will get away with it.
- - - Updated - - -
If you have read Michael Brookes' comments, you would know that these changes were based on what Frontier was seeing from the data they collect:
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Indeed, currently firing just one single SCB fries your ship and causes module damage and on a large ship this barely charges your shields.
So if you're getting focussed, which you always will being in a larger ship, you're only option is to leave straight away or die and go pay the huge rebuy costs that these ships have.
So, basically this nerf makes larger ships pretty much useless atm. We're currently looking at yet more trading vessles. Hardly what they were being sold as...
