Oculus vs. Vive 'head 2 head' in elite

I heard that the Vive wasn't much better than the DK2... I'll try them out, when they're released, then I'll decide if I buy a new headset, or maybe stay with my DK2 another year...

I recently read a seasoned DK2/ED player testing the EGX Vive ED demo (https://goo.gl/L5aG7j), and he was not impressed. Maybe he had too high expectations. And red text still hurt vive/CV1 screen alot.
Ive also read alot of really good reviews ofource. But when a seasoned player writes like that, I take it seriously. Could also be that frontier/valve still have alot of optimizations to do so they can get better than
1x subsampling going on even a titanx. And its pretty far from 970/290 territory.
 
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I recently read a seasoned DK2/ED player testing the EGX Vive ED demo (https://goo.gl/L5aG7j), and he was not impressed. Maybe he had too high expectations. And red text still hurt vive/CV1 screen alot.
Ive also read alot of really good reviews ofource. But when a seasoned player writes like that, I take it seriously. Could also be that frontier/valve still have alot of optimizations to do so they can get better than
1x subsampling going on even a titanx. And its pretty far from 970/290 territory.

I've also used a dk2 pretty much exclusively in ED for about the same amount of time. My experience at EGX was far better than that of the guy who posted that review. Our own personal DK2's will be calibrated to our IPD, assuming we set them up correctly. At EGX, the HMD came straight off one head and onto another. There was no time for any kind of calibration. I would hazard a guess that whoever calibrated the Vive for the ED stand at EGX had a pretty similar IPD to myself, but was significantly more incorrect for the guy who did that review.

I love playing ED with my DK2, I loved playing ED in the Vive much more. Think I had to queue for about an hour and a half, but I thought it was well worth it for the few minutes with the HMD on. I'll be buying one of the comercial VR headsets for sure. Whichever one is first available gets my purchase.
 
I heard that the Vive wasn't much better than the DK2... I'll try them out, when they're released, then I'll decide if I buy a new headset, or maybe stay with my DK2 another year...

I'm the guy who always see the glass half empty, but I would like to believe the DK2 will still work after release of CV1, but as specs are far different from both I'm not sure they will keep compatibility in drivers with dev kit, and also games, like ED, I'm not sure they will manage the 2 devices (DK2 & CV1 to be clear)...
 
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I'm the guy who always see the glass half empty, but I would like to believe the DK2 will still work after release of CV1, but as specs are far different from both I'm not sure they will keep compatibility in drivers with dev kit, and also games, like ED, I'm not sure they will manage the 2 devices (DK2 & CV1 to be clear)...

Well, I think Frontier knows that there are many people who have a dk2 and I'm quite sure it'll work... They also announced that Elite will support SteamVR! I can't imagine that it won't be supported further on (it's half full ;-))...

How about the DK1? It's still working, isn't it?
 
And red text still hurt vive/CV1 screen alot.
Why is that? In the DK2 the reason why green text is better than other colours is the pentile matrix display which has a higher resolution in green compared to blue and red. My information was that both CV1 and Vive would use a standard RGB matrix, so the resolution should be the same for every colour.
 
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If you do the calculations, what you need is 32K resolution image PER eye in order to get the same pixel density where you cannot make out the pixels as you would on a 1440p monitor from 50-60cm away. There are no panels that have that amount of pixels and there are no GPUs able to drive that number of pixels at 90Hz.

VR will be a loooooong way off having the same pixel resolution as a monitor but that is fine as the 3D immersion is more than worth it. All my friends that run ED in 4K across 3 monitors say that the 3D immersion is what wins it. The resolution etc and the fact that you can make out the pixels becomes unimportant when you actually play it.

You will probably never need 32K per eye. Your eye only has about 96.6 million photreceptors per retina, of which only about 4.6 million are cones. 32K would be a little over a billion pixels. There comes a point where it'll be easier to figure out where your eye is looking and stimulate cones directly with a laser than it will be to squeeze more pixels into a tiny screen.
 
You will probably never need 32K per eye. Your eye only has about 96.6 million photreceptors per retina, of which only about 4.6 million are cones. 32K would be a little over a billion pixels. There comes a point where it'll be easier to figure out where your eye is looking and stimulate cones directly with a laser than it will be to squeeze more pixels into a tiny screen.
I can imagine having to explain that to my kids already. How you can't look at a laser pointer as it doesn't have a picture in it.

So, cv1 preorders are up, vive is still going for April 2016. Oculus pre orders are stating June delivery. Oculus is $599 (£499 probably). I think vive is going to be $699 - $800.

Plus I really like the addition of the front camera on the vive on the latest models. I know this is only really useful for the standing game rather than the sitting game, like elite, but I'm thinking about reaching for my beer ;)
 
Plus I really like the addition of the front camera on the vive on the latest models. I know this is only really useful for the standing game rather than the sitting game, like elite, but I'm thinking about reaching for my beer ;)
Certainly an important application but I think lifting the HMD a bit to take a look at you beer is just marginally more cumbersome than pressing a button to enable the camera. The advantage of the lifting method is saving both the additional weight and cost of the camera.
 
The GPU capability is much closer than you think but the panels will take a while to catch up.

It's not merely the GPU capability - it's getting the pixels to the screen too and just drawing stuff to the frame buffer. A 32K display at 90Hz at 24bpp would require a bandwidth of nearly 10Tbit/sec. By contrast PCI-e 4.0 x16 is only 31.5 Gbit/sec, several orders of magnitude too slow. HBM memory (that will be in the new AMD and nVidia cards) has a max theoretical bandwidth of about 8 Tbit/sec (about a terabyte a second) which is still too slow (don't forget the GPU has to be able to move stuff in and out of this memory while the video output sucks 10Tbit/sec out of whatever memory is set aside for the frame buffer - I don't know how memory contention works on modern graphics cards, perhaps it's all dual ported and this isn't too much of an issue). But even with that blistering memory bandwidth you've still got to get 10Tbit/sec to the actual panel uncompressed at some stage. That ain't gonna be happening with a HDMI or DisplayPort cable.
 
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Since playing on elite using the oculus at the launch party I have been adamant that I will be buying a vr setup when it comes out. But, increasingly, I found myself disillusioned with the oculus itself. The Facebook buyout, the total secrecy on final specs and the increasing amount of competition from things like the vive, but also star breeze.

What I really want to see now is a decent side by side comparison of the vive with the oculus to determine which is better for elite (which is, after all, the only reason I want to get one)

I'm hoping that some lucky person has the good fortune to have both and the charitable nature to perform the comparison.


Puuuuuleeeease

Facebook buyout was good in terms of the benefit on final product and quantity available. Custom screens on CV1 because of Facebook.

CV1 has slightly better image quality than Vive Pre. Vive pre has more internal reflections on high contrast scenes due to the fresnel lenses.

CV1 is excellent.

Vive Pre slightly better FOV and the best tracking.
 
I like a lot of people interested in VR, but what will make or break ANY system is support.

Vive = Open source and backed by Steam.
Oculus = Been around longer but losing edge fast.

I am still on the fence on which to buy and that there are 2 other companies due to release VR.
 
I like a lot of people interested in VR, but what will make or break ANY system is support.

Vive = Open source and backed by Steam.
Oculus = Been around longer but losing edge fast.

I am still on the fence on which to buy and that there are 2 other companies due to release VR.

Oculus has great support with countless apps and games. Great development community with support for the 3 biggest game engines. That is hardly losing edge fast. Vive Pre is an unknown quantity at this point. If it's more expensive than CV1 that will impact sales.

Not sure what you mean when you say Vive is open source?

Oculus is open-source development available to all.
 
On paper, the vive seems better, but that is mainly because the final spec on the consumer oculus still have not been released (unless I missed it, I do try and keep up)

VIVE is better only in the control system that in Elite is useless.
Who have tryed both said the image quality is better in CV1.
 
Oculus has great support with countless apps and games. Great development community with support for the 3 biggest game engines. That is hardly losing edge fast. Vive Pre is an unknown quantity at this point. If it's more expensive than CV1 that will impact sales.

Not sure what you mean when you say Vive is open source?

Oculus is open-source development available to all.

It would seem Oculus and Vive both open-source than, i.e. softward to drive them available for free.

But it will all down to support. I would expect any software developer to make sure they support all VR kit.

I just do not think that Oculus has done enough to keep it's market. And Vive backed by steam/valve known software developer with a track record.
Time will tell as Oculus and Vive not the only ones due to release this year. Personally I like the look of VR system with cam built in to overlay graphics on real world (Something nintendo 3ds already does).
 
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If you do the calculations, what you need is 32K resolution image PER eye in order to get the same pixel density where you cannot make out the pixels as you would on a 1440p monitor from 50-60cm away. There are no panels that have that amount of pixels and there are no GPUs able to drive that number of pixels at 90Hz.

VR will be a loooooong way off having the same pixel resolution as a monitor but that is fine as the 3D immersion is more than worth it. All my friends that run ED in 4K across 3 monitors say that the 3D immersion is what wins it. The resolution etc and the fact that you can make out the pixels becomes unimportant when you actually play it.

TOTALLY AGREE!! Good FPS and low lag is what is really important in VR! Having said that I will ALWAYS welcome improvements!!
 
I've owned a DK2 and I was demonstrating the HTC Vive at the EGX this year (as others have mentioned).

I opted for Oculus. Why not a Vive?

Due to the amount of time I play Elite, especially on the DK2 I had already, VR was going to be a must-have. If I can spend £200 on headset or £150 on a joystick, £500 isn't a huge leap for an HMD I'll use for three hours a day.

The implementation of the Vive has sadly ruled it out for me as a viable option. Why? Because it requires two wall-mounted sensors that are roughly 6cm cubed, with bright-green always-on LEDs. Not something my wife would accept in any room in the house (especially not the bedroom where my PC resides) and since I don't have a dedicated VR room where I could bury the cables in the wall, it ain't gonna happen.

The biggest issues (for me) with the DK2 were heat, weight and resolution. With the big plastic front-section and large straps it was very hot to wear in the summer. Although not heavy, after an hour of wear your neck notices. The CV1 has a fabric-like shell instead of solid plastic and weighs a fraction of what the DK2 did; it has much thinner head straps and has the same video resolution as the HTC Vive (which I've tried using Elite) which eliminates visible pixels, so it ticks all the boxes.

The revised version of the Vive recently announced (with front-facing camera) has slightly smaller sensors than the prototype I used last year, so they can be tripod-mounted - but do you have 15 square feet around your PC to accommodate two tripods with associated cabling across the floor? I don't. It also doesn't look to be any lighter than the prototype, which was a similar weight to the DK2 as just as strappy (read hot to wear).

I suspect that the Vive is going make people blow coffee out their nose when they announce their price. They've said theirs will be "premium" HMD. They also made a (presumably costly) last-minute revision to the consumer version to include the front-facing camera and they plan to include motion controllers, so the whole package is going to cost a lot more. That's not a bad thing, but the people will look back and see the Oculus as the entry-level HMD option.

The PlayStation VR price leaked yesterday and it was $800 (ex VAT & shipping), so the later VR's are not going to be any cheaper for some time.

On the upside the current generation of top-end 28nm graphics cards are £400-500 and there aren't many to choose from, but both AMD and nVidia are set to release a range of 14nm video cards this year. Now while the top-end cards will probably cost over the £500 mark, the huge boost in performance these cards should offer means the mid-rage offerings (GTX 960 price equivalent) should outperform the likes of the current GTX 980s. So look forward to cheaper super-powerful graphics later this year.

So it boils down to preference & what you can afford. If you have lots of room and don't mind the big sensors and have a bigger budget, you can go for the Vive and benefit from the premium headset and the augmented reality options the new camera will offer. If your PC doesn't have it's own study or office or you want something portable plus a smaller budget, you'll probably want the Oculus.
 
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I've owned a DK2 and I was demonstrating the HTC Vive at the EGX this year (as others have mentioned).

I opted for Oculus. Why not a Vive?
<snip>

The implementation of the Vive has sadly ruled it out for me as a viable option. Why? Because it requires two wall-mounted sensors that are roughly 6cm cubed, with bright-green always-on LEDs. Not something my wife would accept in any room in the house (especially not the bedroom where my PC resides) and since I don't have a dedicated VR room where I could bury the cables in the wall, it ain't gonna happen.
<snip>

It does not require them to be wall mounted, you can put both on the desk - there is even a youtube demo showing how well this works, even if you do get up and walk around.
The CV1 needs that camera on a big stick on your desk, so this is not really any worse.
 
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