Open letter to Frontier

[Blackcompany]

People liking to play PvE does not mean they are rubbish at games. People liking PvE also does not mean they don't want any danger, risk or challenge and they will go ragequit if one of those will happen.

Exactly this.

I dont play in Open. I DO play in Mobius. And occasionally, when it suits my desires or faction related needs, I will even venture into Conflict Zones. Wherein, mind you, PVP is allowed even in Mobius, as it is consensual.

I dont play in Open not because I fear challenge. I dont play in Open because I like Immersion. And numerous commanders "role playing" and "pretending" to be mild psychotics who enjoy making other people miserable is an immersion killer. As is the lack of consequences such a psychotic person currently enjoys in the universe.

 

[Jockey79]

To ask a stupid question;

As Zac said no rules have been broken and it is down to those who create private groups to police them...

Why did Frontier get involved in removing people from the Mobius Group?

If they've done nothing wrong, and it's up to Mobius to decide who is in his group, why didn't he remove them?

[Edit, ok 2 stupid questions]

 

[mbar]

To ask a stupid question;

As Zac said no rules have been broken and it is down to those who create private groups to police them...

Why did Frontier get involved in removing people from the Mobius Group?

If they've done nothing wrong, and it's up to Mobius to decide who is in his group, why didn't he remove them?

[Edit, ok 2 stupid questions]

FD are involved because of technical issues. Mobius group has reached a number limit. It is impossible for Mobius to add or remove players until this gets fixed. I can't even leave the group because of the technical issue.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that psychos are irritating whether they're npc or human. Getting jumped 1v4 because you're wanted is your fault. Getting jumped because you exist? That's annoying, and shame on FD for making poor design choices and leaving them as they are for so long.

I'm not talking about what is irritating though, I'm talking about people who can't stand being beaten by other players because of whatever personal issues they have. Personally, I'd love the challenge of being jumped and if I survive, good on me and if I die well it's not really an inconvenience is it. I loose some credits and start back at my last destination.

If I was into trading, I might lose an hours trade (idk what traders lose) but considering I probably would have done hundreds of hours anyone, I don't see what the big deal is of losing an hour (oh noes I lost an hour of watching netflix - that was 0.01% of my total trade time ruined by that griefer grrrrrr *shakes fist*)

For me, the closest is CZ's which are boringly easy to farm. If I lost a million in combat bonds that say had taken me half an hour to get would I care - no - did I care the last time I died because I got so bored I forgot I was in one and died - no)

 

[Sandmann]

If I was into trading, I might lose an hours trade (idk what traders lose) but considering I probably would have done hundreds of hours anyone, I don't see what the big deal is of losing an hour (oh noes I lost an hour of watching netflix - that was 0.01% of my total trade time ruined by that griefer grrrrrr *shakes fist*)

Closer to a week's trading, depending of course on how often you play. Could easily be more.

 

[Jex =TE=]

When Frontier will add gameplay to this game?
Mechanic, graphisms (they nerf it at all update xD) ect are here.
But there is still no gameplay ELSE RP in your Head.

And the award to most off topic post goes to......


drrrrrrrrum roll please!

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From my perspective, fighting a 'skilled' AI pilot would be fun. So if the fun lasts longer, where's the foul?

Read the last part in parentheses

 

[KaizoMK]

I'm not talking about what is irritating though, I'm talking about people who can't stand being beaten by other players because of whatever personal issues they have. Personally, I'd love the challenge of being jumped and if I survive, good on me and if I die well it's not really an inconvenience is it. I loose some credits and start back at my last destination.

If I was into trading, I might lose an hours trade (idk what traders lose) but considering I probably would have done hundreds of hours anyone, I don't see what the big deal is of losing an hour (oh noes I lost an hour of watching netflix - that was 0.01% of my total trade time ruined by that griefer grrrrrr *shakes fist*)

For me, the closest is CZ's which are boringly easy to farm. If I lost a million in combat bonds that say had taken me half an hour to get would I care - no - did I care the last time I died because I got so bored I forgot I was in one and died - no)

But you get nothing from the experience. It's not a consequence from any action except for merely playing in open. If I die, it should be my fault. If not, it's FD's fault. That's an important aspect of game design unless you're playing a rogue-like, in which case you were literally destined die.

Death for the most part in ED is justified - the only time I died and didn't feel that way is when the galaxy map took literally minutes to load and I died due to lost canopy. That was FD's fault. Every other time felt like a consequence of my own poor choices or lack of skill, and I've died a lot. FD has done an excellent job with this, and clearly they're aiming to fix this problem now.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Closer to a week's trading, depending of course on how often you play. Could easily be more.

So you don't save you progress for a week? If you got killed, you're saying you would lose an entire week of gameplay?

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But you get nothing from the experience. It's not a consequence from any action except for merely playing in open. If I die, it should be my fault. If not, it's FD's fault. That's an important aspect of game design unless you're playing a rogue-like, in which case you were literally destined die.

Death for the most part in ED is justified - the only time I died and didn't feel that way is when the galaxy map took literally minutes to load and I died due to lost canopy. That was FD's fault. Every other time felt like a consequence of my own poor choices or lack of skill, and I've died a lot. FD has done an excellent job with this, and clearly they're aiming to fix this problem now.

Then you get nothing from being killed by an AI and if you can't put up with that either, you need to find a different game to play.

I need to add to this - nope, it doesn't have to always be your fault I'm not sure where you got that from? The galaxy map failing to load and you dying is not FD's fault. I can see why you can't stand players beating you because it seems to me you'll make just about any excuse to blame anyone but yourself for failing.

How do you know it wasn't your crappy computer failing to load the galaxy map (an issue I've never had btw) - why are you blaming FD here on this one (and believe me, I'm not white knight of FD here but it seems you're being a little unfair)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If I was into trading, I might lose an hours trade (idk what traders lose) but considering I probably would have done hundreds of hours anyone, I don't see what the big deal is of losing an hour (oh noes I lost an hour of watching netflix - that was 0.01% of my total trade time ruined by that griefer grrrrrr *shakes fist*)

how can you come to a conclusion when you have no idea how much traders lose.

I do!, and it is potentially more than an hrs play.
I make under 3000 profit per ton trading (2600 one way, 300 return leg) which works out around 1.3 million per run in my T9.

the rebuy cost on my T9 AND on a full load of imperial slaves is in the region of 8.5 million (ship) and around 6.1 million for my load.

that is almost a 15 million loss.

So i need to do 12 runs to make back my loss, and hope to dodge the same weed again. given a T9 has a laden jump range of around 7LY choices for dodging these types in open are limited......... esp as they only need to "get" me once in 12 runs.

traders lose an inordinately huge amount compared to any other profession, and after the mental boosting of all illegal professions it is totally imbalanced.

 

[KaizoMK]

So you don't save you progress for a week? If you got killed, you're saying you would lose an entire week of gameplay?

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Then you get nothing from being killed by an AI and if you can't put up with that either, you need to find a different game to play.

I need to add to this - nope, it doesn't have to always be your fault I'm not sure where you got that from? The galaxy map failing to load and you dying is not FD's fault. I can see why you can't stand players beating you because it seems to me you'll make just about any excuse to blame anyone but yourself for failing.

How do you know it wasn't your crappy computer failing to load the galaxy map (an issue I've never had btw) - why are you blaming FD here on this one (and believe me, I'm not white knight of FD here but it seems you're being a little unfair)

You're missing the point. You get consequence. AI don't attack unless provoked, or you're wanted, or have cargo, or hate your PP alignment. These are choices you make and have to deal with. What's the consequence of getting killed for no reason at all?

Also, the galaxy map not loading used to be a serious problem and FD fixed it.

I don't get why you don't think that death shouldn't always be your fault.....otherwise what's the point of death? There isn't.

 

[Jockey79]

FD are involved because of technical issues. Mobius group has reached a number limit. It is impossible for Mobius to add or remove players until this gets fixed. I can't even leave the group because of the technical issue.

Well, as FD clearly didn't design the game to support such large groups (proven by the "technical issues" you mention), as it is causing problems perhaps they need to lower the cap on groups and cull that one down to size. At least until they can sort out proper group management tools and the raise the cap in a way so they don't have to be involved at all and it does not effect the game in any way.

Apart from you not being able to leave the group (should you want to) it does make one wonder what other side effects there are to a malfunctioning part of the game. Plus I'd rather FD staff be doing other things than private group management (as they've made it clear it is down to the group maker to manage the group), I'm sure there is more important things for FD staff to be doing with 2.1 soon to be out.

 

[Y'Berion]

It is a puzzle is it not? Am I not allowed to decide when and how I want to close the game I bought on my pc? Am I not allowed to decide when to sever the connection to the internet whenever I want?

You didn't buy the game. You are just renting access to servers running it.

 

[crushdepth]

I'm not talking about what is irritating though, I'm talking about people who can't stand being beaten by other players because of whatever personal issues they have. Personally, I'd love the challenge of being jumped and if I survive, good on me and if I die well it's not really an inconvenience is it. I loose some credits and start back at my last destination.

If I was into trading, I might lose an hours trade (idk what traders lose) but considering I probably would have done hundreds of hours anyone, I don't see what the big deal is of losing an hour (oh noes I lost an hour of watching netflix - that was 0.01% of my total trade time ruined by that griefer grrrrrr *shakes fist*)

For me, the closest is CZ's which are boringly easy to farm. If I lost a million in combat bonds that say had taken me half an hour to get would I care - no - did I care the last time I died because I got so bored I forgot I was in one and died - no)

Losing a full trade ship takes 2-3 hours of GRINDING to replace, to satisfy about 2 minutes of attacker jollies.

 

[Sandmann]

So you don't save you progress for a week? If you got killed, you're saying you would lose an entire week of gameplay?

Depending on what's in your cargo hold, what missions and exploration data you have, and how often you get to play you could easilly lose a week's progress to a random seal clubber, yeah.

 

[Jockey79]

AI don't attack unless provoked, or you're wanted, or have cargo, or hate your PP alignment.

Erm... wrong.

I've had NPCs attack me for no reason at all. Been flying about in an empty Hauler or Sidewinder travelling to founders to buy a new ship and been pulled over a few times.

No cargo,
No reputation standings,
No Power Play connections,

In fact, almost every time I'm in the founders system I get pulled over and I only go there to buy a new ship from time to time and all factions are "neutral" to me.
Also had an NPC message saying they want my "cargo" when I don't have any - I was in a Viper.

 

[KaizoMK]

Erm... wrong.

I've had NPCs attack me for no reason at all. Been flying about in an empty Hauler or Sidewinder travelling to founders to buy a new ship and been pulled over a few times.

No cargo,
No reputation standings,
No Power Play connections,

In fact, almost every time I'm in the founders system I get pulled over and I only go there to buy a new ship from time to time and all factions are "neutral" to me.
Also had an NPC message saying they want my "cargo" when I don't have any - I was in a Viper.

Pulled over? By police interdiction or by psycho murderers?

Either way, isn't that just a useless annoyance that should be eliminated? Especially if you're being hassled for cargo you don't have.

The police thing sort of serves a purpose, in that they might pull over anyone who isn't at least friendly for scans. Although, they can get everything they need to know from you in sc, barring cargo scans

 

[Sandmann]

You didn't buy the game. You are just renting access to servers running it.

That analogy only works on subscription games. If you buy a "season" of ED you have the right to play that season on their server forever without further payment.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You didn't buy the game. You are just renting access to servers running it.

That's fine. But renting access to their server does not mean yielding control over my pc or connection. These are still mine to control.

So my question remains. Why is Combat Logging something Frontier Development needs to get involved in, while infiltrating a PvE group for the sole intent of PvP in order to provoke a response is not?

From Zac's official response:

However, "griefing" in itself isn't against the rules. There is no evidence that I can see that suggests that the players in question altered the game in any way in order to gain an unfair advantage. In addition, groups are made in a way that allow players to join together and play in a way they want. However, it is the admins of those groups that manage which Commanders have access to the group and which do not.

The bolded part is also true for Combat Logging. So if that's the criteria, both should be handled equally.

Mind you: I have never and will never Combat Log and find the procedure highly gamey. Which I detest when I'm playing a game.

 

[Sandmann]

Losing a full trade ship takes 2-3 hours of GRINDING to replace, to satisfy about 2 minutes of attacker jollies.

2-3 hours? You're either a much better trader than me or you have more play time. Possibly both.

 

[Jockey79]

Depending on what's in your cargo hold, what missions and exploration data you have, and how often you get to play you could easilly lose a week's progress to a random seal clubber, yeah.

Like those folks killed at Sag A*

Took a few days to get out there, got seal clubbed, then back home without any data to sell and a re-buy to pay out.
They lost 4- 5 days game time and the money on their ships.