A simple fix [semi fix] to combat logging!

[Nitek [pl]]

+1 rep, good sir! The best comment on 'combat logging complaints' I have seen on this forum, ever. Learned something, and it makes complete sense.
In other words: There is no way that FDev will ever be able to solve a problem that lies in the emotional reaction to another player's behaviour.

Even when the exploit is used as a "never die" solution? People have macros to kill the process! Even in npc fights!

 

[Mohrgan]

I know it's permitted but in pvp scenario, you are still a combat logger and there is no way to tell us otherwise Robert. No honor in logging either way.

You use the fact that FD has called CL'ing an 'unintended exploit' to call those that do it, cheaters. Shouldn't you accept that the 15 Sec Solution is fair, because FD has said so? I mean if you want to challenge FD on these definitions, what is to stop other players from challenging the call that CL'ing is an exploit. I mean, it is designed into the game.... You cannot expect your argument to have merit when you are so blinded to reality.

 

[Lupin]

Personally I lised the system Mech Warroir Online used to stop people logging off maps they did not want to play.
A simple cool down time for logging back into game. The more often you log out the longer them time gets.

 

[stripealipe]

Possibly being shot whilst playing this game, and it is a game, was always going to be a reality, like it or not. You bought it, and you knew the possibilities.
Being able to have some kind of infinite lives hack is crazy. There is a solo mode, so why not use it?

Combat logging in open should be addressed and dealt with, simple as that. It's cheating, nothing more.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

Possibly being shot whilst playing this game, and it is a game, was always going to be a reality, like it or not. You bought it, and you knew the possibilities.
Being able to have some kind of infinite lives hack is crazy. There is a solo mode, so why not use it?

Combat logging in open should be addressed and dealt with, simple as that. It's cheating, nothing more.

Thank you and have a spoon of rep+ :]

 

[Thetele]

System should automatically ban people who log off/lose connection to servers while in combat, in interdiction or similar situation. First time 5 min ban then 10 min then 30 then 1 hour etc... No one play game and need to leave several times for IRL stuff when they see combat. technical issue would naturally cause some log off but not so many that you would exit comabt situation 5+ times in a day. CL once or twice isn´t hard punishment but if you keep doing it you will get hard and harsh punishment.

They should increase log off timer to minute if there is other player in same instance with deployed hardpoints. You could leave and your ship stay there for 1 min or you can wait and watch 1 min and leave when your ship leave game. No timer if you are only ship in instance or docked at station.

 

[Mohrgan]

Possibly being shot whilst playing this game, and it is a game, was always going to be a reality, like it or not. You bought it, and you knew the possibilities.
Being able to have some kind of infinite lives hack is crazy. There is a solo mode, so why not use it?

Combat logging in open should be addressed and dealt with, simple as that. It's cheating, nothing more.

Nothing more, indeed. Combat Logging is just like Griefing, some players see it around every corner. FD has said it is tracking the situation and will act appropriately. Accept that and move on, you certainly have over the proclamation that CL'ing is an 'unintended exploit' (just a bit shy of a game breaking cheat, don;t you think?). Players have no way of knowing if another player has CL'ed. What they cite are 'wives tails' that serve their views. I have pointed out many instances where CL'ing has been misidentified. Even one of the posters here has expanded the definition of CL'ing to suit their agenda. Combat Logging just doesn't rise to the level that warrants the zeal displayed. It's just a game. Count it as a win, and move on.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

You want to punish everybody for what a few are doing without actually preventing those few from keep on doing what they are doing. Brilliant Plan.

 

[Arithon]

The only "problem" with combat logging is that the griefers victims get away.

It is not a high priority requirement to "fix" forcing players into PvP when they don't want to participate.

I'd like to see any player that kills without warrant (not piracy, bounty hunting or PowerPlay), i.e. a griefer, get insta-killed, but I won't get what I want either.

Elite is about choice, which is why some people chose to be murderers for no gain other than making other players suffer.

Others choose to log out rather than lose their ship and cargo.

You can't take away one choice unless you take away all of them.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

You want to punish everybody for what a few are doing without actually preventing those few from keep on doing what they are doing. Brilliant Plan.

What is the punishment for you really? You wish to log off and you can. The only thing that you will be in the same mode you left. What punishing do you find there? Only in combat logging situation you would be affected. And you would never do that!

 

[Nitek [pl]]

The only "problem" with combat logging is that the griefers victims get away.

It is not a high priority requirement to "fix" forcing players into PvP when they don't want to participate.

I'd like to see any player that kills without warrant (not piracy, bounty hunting or PowerPlay), i.e. a griefer, get insta-killed, but I won't get what I want either.

Elite is about choice, which is why some people chose to be murderers for no gain other than making other players suffer.

Others choose to log out rather than lose their ship and cargo.

You can't take away one choice unless you take away all of them.

Aha... so legit gameplay [hunting a commander is legit] is fought by cheating. Got to love that logic :

 

[Nitek [pl]]

The only "problem" with combat logging is that the griefers victims get away.

It is not a high priority requirement to "fix" forcing players into PvP when they don't want to participate.

I'd like to see any player that kills without warrant (not piracy, bounty hunting or PowerPlay), i.e. a griefer, get insta-killed, but I won't get what I want either.

Elite is about choice, which is why some people chose to be murderers for no gain other than making other players suffer.

Others choose to log out rather than lose their ship and cargo.

You can't take away one choice unless you take away all of them.

Still nobody is forcing you to play in OPEN yes? Stay in solo, mobius - no griefers there. If you are in open don't cheat your way out. It's your choice to risk it.

 

[stripealipe]

The only "problem" with combat logging is that the griefers victims get away.

It is not a high priority requirement to "fix" forcing players into PvP when they don't want to participate.

I'd like to see any player that kills without warrant (not piracy, bounty hunting or PowerPlay), i.e. a griefer, get insta-killed, but I won't get what I want either.

Elite is about choice, which is why some people chose to be murderers for no gain other than making other players suffer.

Others choose to log out rather than lose their ship and cargo.

You can't take away one choice unless you take away all of them.

But that's crazy. Loggin out isn't playing the game as intended. Being shot for whatever reason, whether it spoils your day or not, totally is. That might annoy some, but it's completely valid.
There are many ways to either avoid this kind of thing in open, or simply play solo if that's your thing.

 

[Hampstor]

If you want fair play then you living on the wrong planet, until we can get to better one your stuck with it.

 

[Mohrgan]

But that's crazy. Loggin out isn't playing the game as intended. Being shot for whatever reason, whether it spoils your day or not, totally is. That might annoy some, but it's completely valid.
There are many ways to either avoid this kind of thing in open, or simply play solo if that's your thing.

If there are so many ways to avoid it, why does combat logging require 'harsh punishment'. Think of it as just another way to avoid the loss of a ship. CL'ing is an annoying exploit, but hardly more. It doesn't deserve the mileage it gets on the forums. Nor does it deserve some overwrought response from FD.

 

[Arthur Z.]

Personally i think that Solo and Open should have different player profiles. When I played Elite: Dangerous for the first time i made a decision to go for Open thinking that my progress won't move from Solo to Open... It was really disappointing when i found out that you can simply switch between modes.

Why Solo and Open have the same character? You can keep the unified universe but separate Solo progress from Open!

That way people will think a lot more about what they want to do in Open.

 

[Winterwalker]

No, FD has said that there is no all powerful server with which to do this. They have stated that keeping a ship in play can not be done with the current architecture.

Thanks Commander. Obviously happy to take your word on, though being a bit of a "don't know when I'm beaten" type myself, do you have any idea when they said that? I ask because now you're able to send\recall your ship to orbit from the surface. That must be using some simple form of AI (on player ship). If I'm in an instance with another player too, my sudden disappearance might seem odd to that GPU (which would be the one to take over, making me an NPC). Depending on when FD said that of course, could the architecture have developed on a bit since then? Is just a musing type of question.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Human issue.
If you Combat log then you remove any kind of risk /reward the game offers. Then you don't learn how to avoid it and then repeat cycle of lameness.
There are options though if you're getting it rough that currently exist in game so I can only suggest you learn them.
I can understand why ppl log off but seriously, learn to play the game and you won't have to.

I also know that there are players who annoy other players so when a player is outnumbered then they may RQ, simply because it's not a fair fight.
This is what Wings did and they want more...

Both sides of the coin right there.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

What some people call combat logging others call stopping a process. It's a thing we all have the implicit right to do on our computers. There is no law saying we cannot do such a thing only a company rule - and yet it causes so much drama. Technically we agree to being able to do this by accepting the Windows EULA as it is a feature of the Windows O/S required for the safe and controlled operation of your PC. Then along comes another agreement which tells you you cannot/shouldn't use these features of the O/S and if you do you will get a ban... Catch 22?

That being said the only way given to combat it is to send a report and if supported by the server logs the player is supposed to get a shadow ban, not that many people think this actually happens. Partly because it can be so hard to detect. Pulling the cord, disconnecting from a network, killing a process and Alt+F4 cannot be detected other then a loss of network signal from the client. Logs have to be used and all the reported player has to do is say they have a strange connection that drops and Frontier can do nothing as there is no actual proof, only coincidence and frequency.

Why is this not the same for the so called gankers? - But that's a different debate...

On an almost daily basis we get threads about combat logging and griefing and yet so many people are ready to jump in and say 'it's very rare'... Yet we read about it every day so maybe it's not as rare as some think and really does need to be addressed and that will only cause tears from the PvP crowd as the rod they created is used to break there own arguments.

TL;DR Gankers are the main cause of combat logging - ban them as well as the logger. Kills two birds with one stone.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Thanks Commander. Obviously happy to take your word on, though being a bit of a "don't know when I'm beaten" type myself, do you have any idea when they said that? I ask because now you're able to send\recall your ship to orbit from the surface. That must be using some simple form of AI (on player ship). If I'm in an instance with another player too, my sudden disappearance might seem odd to that GPU (which would be the one to take over, making me an NPC). Depending on when FD said that of course, could the architecture have developed on a bit since then? Is just a musing type of question.

Sandro says it here:

Hello Commanders!

This is a quick update to let you guys know what we’re looking at regarding the issue of “combat logging”.

For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

Commanders might use this exploit the moment they are interdicted or the moment before they are about to be destroyed.

Although this is flagged primarily as a multiplayer concern, the issues (and solutions) apply equally to the single player game.

First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously.

On a related, but separate track, we’re looking at introducing benefits to Commanders that persevere and stick it out through dangerous encounters, as well as general credit costs and rewards balancing.

I’m not quite ready to talk about these in more detail just now. Obviously though, they can never counter the potential costs of ship destruction, but we want to look at a range of disincentives and incentives both to counter this issue.

I hope this helps clarify our position a little.