Broken Promises, A Collection

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Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Ok, re-opened.

Please remember people: Discuss the topic at hand and avoid personal attacks. Please do not post image spam/memes/or otherwise derail the topic. If you have nothing constructive to say then please move along.

This is a topic that will undoubtedly have passionate opinions all around, but let's try to be civil and respectful. :)
 
So how come they are having to give refunds to Horizons buyers who own Macs, or PCs on which Horizons fails to work properly?

Why do restaurants give refunds for perfectly fine, partially consumed meals?

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How many times do they have to fail to deliver for you to start taking what they say with a pinch of salt?

Fail to deliver what? They've done fine by me.
 
Fail to deliver what? They've done fine by me.

Good for you, than you no longer need to continue reading or posting to this thread since you are content with what you have now.
Of course nothing is stopping you from sticking around and force your opinion on others and tell them what you think they should think.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
I think the OP has made some excellent and valid points and to the naysayers who keep bleating on about the "longterm" and "10 year plan"; please all of you list all the games that you have played for 10 years consistantly that IS NOT AN MMORPG ! (all of which which by the way have more linked together content by many orders of magnitude)

My initial reaction to the reasons why most of what was promised has not appeared was down to money, or lack thereof generated by the kickstarter; I think DB thought he'd get the kind of initial sums that SC got in the first few months or so, somewhere around a few millions or double the 1.5ish it actually got. Now some will say "but that's what he asked for" but the truth is if he had asked for $5mill the kickstarter would have failed, so he had to ask for a reasonable sum and hope it'll be smashed - just as SC was afterwards.

The money was and still is out there for the space sim genre, judging by the sales of ingame extras STILL being sold for SC, and with pricetags of hundreds of pounds.

But the problem with that thought is he (and others involved) made the majority of the design outlines from the OP AFTER the kickstarter had ended and the money had almost stopped flowing, so DB & FDev brewed up a batch of snake oil, then oversold it any way they could - assured in the knowledge they have carte blanche to cut out any or all of it under the EULA - because he had to to generate the necessary money to finish the project. It still wasn't enough though, otherwise why else would FDev get into bed with 3rd party companies with their own agenda's after saying the whole reason for the kickstarter route was to avoid this.

But again for all the "10 year plan" hecklers, I absolutely guarentee; not a single one of you (who also have a lifetimes free pass for the expansions) even with the best of intentions, will still be playing E: D to any degree 9 years from now other than a "lets see what this next bit does" for a few days or even weeks before dropping it for Final Fantasy 21 or whatever, and of the ones without a free lifetime expansion pass, barely a handfull will get past buying season 5 or 6.

So sure am I of this I'll make a statement: if any non development team affiliated player can prove, via hours played, places been and assets earned that they have an average playtime that equates to an average 600 played hours per year over a ten year period I'll give them, PERSONALLY, wherever they are in the world, at my expense, my Original Elite Badge from my avatar because they will most definitely have earned the right to carry it more than I. This might not seem much to you, but for reasons explained in some of my other posts here; this badge, to me, is the most precious thing I own.

Make note, the time on it's own is not enough, the assets owned is not enough and the places visited is not enough - it has to be a career playing E D spanning 10 years to be valid because each on its own can be manipulated.

Games are still played 10 years after the launch all the time, but there isn't a single one of any of them that is both still under development by the original developer, and NOT AN MMORPG. I'm also not including any of the long running franchise games like call of duty or fifa / tiger woods golf where each new iteration is a DIFFERENT and separate game)

I'll part with this, I know games and I know gamers, not the individuals but the psychology of gamers, I've met and conversed with tens of thousands of them. My personal gaming "career" goes all the way back to PONG and the binatone machine some 40 years ago, the intellivision console, my first "proper" computer the BBC B in 1986 and thenceforce I've been playing games via electronic media probably averaging over that entire period at least 1 day per week playing one form or another and my "multiplayer" career started with MUD's in the mid 90's with an Archimedes (and ranked Elite on that too),

Over all of that time there hasn't yet been a game made that has been able to captivate and hold a player for the length of time FDev is talking about to see the full magnitude of the development plan they have set out before the game was even launched.

Not even Eve Online, the longest running MMO still under development, has been able to do that and it's had almost 13 years in which to do it, with some of the most skillfully applied game assets that are just beyond staggering in their depth and scope for "emergent gameplay".


Oh PS - even Star Citzen hasn't said it wants to take 10 years to fully develop, and they HAVE the assets and finance to be able to do it. Fdev is, frankly, delusional to think in the games industry they can keep the kickstarters and original backers waiting 10 years to get what they were promised.

PPS - just remember kids, the FDev EULA states they can pull the plug at any time for any reason, and there's no legally iron clad promise the game will even still be under development in 10 years, only their word and we all know how much that is worth.

Enjoy.

PPPS - where's my artbook and free ship?
 
I've bought the Premium Beta because of the Dev diaries and the DDA.

Elite Dangerous is very different from what it was supposed to be. It seems a dumbed down game.

I hope FD change their priorities asap and transform the game to a real sci fi game with depth.
 
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I've bought the Premium Beta because of the Dev diaries and the DDA.

Elite Dangerous is very different from what it was supposed to be. It seems a dumbed down game.

I hope FD change their priorities asap and transform the game to a real sci fi game with depth.


Didnt they recently say that the DDA is now part of a 10 year plan ( powerplay fills some of that) and it seems other elements in a basic form are coming this year ( its just much slower than probably Fdev anticpated)
 
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I see many attacks on OP's valid points and even if we say "Everything released up to now is good" it is not that good!

Let me talk about current state without promises:

First of all I was playing in Open for a very long time and playing on my own, trading. Once I become part of a guild, problems started to multiply rapidly. Turns out, for every 10 players in the game there are 2 players I can't see nor interact with. I have a guild mate that he can't see me, I can't see him but all others can see us both without any problems. Now before you say "it is peer-to-peer" I know it is peer-to-peer connection but that is not a justification but a pitiful excuse. If FREE TO PLAY games can have better connections then I don't care if ED uses peer-to-peer technology or pigeon-to-pigeon technology - we paid for something that they did not done right for more than a year since game was released. I tried with that particular guild mate many different free-to-play games and we could see us without problem. If FD can't figure it out how to make their connections work - then let they buy the bloody licence and implement the stuff. Without it, multicrew will mean to me little to nothing.

This means that adding a feature (like multicrew) on top of not so good foundation of the game makes it very bad plan.

"Frontier Developments is a small team" some will say. That is true but I will tell you there is another small team in Poland called CD Projekt RED. They gave promises what Witcher 3 will be like, look like and feature like. A year before game was released game press said that such game doesn't exist, it is not in development it is all a lie. When game was released, all promises were there in the game. The only thing that they let down players was slightly downgraded graphics. Background simulation in Witcher 3 works as intended! Background simulation in ED doesn't work as intended.

I see many have taken Anaconda damage model. * N * I * C * E * - what about damage models of other ships? It would be OK as if Anaconda is the only ship in the game - but it isn't!

With release of Powerplay, all those who play in Open and still play in Open became fools. Why? Simply enough is the current state of events happening in Rhea. Me and my guild are often there hunting for Felicia Winters players and guess what: mostly there are just NPCs and few low ranked new players but hey Felicia with some magic is still fortifying systems very well. Efforts made in Open are now meaningless. * N * I * C * E * mechanic - I am speechless. This never bothered me while I was playing on my own but now with guild it all comes so clear to me how stupid this decision is to keep Solo/private and Open as same universe/reality. All can be solved trough separation of careers. Open to be one and Solo/Private to be second and those 2 realities should not interact meaning Solo/Private Group universe is one reality and Open is completely different reality. Is this possible? YES! For a short period of time we had 1.4 live game, 1.5 beta reality and 2.0 reality - FD was running 3 independent universes at once! Well, if they run just 2 for live game it would be good enough.


Missions are nice at first until you realize exploit is a preferable mechanic to earn money and rank trough missions. On top of that, we can bribe certain individuals till we get highest rank in army - SUCH ARMY!

Wings was a patch released long time ago - still we can't share the mission with our friends in wing. Why? They do not meet rank requirements? Fine let game split some of the earning as it normally does. Right now when I take mission X that offers me 200K Cr same mission can take my low ranked friend in wing but they will pay him 120K Cr. If so, then it should be possible that we just share same mission and actually play together.

Some will say: "This is their first multiplayer game" - OK, then why they do not improve upon multiplayer aspects of the game? If someone makes multiplayer game, then that one must have in mind all the norms of multiplayer games on the market. Let us not forget that combat logging is still a thing. Last evening a guild mate was chasing some guy in Anaconda and he finally caught him - guy did combat log. Yes he reported him but that makes things pitiful! I repeat - Free to Play games have better technical solution than ED!

Many will say again and again "it is a 10 year development plan". Fine - in my post I wrote only about currently released things that are real issues. Then again, there is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp8RTHR0HWQ

Just spend 28 minutes.
 
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@Op
Thanks for the re-cap and don't give up hope.
to be honest i would still play this game if it was exact duplicate of the original but with better graphics, lol


^ This is why there are many disagreements about the state of the game, due to the expectations of various fans being so wildly different.
 
You don't need to go back to KS promises to notice how much lies they are saying.
Few months back, they said they will fix the BGS during a dev update, still waiting.

It is just one among many...

But that is a risk with KS. And people are giving way too much credits to FD - just by souvenir of the first elites-.
It would have been the first Elite, this game would have been trashed down for sure.
 
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Repped both OP and the last post.
Fanboys filled first page with "ANACONDA HAS DAMAGE MODEL!!!!!111" posts.
Well, then what? Barebones and broken mechanics everywhere.
No, i like the ED and EDH, but OP nailed it well, no doubt.

Remember the Orrery map.
 
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And when would it be reasonably to expect these things to come out? Season 1? That's over, and season 2 is all booked up with planet and multicrew stuff I imagine. Next year? In 10 years? Or as Kristov suggests, never? A feature without an ETA might as well be "never".

I don't think it was unreasonable to expect at least most of it at launch since it's in marketing materials used to hype the kickstarter. Maybe they should have delayed the game to make it happen but it seems like getting in on holiday sales is more important to them. Even if they didn't they really should have focused the first year of support on implementing some of the features. We didn't really get anything.

In 10 years sounds about right.
 
OP got it right.

It seems a lot of effort is made to re tweak and shadow fix stuff on the game like the commodity market rather than letting it on free wheels. Of course it is automated. A good example is that you cannot somehow in a multi lightyear civilization find a benefit of commodity benefit of 3K+ credit, with a 1K benefit being the average, even lower for some hundred galactic average commodities. Prices somehow stay the same in the galaxy. Let's just remember how our good old Earth, which is for info not even a one light year system but ONE planet has disastrous price range. It is disappointing to see that everything restrains the civilization from having a dynamic commodity price variation.

I always felt that this restrained the game. Famine you said? How about prices doesn't go on fire. Even in some disastrous systems, the prices of buying won't go up. People are literally starving and dying, but no, price of the commodity won't go up because of that benefit limit system.

Of course OP pointed other facts, but for the famine, this seems to be quite the reason.

It's like somebody created sandcastles but just only to look at them, don't people dare to play with them or create others.
 
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I can't be bothered to read the whole of this thread but as with all the other whiney threads I just keep thinking the same thing...


Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
OP. If you worked in the IT software development industry you would see this all the time. What the customer "thinks" they want, what the designers plan to deliver and what actually gets built with time and money pressures are completely different things.

You never get everything you want and certainly straight away. A lot of projects never get to the magical "Phase 2". We are lucky that FD seem to be doing that.
 
Well, we can ignore any posts that contain the words:
"lying" or "lies"
"greedy" or "only in it for the money"
"conned" or "cheat"
"fanboys"
"white knights"
"trolls"

Not many posts left after that. OP wants all the things now. Others say that it's unrealistic to expect it all now; stuff takes time to build. Even death needs time for what it kills to grow in. The rest is mutual accusations of being insincere, biased or stupid. YMMV.

tree-swing-project-management-large-552x400.png
 
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It seems many feel just because FD have said they have a 10 year plan for the game then we should just sit back and wait for 10 years before commenting on it?? Really???

This forum never ceased amaze me.

Right, so with a ten year development plan in place, now is the time to start complaining that everything isn't included. And also, now is the time to conclude that everything that's thus far missing will never be included, ever.

Once again, the attitudes and 'logic' being exhibited on this forum makes me question the quality of the ED community and how it's being managed.
 
Having not read the entire thread since it very quickly bored me, I'd like to point out that it doesn't appear to me that any of the things the OP pointed out are promises but merely ideas that Braben or any of the dev team would have like to see.
 
TODO: Tier 2 - Design Discussion Disasters

Before moving ahead, if you are going to list things as broken promises at least actually only list things that are:

1) actually broken promises
2) not things that are actually already in game, either wholly or partially awaiting further development
3) not things that FD haven't even started work on yet, keeping in mind the game is going to be developed for many years yet.
4) and suggest not things that have actually changed direction from what was originally envisaged due to changes in gameplay decisions.

You might have a point with one or two things, but even so, you are really stretching the point to call them broken promises.

I suggest you reevaluate your criteria before continuing.
 
Why are you people so obsessed with star citizen? Star Citizen has it's own development problems but they haven't broken promises yet. Mostly because nothing is out yet.

And yet, you highlight the lack of passenger missions as a broken promise in ED, when passenger missions haven't been developed yet.... do you see the problem yet?

Or you think FD should have released ED only when it was 100% complete? That would be a shame, i've had 800 hours of enjoyable play so far. Waiting another 10 years for FD to release ED would have been a terrible thing for me. But if you prefer that yourself, you can simply not buy the seasons until FD have finished developing the game.
 
And yet, you highlight the lack of passenger missions as a broken promise in ED, when passenger missions haven't been developed yet.... do you see the problem yet?

It's probably more noticeable because they put a passenger ship in the game and left it without a role for over a year now.
Especially given that it is really only a matter of a new module and changing a few lines of text to say passenger instead of cargo.

CMDR CTCParadox
 
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