Decent credit buff in all areas

I would mostly like to see mining and bounty hunting see some sort of buff when it comes to pay out due to the random nature of mining and the hazardous nature of bounty hunting. Also bounty hunting is the most expensive line of work to operate in and go into due to greatly increasing rebuy costs and the price to A fit most ships being incredibly high.
This doesn't mean make bounty hunters the richest in the galaxy, just a small increase once more. Last season I would get at most 1000 CR for an elite sidewinder, now I'm getting anywhere from 5000 to 8000 for an elite sidewinder. This would also be a very urgent need once the AI gets its coming upgrade as well due to the fact that combat zones and RES will be more dangerous than ever.
 
I would mostly like to see mining and bounty hunting see some sort of buff when it comes to pay out due to the random nature of mining and the hazardous nature of bounty hunting. Also bounty hunting is the most expensive line of work to operate in and go into due to greatly increasing rebuy costs and the price to A fit most ships being incredibly high.
This doesn't mean make bounty hunters the richest in the galaxy, just a small increase once more. Last season I would get at most 1000 CR for an elite sidewinder, now I'm getting anywhere from 5000 to 8000 for an elite sidewinder. This would also be a very urgent need once the AI gets its coming upgrade as well due to the fact that combat zones and RES will be more dangerous than ever.
If repair prices were as they used to be and the AI were actually difficult I'd agree with you.
I think bounty farming income is pretty much right where it needs to be in terms of a base line.
id like to see bounty hunting and conflict zones scale with pay and difficulty depending on your rank, ship class, and number of players in a wing. Spawning more enemies and tougher opponents as those quotients rise.
early on its far too easy to make a lot of money bounty farming, mid game is about right minus player number scaling, late game is a joke it's far too easy, you don't make any more money, and like the early and mid there's inverse scaling for wings.
the game has one difficulty and one profit margin. It only gets easier as you get better and your ship becomes more capable this is the case with all the professions. I think that is the single greatest failing of elite.
 
At least quadrupled, the average campaign on a typical game is 6-8 hours, after that you move one and play something else, elite is not a typical games so I reckon earning 1 billion should take 5 days at 8 hours a day, the sweet spot is around that mark.

We as a species are governed by hours, weeks, months and years, after the weeks period stuff gets stale, by a month you should be able to master any game and if you can't then the game is at fault.

hahaha almost got me
 
If repair prices were as they used to be and the AI were actually difficult I'd agree with you.
I think bounty farming income is pretty much right where it needs to be in terms of a base line.
id like to see bounty hunting and conflict zones scale with pay and difficulty depending on your rank, ship class, and number of players in a wing. Spawning more enemies and tougher opponents as those quotients rise.
early on its far too easy to make a lot of money bounty farming, mid game is about right minus player number scaling, late game is a joke it's far too easy, you don't make any more money, and like the early and mid there's inverse scaling for wings.
the game has one difficulty and one profit margin. It only gets easier as you get better and your ship becomes more capable this is the case with all the professions. I think that is the single greatest failing of elite.

You're absolutely right. AS OF RIGHT NOW bounty hunting is perfect. In a HAS RES you'll make the most money with the most risk. But that is your choice. When this AI upgrade comes and we don't see an increase in pay then bounty hunting could very possibly DIE because all the hunters can't afford to fix their stuff or rebuy their ships because the insurance money isn't cheap, even now.

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And why would I do that?
Don't fix what ain't broken, I learned, and I am BLOODY happy in a Vulture.
Aside, i refuse to become an errand boy, in whatever form: being that trading, smuggling/bringing "important data over" or the likes.
That is SO not me.

Ok see that was me. And man does trading suck. I did smuggling twice at Robigo wasting 3 hours of gameplay and losing 5 million credits in fines that were instantly docked because of getting scanned. Smuggling isn't fun. Trading isn't fun. Mining is kinda fun and exciting like opening a chest or smashing a barrel in an RPG. Combat is tons of fun with tons of thought but it doesn't pay for late game people.
 
You're absolutely right. AS OF RIGHT NOW bounty hunting is perfect. In a HAS RES you'll make the most money with the most risk. But that is your choice. When this AI upgrade comes and we don't see an increase in pay then bounty hunting could very possibly DIE because all the hunters can't afford to fix their stuff or rebuy their ships because the insurance money isn't cheap, even now.

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Ok see that was me. And man does trading suck. I did smuggling twice at Robigo wasting 3 hours of gameplay and losing 5 million credits in fines that were instantly docked because of getting scanned. Smuggling isn't fun. Trading isn't fun. Mining is kinda fun and exciting like opening a chest or smashing a barrel in an RPG. Combat is tons of fun with tons of thought but it doesn't pay for late game people.
Well another thing about making repairs more expensive again is that it will cause more people to pull the plug if they get in trouble. It will also hurt the armor meta, make income through combat more effective in small ships, and cause pvp fights to stop when the shields drop.
it will do a few positive things however, it will make a warning volley from a pirate carry more weight they won't need to blow you up just to teach you a lesson.
it will add that feeling of victory in a duel even if your opponent gets away, you know it still stings.
it will add more depth to ship ownership making what we take for granted a real concern.

however, while I am in favor of that there are a few quibbles.
1st is that large ships are not balanced correctly against small ships. They are too much of a liability if you get tanked by a group of Cobras running permanent chaff and going cold. In the old days 20% damage on a conda was equivilent to the rebuy of that wing of Cobras. That wing of Cobras you have zero chance against provided they are good pilots. Big ships need to be much tougher than they are now, chaff and running cold should not make you invulnerable. Big ships need to be balanced against wings if they make them prohibitively expensive to use them.

another thing is if you make money easy come easy go (which again I prefer over easy come never go) the ways of generating income need to be viable no matter the profession. The reason it's such a grind to some is because if they want to get ahead they are forced to trade, smuggle, bounty hunt. If none of that interests you or you've become bored with your limited options it becomes a grind.
This is why I agreed with this post despite wanting things harder, an easy come easy go mentality makes the game a lot more engaging and surprising.

Illegal activities need to make the most, or rather they need the capacity to with the greatest penalties for failure.
sandbox smuggling, piracy, long range smuggling, rare trading all need attention.
Sandbox smuggling needs to be expanded with new high risk expensive wares where a full load can often be several times the rebuy of your ship. Smuggling also needs to be profitable outside of powerplay bonuses, it's barely more profitable as it is than trading. It also needs to become a lot more risky and become a bounty offense if scanned. It needs to feel like smuggling not fast trading.

piracy needs a lot of attention as it really is the only profession in the game at the moment with actual risk, but it has nearly no reward. Adding new smuggling wares that are super expensive makes the profession more viable. Make NPCs viable targets to reduce the downtime waiting on players. Add new piracy modules and weapons for non lethal piracy to take place. Make the security responce adequate to the pirates activities, ship class, and number of players. Make anarchy space matter, big fines and big response from authorities in policed space. Make trade routes that have better profits run though anarchy space to route traffic.

rare item trading does not scale, once you're in a type 7 it dies off (not counting long distance smuggling) trading rares in open is very risky it's a great gaming experience that sadly ends so early.
i propose linking your quota of rares directly to your trade rank and removing the "refresh" of the commodity market to fill your quota. You land and buy what you can depending on your rank. Make more illegal rares and have the bounty scale if caught to be based off of the sale price you would have got for them where you got caught.

long range smuggling needs to just be scaled properly, remove the mode switching and just add a mission refresh button. Scale the profit per ton delivered linearly with your trade rank. Then it become viable without being broken for all players. Again make getting caught for smuggling a bounty offense instead of a fine. Make the police follow the rules, make the police response and skill scale. Keep it hard if not more difficult but make the police and pirates follow the same rules we do.

make it impossible to weasel out of a bounty, if you die you have to pay it, period. Don't want to pay bounties? Fly in anarchy space or keep your nose clean.

after that make all legal activities more or less equal in average income and add scaling to all professions based on rank, ship class, and number of players.
mining needs to be expanded and buffed a lot have profits scale with trade rank, it should by all rights make more than trading.
trading needs to be more dynamic, with market fluctuations in both supply and demand being influenced by what is traded. Bring in a lot of computer components and see a rise in technology based wares and commodities. Scale profit bonuses with rank.
exploration needs some serious love time per credit gain is through the floor, increase it, a lot. Add new anomalies, comets quasars ect.
salvaging, make it a proper career add sources of income, and buff them to match both terrestrial and space based salvaging.
Bounty farming, have it scale in difficulty, scale on ship class, scale per ships in a wing, and scale in reward.
bounty hunting make it even more difficult and the most rewarding, add tier 2 NPCs.
make all missions guaranteed ways of making money but make them second to their sandbox counterpart.

if all of the professions are viable, the money is easy come easy go, and the difficulty and reward scale properly what a game Elite would be. Difficult, fun, and rewarding despite your profession, ship, or skill scaling along with you. That's what blazing your own trail should be about. Not being forced to trade, smuggle, or bounty hunt.
 
No. If anything its too easy to make money. Way too easy, personally id like to see it be harder. The last HAZ RES i ran i pulled out 55 million credits in about 90 mins. It doesnt take long to buy anything, other than rep requirements.

I call .
There is no way you can kill that many ships in 90 minutes.
 
the hazardous nature of bounty hunting.

i don't know what you are talking about :-/ a recent poll in this forum showed, that most commanders die to stations, not bountyhunting. therefore the most hazardous activity will be a-b-a trading (most encounters with stations). from my experience, i nearby never get destroyed bountyhunting (and i made/make millions bountyhunting in highres and hazardous res). if i get destroyed in npc combat (wich happened 3 or 4 times), it is due to railgun-AspE in combatzones.
 
i don't know what you are talking about :-/ a recent poll in this forum showed, that most commanders die to stations, not bountyhunting. therefore the most hazardous activity will be a-b-a trading (most encounters with stations). from my experience, i nearby never get destroyed bountyhunting (and i made/make millions bountyhunting in highres and hazardous res). if i get destroyed in npc combat (wich happened 3 or 4 times), it is due to railgun-AspE in combatzones.

That' doesn't really mean its dangerous, just that most people are utterly incompetent.
 
It's all about where one wants to go in the game and how much effort they are willing to provide to get there. I have a brand new spiffy Imperial Cutter, but it will take me many hours of game play to come up with the credits to get it A-rated. Making this easier only devalues the appreciation of what I have accomplished getting there. Meanwhile there are smuggling missions and lucrative CGs that offer opportunities to accelerate this goal. I think that FD has dialed it in pretty well.
 
It's all about where one wants to go in the game and how much effort they are willing to provide to get there. I have a brand new spiffy Imperial Cutter, but it will take me many hours of game play to come up with the credits to get it A-rated. Making this easier only devalues the appreciation of what I have accomplished getting there. Meanwhile there are smuggling missions and lucrative CGs that offer opportunities to accelerate this goal. I think that FD has dialed it in pretty well.
Now imagine for a second that you hate trading, smuggling, and combat but for some reason still want the cutter (not that it's great at combat anyway) Maybe you like the look of it, or you're really into mining or you want to take really cool screen shots when out exploring, perhaps you loathe engaging NPCs and wish to make your money entirely on the backs of others as a pirate.
imagine if your options of making money involved none of the ways people make money in this game, or at least not at a real pace. Then imagine to reach your goal of the cutter and A rating it you were forced to do an activity you do not want to do for hours and hour and hours. Or you refused to do so and spent significantly longer doing these tasks which are fun to you but have substantially less in terms of income.
you still have a min maxers mentality, but you refuse to do the activities that make the most money for whatever reason.
would you still think that it's dialed in right?

Its one thing if you enjoy the profitable ways of making money but put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't.
 
I'd like to see a reduction of all ship-related prices instead. Refund all players who own assets for which prices will go down. Then implement mechanics which introduce running costs, like ship crew members, so that larger (and in theory more expensive) ships require a higher income to operate. Players in big ships should not fear a high insurance cost, they should know beforehand that going to war in a big ship is going to cost. Finally, balance out the game professions which currently make obscene amounts of money compared to the others.

Yeah so when I am currently in my Python I have maintain a credits/hour ratio in order not to constantly lose money, just for using the ship (not dying or getting severely damaged)? And the only alternative is go back and switch to a cheaper ship? No thank you.
 
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Yeah so when I am currently in my Python I have maintain a credits/hour ratio in order not to constantly lose money, just for using the ship (not dying or getting severely damaged)? And the only alternative is go back and switch to a cheaper ship? No thank you.

You could just park it and switch to a cheaper-to-fly ship if all you're gonna do if faff about. And by faffing about I mean actually doing noting else that sightseeing the bubble.

Whenever you are actually doing stuff in your Python (mining, fighting, hauling etc.) that activity will cover the running cost of the Python and leave you with some credits to spare towards your next ship, upgrade or whatever (which is supposed to be cheaper than now).

Right now all the money we make is hoarded towards the next ship, and because ships/equipment are the only money sink, the prices become prohibitive to players who want to engage in less profitable activities or enjoy different ships sooner. It's not like the game has 50 different Cobra-sized ships to choose from, the only way is up, and the only way up is through grind.
 
You could just park it and switch to a cheaper-to-fly ship if all you're gonna do if faff about. And by faffing about I mean actually doing noting else that sightseeing the bubble.

Whenever you are actually doing stuff in your Python (mining, fighting, hauling etc.) that activity will cover the running cost of the Python and leave you with some credits to spare towards your next ship, upgrade or whatever (which is supposed to be cheaper than now).

Right now all the money we make is hoarded towards the next ship, and because ships/equipment are the only money sink, the prices become prohibitive to players who want to engage in less profitable activities or enjoy different ships sooner. It's not like the game has 50 different Cobra-sized ships to choose from, the only way is up, and the only way up is through grind.

The question is, what is the gameplay purpose of such kind of running costs? If you are earning more than the running costs, it is simply a reduction in earnings. If you earn less, it is a penalty on not doing something for your credits/hour ratio.

The main difference is that suddenly everyone has to worry about cr/h ratios, not just those who want to optimize it.
 
Now imagine for a second that you hate trading, smuggling, and combat but for some reason still want the cutter (not that it's great at combat anyway) Maybe you like the look of it, or you're really into mining or you want to take really cool screen shots when out exploring, perhaps you loathe engaging NPCs and wish to make your money entirely on the backs of others as a pirate.
imagine if your options of making money involved none of the ways people make money in this game, or at least not at a real pace. Then imagine to reach your goal of the cutter and A rating it you were forced to do an activity you do not want to do for hours and hour and hours. Or you refused to do so and spent significantly longer doing these tasks which are fun to you but have substantially less in terms of income.
you still have a min maxers mentality, but you refuse to do the activities that make the most money for whatever reason.
would you still think that it's dialed in right?

Its one thing if you enjoy the profitable ways of making money but put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't.


I'm trying to understand the point you are trying to make but not getting it. Are you looking for an easier way to obtain a Cutter and upgrade it without trading, smuggling or combat to get there? Is a new player having more issues trying to advance to get to a Cutter if that is their desire? I'm all for anyone taking advantage of the game play to accelerate their goals a little sooner such as working CGs and shadow smuggling and even Power Play as it exists in the game. But lowering the module costs for a Cutter or any other high end ship is not part of the plan. What is the point you are trying to make?
 
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It's already stupidly easy to make money. You can be in an Anaconda in less than a week now. Ridiculous. No, there doesn't need to be a buff to credit generation. It has never been so easy to make money.
 
The real rewards should come from exploiting the procedurally generated universe, but it seems every time we do that, we want to nerf the hell out of it (Seeking Goods, Archon-Torval slave runs to name a couple).
 
The question is, what is the gameplay purpose of such kind of running costs? If you are earning more than the running costs, it is simply a reduction in earnings. If you earn less, it is a penalty on not doing something for your credits/hour ratio.

The purpose is to facilitate bigger ships to newer players without necessarily forcing them through a specific grind or a profitable profession which they don't want to engage into (I'm mainly thinking about LRS). A reduction in prices coupled with a proportionate reduction in earnings brings us nowhere - it will take just as long to grind for a Type 9 for example.

If you bring prices down alone, that will just shorten the game and cheapen the experience, like many have said in this thread. Adding running costs gives meaning to credit acquisition, which is central to the game at the moment.

The main difference is that suddenly everyone has to worry about cr/h ratios, not just those who want to optimize it.

Not necessarily. Smaller ships could have really low running costs (and prices closer to what they are now, no need to cheapen the 32k Sidewinder). Big ships on the other hand should have their captains worry about income. If you earn less than what you big ship is capable of earning, then you need to put that big ship to work, or you have the option to switch to a smaller ship.

There is also the scenario where someone uses a small ship in a very profitable activity (like LRS), then uses the cash to fund his big ship operation costs in a fruitless activity, for a while. Nothing wrong with that, eventually they will either have to park that ship or use it productively. Right now we have commanders who own the largest ships in the game, who have billions in cash, and no way to spend it.
 
Maybe you like the look of it, or you're really into mining or you want to take really cool screen shots when out exploring, perhaps you loathe engaging NPCs and wish to make your money entirely on the backs of others as a pirate.

Its one thing if you enjoy the profitable ways of making money but put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't.

Well if someone is into mining, he can make a lot money too.
If you push out most option to make some money, you should not complain taking ages to get money.
On a side note to get to Elite you have to do killing, trading and exploring anyway.

It takes some effort to get nice things. Elite is a game that rewards effort with better ships and ranks. Basicly you can set goals and archive em, but you have to do something for that.

If you want some easy way without effort, then Elite is not the game for you. Better switch to pay 4 win games and use your big wallet.
 
It's already stupidly easy to make money. You can be in an Anaconda in less than a week now. Ridiculous. No, there doesn't need to be a buff to credit generation. It has never been so easy to make money.

Other than doing Robigo runs, nothing really changed about making money. It is still a very long grind to a Conda.
 
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