A Game At Odds with Itself and Why

Bumping because i like the OP. Thoughtful post which is virtually impossible for the white knights to argue against. Braben done goofed when he said the things he said in the interview. That one interview was more revealing than 2015s entire year of pointless Newsletters.

He shouldve stayed true to Frontier Fashion and kept it more vague and convoluted. Id be lying if i said it wasnt a bit irritating to read.
 
+rep to the OP. No point to say more and trigger the same replies from the same people that will tell me: "this game is what it is dont ask for other things or play something else".
 
Thank you all for your replies. In favor of and against. Its good to see the community come together for a discussion this...sensitive...in nature and have it last this long. I mean here we are, verging on Page 23, and the thread is not locked. We've been passionate at times, on both or all side of this discussion. We've gotten heated. But we have kept things sufficiently civil to go this long and on today's internet, well, that's something, isnt it?

I want to take a moment and thank Mr. Braben and Frontier. And the community. I often look to those things developers do wrong where games I love are concerned. But right now the entire Frontier team deserve recognition. They have not locked this thread; they have made no effort to steer or influence or ban this discussion from these, their own forums. Here we are, critical of the game they made in their own backyward and they sit there, perhaps watching, perhaps taking it on the chin. Or perhaps not.

But whatever they are doing, and however they have chosen to go about it, they are doing it with grace and panache. Whatever perceived mistakes might or might not have been made thus far in developing Elite, I admire their handling of these discussions and their forums to a degree I cannot express in words.

So thank you Mr. Braben and Frontier. No, your game is NOT perfect. Yes, I think there's room for much in the way of depth and improvement. But your flight simulator? Blimey; I'd rather fly your spaceships from station to station or pew pew with your lasers ALL DAY LONG over and above the - quite literally - HUNDREDS of other games in my collection. So take that as a compliment, and dont give up. Your flight model is perfect (well, there IS the Cutter, apparently; not that I can afford one mind so I dont really know myself) and you can always build on that.

So thanks to you, and Kudos, Frontier. I'd Rep you if I could.
 
Thank you all for your replies. In favor of and against. Its good to see the community come together for a discussion this...sensitive...in nature and have it last this long. I mean here we are, verging on Page 23, and the thread is not locked. We've been passionate at times, on both or all side of this discussion. We've gotten heated. But we have kept things sufficiently civil to go this long and on today's internet, well, that's something, isnt it?

I want to take a moment and thank Mr. Braben and Frontier. And the community. I often look to those things developers do wrong where games I love are concerned. But right now the entire Frontier team deserve recognition. They have not locked this thread; they have made no effort to steer or influence or ban this discussion from these, their own forums. Here we are, critical of the game they made in their own backyward and they sit there, perhaps watching, perhaps taking it on the chin. Or perhaps not.

But whatever they are doing, and however they have chosen to go about it, they are doing it with grace and panache. Whatever perceived mistakes might or might not have been made thus far in developing Elite, I admire their handling of these discussions and their forums to a degree I cannot express in words.

So thank you Mr. Braben and Frontier. No, your game is NOT perfect. Yes, I think there's room for much in the way of depth and improvement. But your flight simulator? Blimey; I'd rather fly your spaceships from station to station or pew pew with your lasers ALL DAY LONG over and above the - quite literally - HUNDREDS of other games in my collection. So take that as a compliment, and dont give up. Your flight model is perfect (well, there IS the Cutter, apparently; not that I can afford one mind so I dont really know myself) and you can always build on that.

So thanks to you, and Kudos, Frontier. I'd Rep you if I could.

Indeed, I've seen a few game companies that any discussion of this sort, it wouldn't happen, your post would have been vanished within moments.

I may not agree with all your points, but you do have some valid ones that I do agree with. We may all not get along at times, but the single thing that we all need to remember is, this game is our shared concern, we enjoy it, we're passionate about it sometimes, but we all want this game to be THE ultimate game in the end.

+1 man, again...owe you some rep now.
 
Re: Exploration

David wasn't the one who said exploration is solid as is, that was Michael Brooks, and that simply means that according to what Michael knows, it's solid. Here's the kicker, what does Michael know that we don't about the plans for the game in regards to exploration that are coming down the pipe? WE don't know, so perhaps Michael's statement is based on things coming that will make exploration a bit more than it is now. Or perhaps he think the basic mechanics of exploration as they sit now are solid and don't need to be fixed, there's no bugs. Or who knows what else he may or may not have been thinking?

Michael was pretty clear in the discussion in the Exploration forum when he made that statement that the core mechanics of exploration, as they existed at that time (I believe it was around the time of 1.3 or 1.4) were solid and did not need to be enhanced with new features, although there were plans to (eventually) perhaps add more things to find. The full discussion can be found somewhere on the Exploration forum, if I can find it I will link it.

Edit:
Here is Michael's quote:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=170784&page=15

And here are just a few of the lengthy discussions of what folks think of the current exploration mechanics and proposals to fix/enhance them around the same time:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=154457
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=171023
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=191647
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141440
 
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Michael was pretty clear in the discussion in the Exploration forum when he made that statement that the core mechanics of exploration, as they existed at that time (I believe it was around the time of 1.3 or 1.4) were solid and did not need to be enhanced with new features, although there were plans to (eventually) perhaps add more things to find. The full discussion can be found somewhere on the Exploration forum, if I can find it I will link it.

I've read it, and that's the thing, the core mechanics ARE solid, he's right, they work as intended and don't need to be enhanced with new features. WE want more features to be added, I think almost all of us do, but who knows what the majority actually wants, no way for us to know that. And as I said, most of what I've seen people asking to be added are literally just push a button for another scan to take place additions, more time spent doing exactly the same thing as now, what is the point of that?

Me, I've made some suggestions on it, not just push a button options but things that require us to do stuff, physically collect samples, manually run tests and analysis the data ourselves, all time consuming and they'd require some ability, skill and actual knowledge on the part of the player, which means no chance in hell of them happening. But to me, that would be awesome, even if I had to go pick up some textbooks for all the subjects that I'm a complete moron about, which means just about every damn one of them, as even my astrophysics training is decades out of date(college for it in the 80s, but never worked in the field at all, and occasional articles don't cut it for keeping up!). That ain't ever going to happen, even though I'm sure it'd make David do a happy dance to have that as well, and many of you would be right there with me and David doing that happy dance. Sadly, we are a very small minority, we're the nutjobs who think that sort of stuff is fun and exciting and really freaking cool as hell. Doesn't keep me from suggesting it every so often though ;)

There are plans to add more things to find, we've already seen that with Horizons and more will be coming as time goes on, and maybe we'll see more ways to find those new things like the SRV Scanner, which is an amazing little toy that I'm sure lots of us would love to see used for ships as well.

We all have this perfect vision of what Elite: Dangerous is to us in our heads, I know mine keeps shifting around as I think of new things or discard old things, but it's OUR visions, not David's vision, which is what FD is building, David's vision. That's the vision we all backed with our money, be it a KS pledge or a Steam purchase, that's the deal we agreed to. I'm content to wait and see what his vision ends up being, but I'll still toss the occasional suggestion at him none the less, who knows, he may have been thinking something along the same lines....
 
We all have this perfect vision of what Elite: Dangerous is to us in our heads, I know mine keeps shifting around as I think of new things or discard old things, but it's OUR visions, not David's vision, which is what FD is building, David's vision. That's the vision we all backed with our money, be it a KS pledge or a Steam purchase, that's the deal we agreed to. I'm content to wait and see what his vision ends up being, but I'll still toss the occasional suggestion at him none the less, who knows, he may have been thinking something along the same lines....

True, but to some extent it was sold as the vision expressed in the DDA/DDF as well.

Exploration: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418
Everything else: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418
 
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True, but to some extent it was sold as the vision expressed in the DDA/DDF as well.

Ah, the DDA/DDF issue...something that so many people keep confusing with being promised things, which they weren't, they were thoughts, ideas and possible options that may or may not ever be considered for the actual game. And frankly, some of those things, thank the gods they didn't make it in, they are horrible, just...ugh! Some of them, really awesome, love to see them make it in, but, again, those weren't features of the game, they were blue skying concepts and ideas that could someday be done, that's all.
 
Ah, the DDA/DDF issue...something that so many people keep confusing with being promised things, which they weren't, they were thoughts, ideas and possible options that may or may not ever be considered for the actual game. And frankly, some of those things, thank the gods they didn't make it in, they are horrible, just...ugh! Some of them, really awesome, love to see them make it in, but, again, those weren't features of the game, they were blue skying concepts and ideas that could someday be done, that's all.

Fair enough. I'll accept making ED 'not boring' then, as a compromise.
 
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I've read it, and that's the thing, the core mechanics ARE solid, he's right, they work as intended and don't need to be enhanced with new features. .

I take it you don't explore much then.

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Ah, the DDA/DDF issue...something that so many people keep confusing with being promised things,

I wonder why?
 
Fair enough. I'll accept making ED 'not boring' then, as a compromise.

Define boring for EVERYONE if you could please.

I'm out in the Black, been out a week, around 2k LY from the bubble currently, taking my time, landing on planets and moons, scanning everything, having fun. My 7th exploration trip as it happens, last one was a little over 2 months long, I left the bubble for Sag A*, 70k LY traveled round trip, didn't go any further out than Sag A* that time, this time I'm heading for Beagle Point and further out. I didn't get bored last time, or the time before, and I'm enjoying my current trip enormously since I can land on planets and moons, always different, always interesting. I'm an explorer and have a good 500 hours out of my 1000 total ingame doing that, not been bored yet.

I'd love MORE things to do, but that wouldn't make it any less boring for me since it's NOT boring to begin with.

I don't think you can define boring for anyone but yourself, and your ideas to fix that are only valid for you, so....
 
I take it you don't explore much then.

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I wonder why?

Compared to some, I'm a novice, only at Pioneer right now, only 500 hours in the Black.

Why do people confuse things that were clearly stated as being ideas and concepts and NOT promised to be in the game for promises? I honestly don't have a clue on that one, you tell me since you seem to be one of the folks who did that.

Why did you confuse things constantly stated to be ideas and concepts and not promised features for promised features?
 
I'd love MORE things to do, but that wouldn't make it any less boring for me since it's NOT boring to begin with.

I don't think you can define boring for anyone but yourself, and your ideas to fix that are only valid for you, so....

Not boring for you (fallen into your own trap). Boring for many others after the repetitive grind of the nth thousandth scan or jump or POI or *SS or whatever. See the threads I linked above if you don't believe me. It does not look like there are many explorers on the exploration forum saying that it is fine as is.
 
Oh sorry, my mistake. The game is not boring at all. I'm wrong. Back in my box with me.

You get bored by the mechanics, I don't, I never said you were wrong, nice try though. I don't see your suggestions to make things more enjoyable for either, just a nice little strawman tossed out there...
 
Ah, the DDA/DDF issue...something that so many people keep confusing with being promised things, which they weren't, they were thoughts, ideas and possible options that may or may not ever be considered for the actual game. And frankly, some of those things, thank the gods they didn't make it in, they are horrible, just...ugh! Some of them, really awesome, love to see them make it in, but, again, those weren't features of the game, they were blue skying concepts and ideas that could someday be done, that's all.

Exploration and mining, please read those in the DDA and tell me the game is much better without the 90% of the features discussed in the DDF.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7007

The DDF were discussions so FD could have a base to develop the game and yes FD would discuss them internally but there's a long way from discuss a mechanic to completely abandon it!.
 
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