Oculus vs. Vive 'head 2 head' in elite

[Frank]

Thanks for the link AdoredTV. His writings confirm the feelings I was getting from the stories I was reading. I like the idea that a VR headset should be as easy to don as a baseball cap.

But I am also very scared of reports that Oculus will have its own platform, "Oculus Home". I don't understand why a display device requires its own platform. If it turns out that Oculus needs a FaceBook account then that will immediately simplify my choice. I don't want involvement with someone whose opinion of his customers is so low I can't repeat them on this family friendly forum.

 

[Ramjet]

I have been an Oculus Dk2 user for over a year now and being an "older" gamer it has singularly been the most fantastic and mind blowing piece of hardware I have ever used or experienced. Most of my hours using it have been spent in Assetto Corsa and Project Cars, not so much Elite.

While I think CV1 Oculus would most likely be my choice next year I would totally abandon that idea in favor of the Vive if it turns out to be true that Oculus Rift is locked to a platform that involves compulsory Facebook log in as I absolutely despise that product and the insidious way it has grown to be such an accepted way of communicating. I really hope that is not true !

 

[SlackR]

I have been an Oculus Dk2 user for over a year now and being an "older" gamer it has singularly been the most fantastic and mind blowing piece of hardware I have ever used or experienced. Most of my hours using it have been spent in Assetto Corsa and Project Cars, not so much Elite.

While I think CV1 Oculus would most likely be my choice next year I would totally abandon that idea in favor of the Vive if it turns out to be true that Oculus Rift is locked to a platform that involves compulsory Facebook log in as I absolutely despise that product and the insidious way it has grown to be such an accepted way of communicating. I really hope that is not true !

I have to agree... I would never use facebook and would abandon my support of oculus if you needed a facebook account to use it.

 

[Qubit]

I have to agree... I would never use facebook and would abandon my support of oculus if you needed a facebook account to use it.

I really hope it does not require a facebook account.

A few months back I installed the facebook app on my phone so I could see some mobile ad's for a campaign I was testing. My god that thing was the worst app ever. It wanted to take over everything on the phone instead of just letting me look at facebook. Also my battery life plumetted, I had it installed less than two weeks in total.

If the Oculus software requires linking to a facebook account I will not be purchasing it, even if the hardware is better.

 

[bitstorm]

I really hope it does not require a facebook account.

A few months back I installed the facebook app on my phone so I could see some mobile ad's for a campaign I was testing. My god that thing was the worst app ever. It wanted to take over everything on the phone instead of just letting me look at facebook. Also my battery life plumetted, I had it installed less than two weeks in total.

If the Oculus software requires linking to a Facebook account I will not be purchasing it, even if the hardware is better.

Well look I certainly don't know what's going to happen, but Facebook makes money by selling user data.

I guess it's possible Oculus will be the exception, but y'know...

 

[dementia]

See all the pixels? That's what I was afraid of apparently there is no screen door effect like you have in the DK2, so that's an improvement at least.

I wish they would come up with some way of making tiny screens with such a high resolution that the individual pixel elements are beyond human resolution - I don't know, stack them in layers or something lol

If you do the calculations, what you need is 32K resolution image PER eye in order to get the same pixel density where you cannot make out the pixels as you would on a 1440p monitor from 50-60cm away. There are no panels that have that amount of pixels and there are no GPUs able to drive that number of pixels at 90Hz.

VR will be a loooooong way off having the same pixel resolution as a monitor but that is fine as the 3D immersion is more than worth it. All my friends that run ED in 4K across 3 monitors say that the 3D immersion is what wins it. The resolution etc and the fact that you can make out the pixels becomes unimportant when you actually play it.

 

[Qubit]

Well look I certainly don't know what's going to happen, but Facebook makes money by selling user data.

I guess it's possible Oculus will be the exception, but y'know...

Yeah, currently nobody outside of those two companies know the plans.

Plans would have already been in place before Facebook purchased Oculus. Hopefully, these plans will not have been changed too much, and Facebook really just want to back the technology to make VR successful.

I have mixed feelings about this though. On one hand you have one of the most iconic and innovative CEO's developing some groundbreaking technology, and the other one of the most successful companies in the world, who seem to have little regard for the privacy of their customers.

We will just have to wait and see what the final product actual includes.

 

[adoredtv]

If you do the calculations, what you need is 32K resolution image PER eye in order to get the same pixel density where you cannot make out the pixels as you would on a 1440p monitor from 50-60cm away. There are no panels that have that amount of pixels and there are no GPUs able to drive that number of pixels at 90Hz.

The GPU capability is much closer than you think but the panels will take a while to catch up.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I never thought of that. Are you saying that you will need a Facebook account to use the Rift?

I don't think it will be necessarily in the first iteration but I'm convinced they'll try to slowly sneak it in. Even if they don't, I'm actually more concerned they'll use the same hideous business practices facebook uses from the get-go in Oculus home.

 

[Oheck]

They may. If you invested 2 billion dollars into something...would you just let it develop completely on its own? Corporations don't typically work that way. Certainly with investors involved. Can only wait and see though..

 

[ranix]

The GPU capability is much closer than you think but the panels will take a while to catch up.

I'll believe it when I see it. It's been like 30 years and nvidia still doesn't even have a remotely acceptable Linux driver. I have very little confidence in their ability to produce a product that can both attain high performance and be accessible to the average gamer.

 

[Qubit]

I posted the following in the wrong thread, was meant to post it here:

I think the Oculus Rift and Vive are almost identical with regard to specs and experience offered. I have more concerns for Oculus Rift due to the pressures from Facebook and their business model.

However, I see actually walking around the room being fairly limiting, you will never be able to go far enough for most games. This is not a problem for E: D, because it is better suited for being seated, so both HMD's will be suitable.

For other games, I think the better set up will be with something like the Virtuix Omni - from the demos it looks like it could offer the best VR FPS experience, and provide quite workout!

Currently, the way things are are looking I think I will most likely end up getting the Vive (I expect better support for most games via SteamVR; Linux support), then a bit later get the Virtuix Omni or similar to provide the complete experience, without needing a huge amount of space and with peace of mind that I will not walk into the coffee table, or guitars, etc

I am also keeping my eye on the R&D progress into VR gloves that provide haptic feedback. We are already starting to see the beginning of a huge shift in gaming that I expect will get really interesting over the next 5-10 years.

These are truly exciting times.

 

[Oheck]

Orbit, great thing is, there are options available. Who would have thought it of VR. Awesome time to be a gamer, for certain. Wish I was 20 years younger though. I can't imagine what folks will be using even 10 years from now.

 

[adoredtv]

I'll believe it when I see it. It's been like 30 years and nvidia still doesn't even have a remotely acceptable Linux driver. I have very little confidence in their ability to produce a product that can both attain high performance and be accessible to the average gamer.

https://medium.com/@Heffle/5-days-of-vr-at-siggraph-2015-f503658e26d3

So I may or may not have new details here. First will be about LiquidVR. They said it’s releasing at the end of the year, and will have around 40+ features compared to the 10–20 that are currently being implemented. You will be able to have an “infinite” amount of cards with their multi-gpu feature as long as the hardware (motherboard, power, etc.) supports it. They have already tested 2 together successfully on both Crytek and Zypre’s demos. Support for more is still being tested.

Given a big enough power supply and enough mobo slots I'm pretty sure AMD could do 32k per eye already. Granted we're a long way from that kind of setup in our homes but the fact of the technological capability being there right now shouldn't be lost on anyone. It *is* possible with the right hardware and software package. Think about it, if you can split an image perfectly over 2 eyes there's nothing stopping you from splitting it infinitely with an infinite amount of cards.

It won't need anything like an infinite amount of course. How many Dual Fury X's would it take for 32k per eye? It's really not that far away so long as the multi-gpu scaling remains constant and high.

Nvidia won't have anything like the capability for another 3-4 years, maybe more. It requires a specific combination of hardware and software that they don't have either of. As crazy as it sounds, AMD probably "lucked in" on it at least regarding VR. Anyway, this is well worth paying attention to.

 

[betc]

lots of good discussions going on here, and i thought i was just going to get CV1! looks like we have some choices.

It will be interesting to see what actually gets included with CV1 and Vive come retail day, its still a ways off and who knows what they will change in the meantime, 6 months is a long time...

Regarding the GPU debate, I personally think CV1 specs are matched pretty well with modern day GPUs... ie 2 x 980Ti is a good fit for CV1. Even 2x1080 GTX will be a good fit. it takes so much more power to run a game with lots of props/trees/etc in VR and never dip below 90fps. Has anyone played Crysis 1 in 3D? that game looks good even by todays standards in 2D, lots of foliage and trees. chuck it in 3D and it looks baron. 3D/VR is a whole different kettle of fish in so many ways. ED doesnt really highlight many of the issues as you only ever sit in the cockpit. #moregpupower

 

[Herne]

For me it boils down to which one will be available and compatible with ED first ? I would expect the experience to be similar no matter which one we go for, so I will take whichever one I can get hold of, providing it's supported by ED.

We know Vive will be supported by ED from holiday 2015. As yet we don't know if frontier can integrate the 1.0 SDK, and we won't know until they can get their hands on, and have a tinker with it.

 

[SnugglySocks]

For me it boils down to which one will be available and compatible with ED first ? I would expect the experience to be similar no matter which one we go for, so I will take whichever one I can get hold of, providing it's supported by ED.

We know Vive will be supported by ED from holiday 2015. As yet we don't know if frontier can integrate the 1.0 SDK, and we won't know until they can get their hands on, and have a tinker with it.

This is also a very good point. The recent announcement that FD would not be updating to the later rift SDK's was, to me, a good indication that it had taken a very large step back in the queue.

 

[ranix]

Orbit, great thing is, there are options available. Who would have thought it of VR. Awesome time to be a gamer, for certain. Wish I was 20 years younger though. I can't imagine what folks will be using even 10 years from now.

Experience has taught me that the best time to play is right after release.

 

[callezetter]

They may. If you invested 2 billion dollars into something...would you just let it develop completely on its own? Corporations don't typically work that way. Certainly with investors involved. Can only wait and see though..

You can run whatever you want on a rift, just like a normal screen. Dont have to use Oculus Store at all. And they will never remove that feature since lots of people want to make
their own VR expeience in unity/unreal. If they remove that they cut the whoel indie dev community at the kneecaps. Wich will never happend.

 

[BoggiBlanko]

I heard that the Vive wasn't much better than the DK2... I'll try them out, when they're released, then I'll decide if I buy a new headset, or maybe stay with my DK2 another year...