Should Elite Dangerous add clans/player factions in the future

[Louella]

what would clans add to the game ?

There are four things you can do in Elite.

Scan uncharted planets.
Move things from A to B.
Mine minerals.
Shooting npcs and/or players.

Two of those things don't really benefit all that much from having more players involved - moving stuff A-B, and exploring. Having more players helps with mining minerals, as it allows specialisation amongst the group of players. The activity that benefits most from having more players involved, is shooting things.

so, what kinds of benefits do people think clan systems might bring to those four activities?

 

[Riverside]

Create a private group and play away with friends!

A lot of my opinion on this topic has been said by others but I'd like to address this point made by many:

I don't have any RL friends that play this game, and I've played one form of Elite or another for my entire adult life. Since I ventured into Open in E I've made quite a few friends, and met a very small number of jerks. If I were to play in a group how do I make new acquaintances?

I used to play race sims heavily, and similarly, made friends on the open servers as well as meeting the occasional backwards driver. I eventually joined (and helped to organise) leagues. These leagues came out of chance meetings with like-minded players on the open servers but often meant that the player base only interacted with people they already knew, so the open servers stagnated.

Do not follow where the path may lead, go where there is no path & leave a trail.

 

[Cadoc]

No, clans are wearisome poppycock - rushy, grindy, raidy, cliquey, neckbeardy, munchkiny borefests that baffle new players

Oh yeah, because being dropped into Elite with the dreadful tutorials and an UI that doesn't explain anything works absolutely fantastic. Guilds can be great resources for new players, giving their assistance and teaching them about the game, as is the case in just about every real MMO. The fake concern about new players is nonsense - in fact, anti-guild folks are actively hampering new players' experience of the game, all for the sake of meaningless rhetoric and simple spite towards those who choose to play with friends.

 

[Roybe]

A lot of my opinion on this topic has been said by others but I'd like to address this point made by many:

I don't have any RL friends that play this game, and I've played one form of Elite or another for my entire adult life. Since I ventured into Open in E I've made quite a few friends, and met a very small number of jerks. If I were to play in a group how do I make new acquaintances?

I used to play race sims heavily, and similarly, made friends on the open servers as well as meeting the occasional backwards driver. I eventually joined (and helped to organise) leagues. These leagues came out of chance meetings with like-minded players on the open servers but often meant that the player base only interacted with people they already knew, so the open servers stagnated.

Do not follow where the path may lead, go where there is no path & leave a trail.

Well start your own group then...and invite others to it. Lead on! Just realize that in Open there are very few group oriented players that aren't already playing with folks...or lone wolfing it. I agree the jerk to nice person ratio is alot lower than what these forums will tell you.

All the groups I know, play with and talk to are awesome folks...regardless of your role play moral compass settings.

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By reading some of the posts from some of the anti player guilds folks, it makes me remember a nice quote I heard once:

"If you are looking for reasons not to do something, you'll always find some."

The problems I see really stem from the lack of understanding the pro guild folks have about the base design of the game...which brings out the folks that fear Eve in E: D.

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what would clans add to the game ?

There are four things you can do in Elite.

Scan uncharted planets.
Move things from A to B.
Mine minerals.
Shooting npcs and/or players.

Two of those things don't really benefit all that much from having more players involved - moving stuff A-B, and exploring. Having more players helps with mining minerals, as it allows specialisation amongst the group of players. The activity that benefits most from having more players involved, is shooting things.

so, what kinds of benefits do people think clan systems might bring to those four activities?

You do not understand how the game works for groups if this is all you see you can do.

Just go over and read the posts in the Background Simulation thread from Walt Kerman to understand what groups do within the game.

 

[Garbarrage]

Create a private group and play away with friends!

Already do that, but in order to be able to chat all together, we need to be in a wing. This is limited to 4 players. Some of my friends don't use TS but were perfectly comfortable using text based comms in another game. At least one of them can't use them (he's deaf).

Here's how I'd like to see player groups work in its entirety.
A) I'd like to be able to do it entirely in game, and use outside tools to augment the experience. I'd like to be able to recruit in game... maybe a want ads section of GalNet or something that could be seen by all players and easily moderated (because for sure some clown would use it for other purposes).
B) A chat channel available to clan members, because not every player is able to use or comfortable with voice comms.
C) Maybe a tag on your name or ship. Though it's not a deal breaker for me.
D) If they create social interactive areas, like bars or whatever, with the introduction of first person, maybe a corp/clan boardroom or office in an existing NPC owned starport or outpost. Maybe personalise parts of it... add a pool table... or bar... put your logo on the door as with paints... more cosmetics in the frontier store.

You think my vision of clans is consistent with DB's?

 

[aspiringexpatriate]

Where's the option in the poll for "Don't we already have minor factions based on player groups?"

What exactly are you referring to when you say 'clans/player factions'?

 

[JosiahD]

Insist away then! Domination oriented groups can expand, influence, Role Play blockades, and any number of other things. They can demand, whine, cajole, heck, even over run these forums with requests for all the goodies their hearts desire...but I can absolutley guarantee them one thing..asset ownership that will block others from playing is DOA, just like any requests to change the modes (the open vs. demands for fairness...better play for PvP...demand for an Open PvE mode) are NEVER going to be considered by the devs. There is no 'evolution' of these ideas..nor wholesale changes going to occur.

Oh I agree with you. But it doesn't seem to matter how many times this is pointed out, these threads keep surfacing. So long as these threads keep surfacing though, I guess we have to continue to ensure the counter-arguments are there too, lest their absence be construed as tacit agreement.

 

[Louella]

Just go over and read the posts in the Background Simulation thread from Walt Kerman to understand what groups do within the game.

Influencing the background simulation ?

A friend has a few buddies, and together they managed to change ownership of a system, without having a formal group, or player-minor faction.
So, the group structure isn't strictly necessary to affect the background simulation. It might make it a bit easier to co-ordinate, but it's not strictly necessary.

So, what else do groups do ? and what benefit do they bring to the in-game activities ?

There's the social functions of having a common chat channel, which allows a degree of co-ordination and a lot of convenience in talking to people.

but what do they do, what could they do, for ingame activities of moving stuff, exploring, mining, or shooting things ?

 

[Cadoc]

Influencing the background simulation ?

A friend has a few buddies, and together they managed to change ownership of a system, without having a formal group, or player-minor faction.
So, the group structure isn't strictly necessary to affect the background simulation. It might make it a bit easier to co-ordinate, but it's not strictly necessary.

So, what else do groups do ? and what benefit do they bring to the in-game activities ?

There's the social functions of having a common chat channel, which allows a degree of co-ordination and a lot of convenience in talking to people.

but what do they do, what could they do, for ingame activities of moving stuff, exploring, mining, or shooting things ?

One particularly important function would be providing a "newbie corp" like in EVE, which would help new players learn the game and get them on their feet. I convinced 4 friends to get Elite, and even though some of them got it a year ago, I still get frequent questions about game mechanics from them. Not everybody has the convenience of a veteran player they can contact.

 

[dementia]

Where's the option in the poll for "Don't we already have minor factions based on player groups?"

What exactly are you referring to when you say 'clans/player factions'?

I'm not a supporter of them personally so I'll let someone who is answer that more precisely than I can.

 

[Katie Byrne]

absolutely yes. some of us have gaming communities that would get involved were large group/organization coordination better implemented

 

[Majinvash]

There are already so many groups in this game, it was always going to happen. The same as every other online multiplayer game.

FD wanted players to play together by providing us with Wings and Friend lists. So its not like they tried to stop this happening, they actively promoted it.

To not then support the inevitable outcome of player groups forming, is just plain DUMB!

Sure The Code got an in game faction. Other than play the broken BGS to expand to more systems, gives us ZERO interaction or control.

The groups exist. If the solo players don't like it, stay in solo ( You know that is where the majority of the no votes are coming from).
If Open lone players don't like it, well tough. You chose to fly alone, in a Multiplayer game.

Having group tools will make life easier and more connected. It wont increase or decrease what interactions we could have with you.

If The Code or really any other group wanted to drop 3 wings into your low wake, we can do that now.

We just want to feel connected to this cold and empty game.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Cadoc]

It does yes. I managed fine with the manual, LOTS of practice, seeing instructional video guides and picked the basics up in a couple of days. It takes hundreds of hours of tuition to fly an apache helicopter well. This is similar, I can't fly the ships as well as anyone else (probably 90% can fly better than I) yet well enough.

So after reading the manual and watching videos, you still needed a couple of days to get the *basics*? That is very much NOT a good new player experience, and you're arguing against your own point. The comparison with an apache helicopter is absolutely laughable. Controlling ships in ED isn't particularly hard, but the game simply never explains a great deal of stuff. Making missions opaque, having little in-game explanation of Powerplay, never explaining how minor factions work, not explaining the different classes and ratings of modules and so on, those things are not marks of complexity or of the sim-like nature of the game, they are just tedium that new players would be best off learning from veterans. Of all the people I introduced to the game, I doubt ONE would have kept playing if just left on their own with no guidance.

 

[This Forum Sucks]

Emergent Gameplay

Yes thank you, I'm familiar with the phrase. I asked you what sort of emergent gameplay you were imagining, given that players owning or controlling space isn't ever happening.

By reading some of the posts from some of the anti player guilds folks, it makes me remember a nice quote I heard once:

"If you are looking for reasons not to do something, you'll always find some."

"A witty saying proves nothing."

Having group tools will make life easier and more connected. It wont increase or decrease what interactions we could have with you.

I really don't think anyone is objecting to better communication/social tools, just to the idea of player factions controlling territory or there being "end game" content that solo players are locked out of.

 

[Garbarrage]

I really don't think anyone is objecting to better communication/social tools, just to the idea of player factions controlling territory or there being "end game" content that solo players are locked out of.

Actually, this isn't true. There are a few who seem to balk at anything even remotely related to clans, including social and communication tools. Slippery slope fallacy littered all over every one if these threads.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I like things as they are.
I'm involved with a minor faction and we have set criteria to complete before we make anything happen. It's fun and yeah, could be better but this game is always like that. Some of us want it to constantly evolve so it is becomes the best game ever.
Minor factions are like clans, but kept very close to the ideals of the game. They get screened before they can exist.

I would also ask the OP for what their definition of a "clan" is and how they should be incorporated into the game?

I think the elephant in the room here is how much power should a minor faction or clan have...

 

[Cadoc]

Yes a couple of days, because I have a life outside videogames! As for controlling ships, try without flight assist or buggy traction control, or try doing two or three things at once with a flightstick, pedals and throttle lever, not easy, it's like learning the drums. The ship equipment is explained in the manual I gather and online downloadable guides and manuals. The tedium comes from practice. Practice is oft painful, yet you simply push through it. The Powerplay stuff isn't all that vital to learn about. You're right in that it all seems rather sink or swim. Maybe that's the point though?

You're talking about the flight controls. Those require practice, and that's fine. Here's some examples of questions my friends asked me when they started playing:

* "Where can I find A class weapons?"

* "Why are B class modules worse than E class?"

* "How can I lawfully return found cargo?"

* "I got a bounty on my head, what now?"

* "I found a trade good with a name in a different colour, what's that?"

* "Some guys told me to join someone called Arissa, should I?"

* "How do I explore?"

And so on and so on. Lots of questions that are not explained in the manual, but still are crucial. Yes, those answers CAN be found on the internet, but if you have question after question that quickly compounds, both taking lots of time to learn and overwhelming a new player. If you're in a newbie-friendly corp, you can just ask, and your question will be answered, your mates can even recommend a build for your brand new Eagle, or tell you about some 3rd party tools, whatever. Without it? I've been there, and I've gotten through it, but I would be surprised if even 10% of players get past that initial hurdle. That is a shame, because more players mean a more lively galaxy, and more revenue stream for Frontier, which means more content for everyone.

 

[Mohrgan]

For every Cult that would be helpful to a newbie, there is certainly, at least, one that wouldn't. What good some would do for the uneducated, I would expect much more negative response over all, If, Cults are given direct power over the systems they inhabit. Comm Tools until you puke, are perfectly fine with me. I don;t see a problem with Cult Tags, if you want them.

Content, of any sort, reserved by locks or costs is not acceptable. I think FD's plan to pass all of the 'interaction' between the players and the game through the BGS is the perfect solution.

 

[WR3ND]

I voted: Yes but it doesn't personally interest me so as long as it doesn't affect the game play for me I have no problem.

This way at least we could know who are officially in which player group, assuming that it would be shown, to hold them accountable.

If it's something that would be toggled on and off without leaving a group and needing to be invited back in, then no, I don't think we should have them.

 

[Roybe]

Is there a concern that clans, at least some want to lock down the environ to their own little fiefdoms, cliques and gaming conventions to how THEY want it played ie "Content, of any sort, reserved by locks or costs is not acceptable."? Surely the whole point of ED is there is no right or wrong way to take part, no right or wrong group? I find the notion of groups of players controlling sectors of space like gang turf abhorrent.

So you desire to keep players from playing the way they want to play. Got it!