Should Elite Dangerous add clans/player factions in the future

[JosiahD]

Except it's all already happening already. At least with guild flags you'd have warning before the interdiction.

Not necessarily. An interdiction comes from behind. You can ony identify the CMDR if you face them first. Guild flags presumably wouldn't appear until you've at least faced their ship long enough for the initial scan, which would close the range.

 

[tawittle]

I voted yes, but I don't think Player groups are really what ED needs.

Really what we need is a universe-wide in game chat.

 

[Roybe]

Many games continued to exist while hinging on old-school, anti-social players before dying and never reaching their full potential. Because they alienated much of their current and potential customers who want a deep sandbox with massively multiplayer.

This is the problem. People have an understanding of what that 'potential' is. The devs disagree with the communities ideas of this in some very fundamental ways. One of them is that 'pew pew' PvP will never be a way to move a yardstick within this game. They only way to move those is through the collection of PvE trophies. Another issue is the Open vs. one...again, there will never be a change to the modes...if there is, it will be incremental in detail...not some huge fundamental change.

Finally, the problems of ownership...mainly stagnation and segmentation of space...is something that will not occur. The existence of any group in the game...and its influence within their sphere of operations will always be at the whim of the community at large. The best way to understand this is this: if your group is so good at the game that they have become a Power...you lose all control of that group and it becomes property of the game and the players of PP.

 

[Garbarrage]

There seems to be some who think this is synonymous with open v solo. I'd like to be able to play in a private group with wingmates. Sure, maybe Open too, but it's more about the social aspect of it for me. Seeing as how wings are limited to 4, and there's no guarantee that 2 wings of 4 will end up in the same instance, I can't see what the "griefing" fear is about.

 

[JosiahD]

Exactly, ALL PLAYERS. MEANING the ones who DO want to have clans / factions. You guys are so paranoid about these clans / factions that it's hilarious. It's as if you guys feel forced to join them if they ever popped up? Have you guys actually thought of the possibilities of such a system implemented into a game that is quite literally the size of a bloody galaxy? How about giving these factions a player limit for example? that eliminates the threat of over-populace in one clan/ faction. How about giving them unoccupied systems for them to fight for, instead of interfering with federation / imperial / general powerplay areas??? Actually, who said that these factions/clans had to have any kind of control of said systems? The main problem is, is that there is no end-game in elite. You grind credits until you get a late game ship, and then what? You have a fancy ship, and what your going to do with it is go out and do... more bounty hunting? more trading? big whoop, i might aswell go play star citizen.

Some of you guys are so scared about the whole clan thingo and territories and what not, and you think you'll be interdicted at any given moment by hundreds of enemy clan members who have 'beef' with you. can I quickly remind you guys that this game has a average 4000 player base on an AVERAGE day. On bad days, the game does lower than 2000 a day, so almost immediately your chances of ever getting caught in their territory is SO limited.

It feels so rare to see other people in this game that it isn't funny, this game has a HUGE PvP and player communication issue, dis-regarding anything towards improving it is only going to make the pace of this game slower. Because i don't know about you guys, but i'm bored af playing by myself, and the majority of my friends don't want to go near the game because of it's price tag, and because of its empty game-play. Like cmon, this game is 100% grind trading / bounty hunting, get a really cool end game ship then... what? Like honestly tell me, what am i supposed to do once I get my Python / fdl, or any other end game ship? You want me to play powerplay? so pretty much fight against npc's, or go to another side of the controlled system to drop of "special cargo" which i don't even get paid for? rofl, nah.

This game lacks end game, it lacks PvP, it lacks player communication and it lacks the core foundations of MMORPG. I wouldn't consider this game an MMO anymore, it's too empty. I see what, a maximum of 3-4 people a day now? The chances of them talking? probably about 10%, because they probably havent figured out a way to use that chat system properly yet as well.

rant over.

On the contrary, it's not simply the idea of clans/guilds that's the problem. There are indeed positives to that sort of play .......... for those that like and want that sort of play. The extension of guild play that I object to is the inevitable domination/territorial style of gameplay that follows. If implementing guild playstyles in Elite means that I then HAVE to be in a guild just to survive, let alone some core system that some upstart of a guild has decided is THEIR territory so I can't go there - well, sorry but I will never support that in Elite. Guild play, in the domination/territorial gameplay form some seem to want, in effect usurps the in-game constructs of the major powers (Federation, Empire, Alliance), minor powers (ie the Powerplay powers) and minor in-system factions. WE, as players, don't own anything in this game other than our ship (or collection of ships). Even the player-created factions we have now are not ours - they are an NPC faction inserted at our 'request' that we can align with and support (and hopefully elevate to minor power status), but we don't own/control them. Improved guild tools, such as communication and coordination tools are one thing, but going beyond that though to guild ownership of powers, factions, assets and territory? No thanks.

 

[Faybs]

I'm ok with the idea, I don't believe in telling other people how they can play (as long as it's within the rules) and if the whole thing devolves into dayZ we still have Mobius.

 

[Cosmo]

On the contrary, it's not simply the idea of clans/guilds that's the problem. There are indeed positives to that sort of play .......... for those that like and want that sort of play. The extension of guild play that I object to is the inevitable domination/territorial style of gameplay that follows.

There's way too many solar systems out there that players will never visit. So enough space for guilds to have their own outpost, station, domain, even planets, solar systems.

If implementing guild playstyles in Elite means that I then HAVE to be in a guild just to survive, let alone some core system that some upstart of a guild has decided is THEIR territory so I can't go there - well, sorry but I will never support that in Elite.

Participation with a guild is voluntary. The NPC powers already claim domains, and players can choose to participate with Powerplay.

Improved guild tools, such as communication and coordination tools are one thing, but going beyond that though to guild ownership of powers, factions, assets and territory? No thanks.

You don't have to be in a guild if you don't like it. Don't block other players from doing that if they do like it.

 

[Faybs]

The extension of guild play that I object to is the inevitable domination/territorial style of gameplay that follows. If implementing guild playstyles in Elite means that I then HAVE to be in a guild just to survive, let alone some core system that some upstart of a guild has decided is THEIR territory so I can't go there - well, sorry but I will never support that in Elite.

Those are my exact concerns. As I said, thank heaven for Mobius.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Don't play if you don't like it, and don't block other players from doing that if they like it.

That's an interesting piece of advice to those players who are, presumably, quite content playing the game at the moment, with respect to what they should do if a contentious feature set that is being requested by some and resisted by others were to be implemented.

 

[Faybs]

There's way too many solar systems out there that players will never visit. So enough space for guilds to have their own outpost, station, domain, even planets, solar systems.

What happens when a player guild takes over Robigo and claims it as their exclusive turf?

 

[Roybe]

There seems to be some who think this is synonymous with open v solo. I'd like to be able to play in a private group with wingmates. Sure, maybe Open too, but it's more about the social aspect of it for me. Seeing as how wings are limited to 4, and there's no guarantee that 2 wings of 4 will end up in the same instance, I can't see what the "griefing" fear is about.

Create a private group and play away with friends!

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What happens when a player guild takes over Robigo and claims it as their exclusive turf?

Everyone flies in and out in private mode...no problem.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

That's an interesting piece of advice to those players who are, presumably, quite content playing the game at the moment, with respect to what they should do if a contentious feature set that is being requested by some and resisted by others were to be implemented.

Like Open PvE? ;P

Ultimately, the response 'play or not play' is all that can be made to these 'contentious issues' if they are implemented. Obviously, it is silly requesting things the devs have said will never be in the game. The devs have said no control will ever be granted to a player. Regardless of what player groups do...the modes guarantee this. So anyone whinging about the 'Eve clans' problem does not understand, or believe the devs, stated stance on this. Just like the people that request 'privately built and held outposts/stations'. Not going to happen.

In the end, there will be player groups and support within the game. It is a fact that the devs are working on this. It is also a fact that the devs have stated these implementation will be 'truly E: D' in nature...they are going to incorporate these changes in a way that is compliant with the above statements.

 

[Chris Majere]

What happens when a player guild takes over Robigo and claims it as their exclusive turf?

Robigo aside, what if players couldn't take over systems in the existing bubble? Only outside of it. Would that calm your fears?

 

[JosiahD]

There's way too many solar systems out there that players will never visit. So enough space for guilds to have their own outpost, station, domain, even planets, solar systems.



Participation with a guild is voluntary. The NPC powers already claim domains, and players can choose to participate with Powerplay.




Don't play if you don't like it, and don't block other players from doing that if they like it.

Your first point: Except the domination-focused guilds will want, nay, insist on the core systems where the bulk of the playerbase is. Yes, there's more than enough space to spread out (great for exploration guilds), except the domination-focused guilds won't want that because they want to compete for territory, to dominate other players and guilds (bad for trading guilds who need to operate in the same regions). You can't engage in that guild conflict so effectively from 2000 Ly out.
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On your second point: Participation in guild play will be essential in open mode IF guild play were to be implemented in a domination-style. Give guilds ownership of stations and territory and they will fight for them. That conflict inevitably affects anyone and everyone trying to play in the affected space. As that will inevitably also include core systems, with the current crime and (all but non-existent) punishment mechanics no player would be able to play in open mode and hope to survive in the affected systems WITHOUT joining one of the guilds in question (for protection). In such a circumstance, yes there's benefits for those who actually want guild play (they get the conflict they want), but none for those who don't (they're all but forced to participate in a play style they don't want, or have to forego the open experience and have to play in solo or group instead - so they don't get to play 'their way' as a result of guilds). The difference with Powerplay is that if one chooses not to participate, there's no impact. In fact, it's when one chooses to participate that the main impact on freedom of movement occurs - you become hostile in other territory. Within a guild-based domination/territorial play style, a player's freedom of movement is impacted regardless of whether they join a guild or not. They are either threatened with destruction because they're in someone else's territory, or they move to areas not occupied by such guilds or switch mode - and again they don't get to play 'their way' as a result of guilds (at least those guilds focused on territory and conflict, that is).
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On your third point, see above. You cannot implement a domination/territorial style guild-based gameplay without impacting every player. Even those in solo would have to deal with the impacts on the BGS that result from guild conflict in open. Not to mention that guilds in open will inevitably gripe that their efforts in open could be undermined without opposition in solo and private groups (already happens in relation to CGs) - I for one don't want to then have to deal with the 'solo is ruining our guild play/territorial control' rubbish posts.
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What people advocating guilds have to remember is that you are trying to introduce a gameplay style that is NOT in Elite: Dangerous BY DESIGN. It was a deliberate decision to exclude guild ownership of in-game assets and territory, and it remains so. While I would agree with improved communication and coordination tools (eg improved chat), I for one will never support the territorial style of play here - there are other games for that.

 

[Cadoc]

What happens when a player guild takes over Robigo and claims it as their exclusive turf?

Players have already tried to enforce blockades on systems, including Robigo. The same thing would happen as has happened in the past - a bunch of PvP, some people upset about being blown up, lots of people sneaking past due to instancing or in Solo. So basically not a lot would happen, because the game has absolutely no tools to enforce ownership.

I think the answer to the player group question is an obvious one. A year has passed and ED does not have appreciably more content than it had at release. Lacking developed content, it only makes sense to let players create their own through player groups, as they have done already. IMO the anti-guild advocates had their day, and as time goes on their arguments are shown to be more and more hollow.

 

[StuF]

Yes but if guilds were allowed and the players - OWNED or CAPTURED the station in whatever system it wouldnt matter if you were in SOLO/PRIVATE/OPEN as it would permiate all three instancing types
Therefore ruining the game for all others who didnt want it - imagine if Shinrarta Desrah was captured and held by a Guilded Player group!

Never going to happen - play EVE if thats your thing!

 

[Hathol]

Players have already tried to enforce blockades on systems, including Robigo. The same thing would happen as has happened in the past - a bunch of PvP, some people upset about being blown up, lots of people sneaking past due to instancing or in Solo. So basically not a lot would happen, because the game has absolutely no tools to enforce ownership.

I think the answer to the player group question is an obvious one. A year has passed and ED does not have appreciably more content than it had at release. Lacking developed content, it only makes sense to let players create their own through player groups, as they have done already. IMO the anti-guild advocates had their day, and as time goes on their arguments are shown to be more and more hollow.

I like this.

I still can't understand the people who want to have a huge online space game, but not have any social interactions... basically nothing like what it would be like if humans populated space.. i mean the storyline of elite... i mean... yea..

 

[Roybe]

Yes but if guilds were allowed and the players - OWNED or CAPTURED the station in whatever system it wouldnt matter if you were in SOLO/PRIVATE/OPEN as it would permiate all three instancing types
Therefore ruining the game for all others who didnt want it - imagine if Shinrarta Desrah was captured and held by a Guilded Player group!

Never going to happen - play EVE if thats your thing!

If 'ifs and buts' were fruits and nuts everyday would be Christmas.

Guilds are already in the game...and the devs have clearly stated they cannot 'own or capture' an asset. Only maintain the asset through influence. This will NEVER change! It is integral to the design of the game. There is no evolution of this as it would break the game completely!

Shinrarta has already been influenced by the community..and IIRC the Dark Wheel faction has been pushed into the system. (one of the lore based factions was pushed into or out of Shinrarta by the community during early days..anyway).

 

[Roybe]

No, clans are rushy, grindy, raidy, cliquey, neckbeardy, munchkiny borefests that baffle new players

Oh Jonty...say it ain't so!

 

[Chris Majere]

By reading some of the posts from some of the anti player guilds folks, it makes me remember a nice quote I heard once:

"If you are looking for reasons not to do something, you'll always find some."

 

[Roybe]

Your first point: Except the domination-focused guilds will want, nay, insist on the core systems where the bulk of the playerbase is. Yes, there's more than enough space to spread out (great for exploration guilds), except the domination-focused guilds won't want that because they want to compete for territory, to dominate other players and guilds (bad for trading guilds who need to operate in the same regions). You can't engage in that guild conflict so effectively from 2000 Ly out.
.
On your second point: Participation in guild play will be essential in open mode IF guild play were to be implemented in a domination-style. Give guilds ownership of stations and territory and they will fight for them. That conflict inevitably affects anyone and everyone trying to play in the affected space. As that will inevitably also include core systems, with the current crime and (all but non-existent) punishment mechanics no player would be able to play in open mode and hope to survive in the affected systems WITHOUT joining one of the guilds in question (for protection). In such a circumstance, yes there's benefits for those who actually want guild play (they get the conflict they want), but none for those who don't (they're all but forced to participate in a play style they don't want, or have to forego the open experience and have to play in solo or group instead - so they don't get to play 'their way' as a result of guilds). The difference with Powerplay is that if one chooses not to participate, there's no impact. In fact, it's when one chooses to participate that the main impact on freedom of movement occurs - you become hostile in other territory. Within a guild-based domination/territorial play style, a player's freedom of movement is impacted regardless of whether they join a guild or not. They are either threatened with destruction because they're in someone else's territory, or they move to areas not occupied by such guilds or switch mode - and again they don't get to play 'their way' as a result of guilds (at least those guilds focused on territory and conflict, that is).
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On your third point, see above. You cannot implement a domination/territorial style guild-based gameplay without impacting every player. Even those in solo would have to deal with the impacts on the BGS that result from guild conflict in open. Not to mention that guilds in open will inevitably gripe that their efforts in open could be undermined without opposition in solo and private groups (already happens in relation to CGs) - I for one don't want to then have to deal with the 'solo is ruining our guild play/territorial control' rubbish posts.
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What people advocating guilds have to remember is that you are trying to introduce a gameplay style that is NOT in Elite: Dangerous BY DESIGN. It was a deliberate decision to exclude guild ownership of in-game assets and territory, and it remains so. While I would agree with improved communication and coordination tools (eg improved chat), I for one will never support the territorial style of play here - there are other games for that.

Insist away then! Domination oriented groups can expand, influence, Role Play blockades, and any number of other things. They can demand, whine, cajole, heck, even over run these forums with requests for all the goodies their hearts desire...but I can absolutley guarantee them one thing..asset ownership that will block others from playing is DOA, just like any requests to change the modes (the open vs. demands for fairness...better play for PvP...demand for an Open PvE mode) are NEVER going to be considered by the devs. There is no 'evolution' of these ideas..nor wholesale changes going to occur.