The recent anti pvp ideas concern me. Reasons and "better" suggestions inside

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I think the only real issue with pvp is the lack of consequences. It's been posted about 100s if not 1000s of times.

If an elite pilot can sit in everate all day popping newbies, who barely know how to fly, and then just go about his business like nothing happened, that just shows that the game is currently broken from that perspective.
I totally get that Elite is Dangerous, I don't want the game to hold my hand everywhere I go. But seal clubbing ruins the game for the seals... And us too. Less players is less life in the galaxy, and if ED gets a name for being 'rubbish', it'll harm FDs future development too.

The solution is simple.
Police response in SOME systems should be INSTANT and DEADLY. Not just a single Viper mk3 showing up 3 minutes later.
It won't prevent seal clubbing, but if you're sat in everate, and you attack a noob, you'll get a massive relentless response from the police. And killing any system security, should result in an even stronger response, and should escalate until he attacker has to flee or die.
But the basic response to any unwanted attack in a noob or high security system should be at least 2 Anacondas, and 6 Vultures, and a mix of eagles and vipers, or the faction equivalent, all CZ style ships too. Super tough... A single player would find that hard to beat. A wing could cope, but if you kill one, another wing of the same shows up. And so on.
Sure, it's open to abuse, Trick noobs in to firing on your first.etc. but it worked well in Eve.
Stations should shoot on sight too.
All high security and noob systems should be like that. But only in response to pvp murder. (Or assassinations become impossible)

 

[Cosmos]

I've got to admit the endless barrage against playing a particular way in Open is a concern. Yet its been going on as far back as I can remember. I really do take exception to the way adversarial play is maligned. There is after all, solo and private group.

PvE flags, transponders, ugh, and the constant anti 'griefing' lobbying.. Its tiresome.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Some people play games like Battlefield, they don't expect to go into there with a water pistol and expect to come out the other side. Games like this designed to test your patience, awareness and ability to deal with consequences.

Thing is - this isn't Battlefield. And FDEV have created Arena/CQC for those who wish to play Battlefield In Space.

What's the point in developing a game with a Background Simulation, has Commodity Markets for Traders, all sorts of in-game stuff going on, in that case?

Like I have been saying repeatedly, and which you don't appear to have registered; In-context PvP in Open is expected by everyone, and no-one is saying it isn't!

Of course there will be abuse from other players, that's the drawback of any multiplayer game. Win some lose some,

Disagree with this, as unfettered abuse of the game going unpunished is a game design problem, and no amount of trying to wave it off or dismissal is going to change that.

but I think it is important to realize that if this was actually real and we were in the depths of space flying our multi million dollar ships, you would no doubt come across some unsavoury characters.

Who would be hunted down by some kind of authority and killed or receive enough of a punishment to dissuade them from their behaviour. Which is not happening in this game.

Regards o7

 

[Raylion]

I'm not a PVP player nor am I anti PVP but if I go to many other multiplayer games they very often have distinct environments for PVP and for PVE. Why is it so hard for Elite to have the same?

I would like to randomly meet other players and enjoy a co-operative playstyle but instead I'm segregated off into Solo or Private Groups because the game doesn't offer Open PVE.

If Open PVE was available I would leave Solo/Private Groups and play there. This in no way impacts the current Open group because I don't play in that group ever.

PVP Players have their Open mulitplayer group and I'm happy they have that environment...now why can't I have my Open PVE Environment given PVP players will never encounter me in the current Open group?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I've got to admit the endless barrage against playing a particular way in Open is a concern. Yet its been going on as far back as I can remember. I really do take exception to the way adversarial play is maligned. There is after all, solo and private group.

PvE flags, transponders, ugh, and the constant anti 'griefing' lobbying.. Its tiresome.

Are you advocating that indiscriminate Arena-type gankfest gameplay in the main game is healthy for the game overall?

And - once again - no one is wanting in-context PvP to go away.

I am only talking about PvP-for-sport ganking being imposed in an out of context manner.

It's awesome how no one has actually tried to counter that one specific point - that's because my point is factually true I suppose. Hence, inconvenient to certain player types

Regards o7

 

[bootsam]

I would expect those events to be rare in the extreme in the 33rd century Dubsdj. BTW, this is not BF4. Nor anything remotely like it. I'm fairly useful in BF4 and if we were back in the days of Quake, I may kick your butt as I was extremely useful there. This game is not those. Its not a primary PvP. Its a PvE with some PvP tacked on, but the PvP has become dominant to some who have misinterpreted the game. Elite was never a PvP.

mmike, but your gameplay impinges upon and relies upon others gameplay which is at 180° to yours, hence the issues. This is not CoD, CS or BF. I play those games when I choose to and want PvP. I choose this game for other reasons which do not involve PvP. But if I am in a fully armed Vulty and a Conda interdicts me, then fine. I have a fighting chance. But if I'm in an unarmed trade vessel, you may as well be spawn camping. Theres no sport in that.

Meaningful PvP is fine, wasteful PvP is just ganking and of no use to anyone except to drive players away. If the PvP gank crew tempered their actions in the spirit of the game, I suspect you'd see more people in open. But they wont and we will wait in solo/group until theyve got bored and gone off to SC.

 

[mmike]

i have never EVER attacked unarmed trade vessel that is not pledged to zahary or felicia.

but i assume that there are players capable of doing that. so? we should stop this game because of them?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

i have never EVER attacked unarmed trade vessel that is not pledged to zahary or felicia.

but i assume that there are players capable of doing that. so? we should stop this game because of them?

Good for you! You're actually playing in the context of the game!

You still don't appear to have understood though that indiscriminate out of context ganking is toxic behaviour for Open.

Regards o7

 

[piy]

I was doing a spot of trade the other day and a player kicked me out of fsd. ...without saying a word he shot my shealds out....Hatch braker.....I lost some cargo. He deployed limpets to scoop them while I got away. This player was a pirate. I LOVED it! He left me to run while he got what he wanted. Now I could have done with the police showing up as I was in a high security system. And I really do belive that's all the games needs. Now I know there's lunatics that kill new players. If that's what thay want to do....so be it. But I think a better "call for aid" system would be welcome. I think a lot of commander's would love to be able to quickly get to and help new players being attacked. Police ourselves.

o7

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I was doing a spot of trade the other day and a player kicked me out of fsd. ...without saying a word he shot my shealds out....Hatch braker.....I lost some cargo. He deployed limpets to scoop them while I got away. This player was a pirate. I LOVED it! He left me to run while he got what he wanted. Now I could have done with the police showing up as I was in a high security system. And I really do belive that's all the games needs. Now I know there's lunatics that kill new players. If that's what thay want to do....so be it. But I think a better "call for aid" system would be welcome. I think a lot of commander's would love to be able to quickly get to and help new players being attacked. Police ourselves.

o7

See, no one has a problem with that. That's a perfectly good example of in-context gameplay.

Regards o7

 

[mmike]

Good for you! You're actually playing in the context of the game!
You still don't appear to have understood though that indiscriminate out of context ganking is toxic behaviour for Open.
Regards o7

i do, but there is no known solution for that, other than GEAR YOURSELLF UP AND GET READY!



this game can be tough and hostile. it is not because of it's core mechanics of this game or any game at all. it's because it is MULTIPLAY game that allows PVP. all multiplay games that allows pvp have the same issues - gankers, griefers and trolls. it's because gamers likes to gank, grief and troll.
elite is, like no other game, one of rare games that allow pve only mode - and it is called SOLO.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

life is full of gankers, so the games are too.

why is so dificult for you guys to play in solo? what is the problem of playing in solo? you have everything you want in solo.

Life is not full of gankers... Live a little and you'll discover this to be the case, I can only assume the comment is made for added drama.

You seem to me to be the sort of player who enjoys PvP? Well why are you not playing CQC? That's designed for pure PvP... and yet there you are in Open. Whats so hard about going to CQC? You have everything you want in CQC?

EDIT:

i do, but there is no known solution for that, other than GEAR YOURSELLF UP AND GET READY!

this game can be tough and hostile. it is not because of it's core mechanics of this game or any game at all. it's because it is MULTIPLAY game that allows PVP. all multiplay games that allows pvp have the same issues - gankers, griefers and trolls. it's because gamers likes to gank, grief and troll.
elite is, like no other game, one of rare games that allow pve only mode - and it is called SOLO.

And your off again... No they do not! You may like to play in such a manner but not every gamer does. You are making comments that have no basis in reality other than your own. Most Multiplayer games involve teamwork and cooperation, sure games like CoD have what you describe but they are pure PvP games, what else is to be expected... But even in that genre the mentality you speak of just does not exist.

Why?

Because most of the game which mix PvP and PvE either split the areas or servers to keep each group separate to allow people to play how they choose. Rarely does any game make the gamble of allowing PvE and PvP to exists alongside each other.

30+ Years in the gaming teaches you about gamer's habits and you are miles wide of the mark.

 

[Sandmann]

Life is not full of gankers... Live a little and you'll discover this to be the case, I can only assume the comment is made for added drama.

You seem to me to be the sort of player who enjoys PvP? Well why are you not playing CQC? That's designed for pure PvP... and yet there you are in Open. Whats so hard about going to CQC? You have everything you want in CQC?

Possibly because, as he hinted at, he doesn't enjoy PvP so much as ganking.

 

[Vorthax]

This would be a good start. I would also suggest that if you have a bad enough reputation (regardless of bounty status) that you wouldn't be able to buy or sell ships within a 25 LY radius. This would make it harder for people to clear their bounties by swapping into a sucidewinder.

It would also be nice if cops didn't just try to kill you all the time, but actually removed credits from your account upon a successful scan. This could impact smuggling and other petty crimes as well as unpaid bounties. The requirement that you have to respawn in a system to be forced to repay outstanding fines is a bit too narrow of a punishment to useful or effective.


These would reduce the amount of ganking and bullying, since it would suddenly be somewhat more costly and time consuming to be a jerk. At the same time they could increase the incentives for more "healthy" human interaction by having events where people could legitimately engage with willing opponents such as actual Wars or competitive CGs where the sides were more evenly matched than the current 1-sided combat CGs.

The system needs 3 components:
- PvP combat reputation, based on chess ELO like ranking - to encourage picking "your own size or better" enemies
- separately tracked positive and negative reputation - so you accumulate a history
- revamped current criminal status / reputation / penalties / insurance e.g.:

• lower the insurance "tax" on traders/clean players to encourage playing in Open as a content for pirates
• penalize destroying unwanted ships
• make it easier to get cargo as a pirate, FSD cooldown is too short and there are no pirate specific tools (e.g. non-lethal weapons)
• change CL mechanic by adding random 3rd client as a referee, leave the ship in the instance (still a P2P solution!)
• make it easier to BH - mission assisted BH? criminal location broadcasted by NPC? "teleport to beacon" missions?
• if you are treated as a "terrorist" by a faction, you should be a priority target for the navy, landing on stations not possible etc. Send a capital ship + 2 wings of Anacondas after seal clubbers, check if it changes the behavior.

We need a working ecosystem.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I was doing a spot of trade the other day and a player kicked me out of fsd. ...without saying a word he shot my shealds out....Hatch braker.....I lost some cargo. He deployed limpets to scoop them while I got away. This player was a pirate. I LOVED it! He left me to run while he got what he wanted. Now I could have done with the police showing up as I was in a high security system. And I really do belive that's all the games needs. Now I know there's lunatics that kill new players. If that's what thay want to do....so be it. But I think a better "call for aid" system would be welcome. I think a lot of commander's would love to be able to quickly get to and help new players being attacked. Police ourselves.

o7

o7 glad things went as intended!
I have no issues with any PvP related attack that has meaning.
Pirating is perfectly fine. Random acts of violence, fine, annoying, but fine. Lol
Seal clubbing is NOT fine. Most noobs dont know anything about how to defend themselves, high waking, etc.
And most choose Open to gain access to players willing to help, which they don't get in solo, and probably have no idea about mobius.

For everyone saying "play in solo if you don't like it", that no solution to the people who want to see other people.
And open PvE mode would be an OK solution, it's more or less just mobious though. Maybe just rename it to PvE open. Lol

 

[Raylion]

life is full of gankers, so the games are too.

why is so dificult for you guys to play in solo? what is the problem of playing in solo? you have everything you want in solo.

I play in Solo all the time but what it doesn't offer is the chance to randomly meet other like minded people and play co-cooperatively.

Here's a novel idea, how about a PVE Open group so that all those sitting in Solo can move to the PVE Open group and play together. Has zero impact on the current Open environment and would give a better experience to those currently playing on their own.

 

[piy]

The only problem I can see with a pve group is that the honorable pirate that attacked me would have no player targets to pirate. Thay all would be in pve. It would brake HIS immersion.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I like how players are told they should face the consequences of choosing Open, but once in Open anything you do should be consequence free.

It's always other players who should face consequences isn't it?

 

[NeilF]

That is absolutely never going to happen - and thank goodness. I for one disagree with that suggestion wholeheartedly.

Regards o7

You disagree with what?

Heavily penalising mindless/pointless destruction of one CMDR by another CMDR?

Offering more interesting PvP related missions/tasks for those interested in them? With the side effect many of these same missions/tasks would also be available with a PvE slant too for those not interested in PvP?

Or the suggestion if OPEN was does more constructively it would almost render SOLO and GROUP pointless, such that they would be?

 

[Sandmann]

The only problem I can see with a pve group is that the honorable pirate that attacked me would have no player targets to pirate. Thay all would be in pve. It would brake HIS immersion.

There's no reason you couldn't have a "consensual pvp switch" or something in the pve mode... or combat areas/warzones etc where consensual pvp was implied. That's how mobious works now.