Simple Fix to Combat Logging

[GluttonyFang]

Open is interaction with players..
Thats the reason why we ask for an open pve mode.
pvp' ers can kill each other in the other side/ .

FD doesn't seem very keen on separating PvP from PvE by splitting mode, some think the proposal of separating into PvE Open and PvP Open is strong-arming FD like how some PvP players want to wipe out private/solo mode.

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We topped off his fuel tanks and whent back about our business. We helped out a player in need and made a new friend.....this is open play not PvP.

Cooperative play is a part of Open just as PvP.

 

[badtrip]

I really wish PvPers would stop whining and accept combatlogging for what it is: a rejection. "I dont want to play with you, I don't even like you. I've never liked you and I never will now STOP BOTHERING ME!" also the universe hates you deal with it... (oh and that PvP option you lot are so against would probably rid you of the problem but then no more easy targets...)

For this condition there should be no rejection!
Under the functiom menu, there could be a button for assigning PVE mode or PVP in open!
Whil one scans another, they can see your intent..

This subject is going like for-ever....

 

[GluttonyFang]

I really wish PvPers would stop whining and accept combatlogging for what it is: a rejection. "I dont want to play with you, I don't even like you. I've never liked you and I never will now STOP BOTHERING ME!" also the universe hates you deal with it... (oh and that PvP option you lot are so against would probably rid you of the problem but then no more easy targets...)

Then don't step into a social environment where one knowingly encounter hostile interaction. This kind of argument is akin to a child throwing a tantrum when one does not get one's way.

Crime and punishment needs rework, there is no doubt, but to claim that certain interaction (save cheating with memory value manipulation back in the 32-bit client which is now much less rampant) are undesirable being a legitimate reason to combat log is beyond me when there are legitimate methods to avoid/escape undesirable circumstance and a 15-second combat log considered legitimate by the developers.

Mobius was created especially for those that want interaction without hostile interaction, people there are mature adults that agree to a certain rule set for certain kind of interaction just as people who play in Open that is full of unpredictable danger.

Combat logging isn't a rejection, it's a child's narcissism going unpunished and showing no respect whatsoever for open mode, no different than people that intentionally enter Mobius to disrupt the group.

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For this condition there should be no rejection!
Under the functiom menu, there could be a button for assigning PVE mode or PVP in open!
Whil one scans another, they can see your intent..

This subject is going like for-ever....

That is called a flag system, a spin-off of the system is something I am in support of.

 

[VR Murgle]

FD doesn't seem very keen on separating PvP from PvE by splitting mode, some think the proposal of separating into PvE Open and PvP Open is strong-arming FD like how some PvP players want to wipe out private/solo mode.

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Cooperative play is a part of Open just as PvP.

And I have no intention of playing in the current open and that goes well beyond PvP at this point, it's about a certain type of people that is attracted by PvP and those people I really really don't need in my life. So I and people like me will continue to either avoid open or combat log... And there will of course be people who will avoid this game because of the PvP. I myself would not have even considered this game if it hadn't been for the solo option...

 

[GluttonyFang]

And I have no intention of playing in the current open and that goes well beyond PvP at this point, it's about a certain type of people that is attracted by PvP and those people I really really don't need in my life. So I and people like me will continue to either avoid open or combat log... And there will of course be people who will avoid this game because of the PvP. I myself would not have even considered this game if it hadn't been for the solo option...

Stereotyping doesn't seem to be very healthy. Crime and punishment is being reworked as far as I understand, I suggest avoiding Open until it gets sorted out sufficiently. Combat logging is not a solution to anything.

 

[Kristov]

Personally I still think that Mech Warrior online has best way to deal with problem, when players jump out of game or trying to avoid playing on maps.
Result you can not log into game for X number of minutes, the more you do it the longer time gets.

Simple.

Actually, it's only the Mech you had in that drop that's locked out until that drop is finished. I've lost connection during a drop before the rejoin option was added and simply jumped into another of my dozens of Mechs and was right back in the action. Combat logging isn't an actual problem in MWO, your Mech doesn't cease to exist when you get DC'd, and it can be destroyed.

Stacking missions by changing the transaction server? Ok.
Using the bandwidth monitor to avoid or engage with players? Ok.
Using third party sources to find optimal trade routes? Ok.
Logging off in the middle of combat in solo? JESUS CHRISTMAS you better prepare your sweet bum for the ban hammer because you're worse than Hitler!

All of the above increase your profit and minimize loss in ways not intended by the game developers, but one of those methods is bad?

See, here's the thing, per FD, you know, the folks who make and run the game and therefore set the rules we all agreed to abide by while playing the game, they say that combat logging isn't acceptable behaviour and is against the rules, so, guess what! It's not acceptable behaviour, it's against the rules, and FD takes steps to deal with the people who can't abide by the rules they agreed to abide by. YOUR personal opinion on the rules means absolutely nothing, might want to remember that, make a note, stick on your monitor or something, FD doesn't care if you like their rules, you break em, you get punished for that, simple as that.

Sapient 6 has the right of it, FD collects the data and figures out who's combat logging(it's a LOT easier than most of you realize to detect that btw) and dealing with the offenders privately. You won't be told if they punish someone, and it's very unlikely, not impossible of course, that anyone will admit to being punished for this act, since it clearly shows they broke the rules.

So, people look to see who got punished, that information doesn't exist, therefore FD isn't doing anything about it because...well...common sense, so godsbedamned rare that it should be a super power as the great Deadpool has stated.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Everyone calls the stacking of missions, by way of shifting through the Modes, an exploit. Should everyone who's done that be penalized? Combat Logging is what I would call a 'First World Problem'. Nothing much more than something to complain about. In the end, the solution to Combat Logging is to just plain get over it.

The mentioned exploits are not directly causing anyone else inconvenience, combat logging on the other hand, causes direct inconvenience to another player/players. Solution to combat logging most likely lies in adjustment to crime and punishment, then after that, proper punishment for combat logging. Otherwise it's wasting resource in support for the reports and compensations that arise from incidents of combat logging.

Edit:

FD did punish players that used the Robigo exploit (not the smuggling missions themselves) in January/February.

 

[ronnie-kane]

See, here's the thing, per FD, you know, the folks who make and run the game and therefore set the rules we all agreed to abide by while playing the game, they say that combat logging isn't acceptable behaviour and is against the rules, so, guess what! It's not acceptable behaviour, it's against the rules, and FD takes steps to deal with the people who can't abide by the rules they agreed to abide by. YOUR personal opinion on the rules means absolutely nothing, might want to remember that, make a note, stick on your monitor or something, FD doesn't care if you like their rules, you break em, you get punished for that, simple as that.

Sapient 6 has the right of it, FD collects the data and figures out who's combat logging(it's a LOT easier than most of you realize to detect that btw) and dealing with the offenders privately. You won't be told if they punish someone, and it's very unlikely, not impossible of course, that anyone will admit to being punished for this act, since it clearly shows they broke the rules.

They say it's cheating, which I'm fine with when I'm playing a game on my own. I'm not above it at all.
I'm not asking anyone to accept it, only to ignore it. Ships appear and disappear all the time in this game.

@Garbarrage is completely right. Just pretend to everyone that they've won and move on.

And please do describe your foolproof mechanism for distinguishing between me unplugging my computer and the power failing at my house. In both cases the computer suddenly dies and comes back shortly afterwards....

 

[KaizoMK]

See, here's the thing, per FD, you know, the folks who make and run the game and therefore set the rules we all agreed to abide by while playing the game, they say that combat logging isn't acceptable behaviour and is against the rules, so, guess what! It's not acceptable behaviour, it's against the rules, and FD takes steps to deal with the people who can't abide by the rules they agreed to abide by. YOUR personal opinion on the rules means absolutely nothing, might want to remember that, make a note, stick on your monitor or something, FD doesn't care if you like their rules, you break em, you get punished for that, simple as that.

So you agree that it's an idiotic rule, then. Because I'm sure FD is keeping up with these threads and also realizes it's just silly. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually just didn't care about combat logging, especially given how completely illogical all this hooplah is.
And that's the purpose of these debates. Through the personal inclinations and the facts, FD will make decisions based on the spirit of the game and optimal gameplay design. So stop bringing irrelevant information and circular logic to the table. Address the issues with combat logging, or don't (because there aren't any.)

 

[VR Murgle]

Stereotyping doesn't seem to be very healthy. Crime and punishment is being reworked as far as I understand, I suggest avoiding Open until it gets sorted out sufficiently. Combat logging is not a solution to anything.

Stereotypes exist for a reason, they do sometimes apply. I've played a lot of MMO's, real MMO's you know the massive kind where you can have well over 32 players in the same area, and I've seen the enemy so they can overhauls crime and punishment all they like it probably won't convince me to play in open. Oh and I don't combat log because I don't have to

 

[Kristov]

They say it's cheating, which I'm fine with when I'm playing a game on my own. I'm not above it at all.
I'm not asking anyone to accept it, only to ignore it. Ships appear and disappear all the time in this game.

@Garbarrage is completely right. Just pretend to everyone that they've won and move on.

And please do describe your foolproof mechanism for distinguishing between me unplugging my computer and the power failing at my house. In both cases the computer suddenly dies and comes back shortly afterwards....

You aren't playing a game by yourself if you are playing Elite: Dangerous though, even in Solo mode, remember? So how exactly is cheating in an online multiplayer game even remotely acceptable under any circumstances? That's right, it's not, and FD have been crystal clear, combat logging isn't acceptable, it's against the rules, it will be punished. The only way FD will check your logs for combat logging is if someone reports you for it, therefore, you weren't in Solo mode, you were actually playing with other people and you broke the rules in front of other people.

You want to cheat, get an actual offline single player game, otherwise, don't cheat.

And I don't recall saying anything about foolproof when I said it's easier to detect combat logging than people realize, nope, sure enough, I didn't say that at all upon reading my statement again, didn't imply it either, said it was easier to detect than people realize, because it is. I won't go into specifics because doing so gives people clues on how to get around that, which I'm loathe to do and the mods would probably whack for me it, or they should whack me for it.

I have connection issues sometimes, using ethernet-over-power at home for my PC connection, and the slightest line noise can cause my connection to drop for a moment. I've also had the game running for over 20 hours without any problems at all, so it's one of those things that just happens when it happens. If I lose connection during a combat, I'll log back in as soon as I can, contact the person I was in combat with, and offer to do it again, and let them know, I didn't log, I lost connection. They are of course free to report me, but since I've actually mentioned this little problem many times on these forums, I'm not too worried about it, especially since I've engaged in PvP more than a few times and actually lost in my Anaconda recently despite the other player giving me the chance to not dance with him at all. It hasn't happened yet, as when my connection is being a pain, I'll usually just stop playing, it's not worth ruining someone else's experience to me. Any check of the logs would indicate I killed the connection since that is exactly what would show, my modem and router stay online, my PC is the only connection that drops when this happens, as it's the only one of multiple connections that's EoP.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Stereotypes exist for a reason, they do sometimes apply. I've played a lot of MMO's, real MMO's you know the massive kind where you can have well over 32 players in the same area, and I've seen the enemy so they can overhauls crime and punishment all they like it probably won't convince me to play in open. Oh and I don't combat log because I don't have to

Then use "some" as a prefix before addressing a group of people to avoid appearing to accuse an entire group of people.

 

[VR Murgle]

Then use "some" as a prefix before addressing a group of people to avoid appearing to accuse an entire group of people.

You're right I should have made it clear I was not referring to ALL PvPer's just a (small) group. I do apologise.

 

[Kristov]

So you agree that it's an idiotic rule, then. Because I'm sure FD is keeping up with these threads and also realizes it's just silly. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually just didn't care about combat logging, especially given how completely illogical all this hooplah is.
And that's the purpose of these debates. Through the personal inclinations and the facts, FD will make decisions based on the spirit of the game and optimal gameplay design. So stop bringing irrelevant information and circular logic to the table. Address the issues with combat logging, or don't (because there aren't any.)

I don't think it's a silly rule, I think it's an excellent rule, and when my connection is being a pain, I won't play the game so that I don't ruin someone else's experience by suddenly vanishing in combat. Please don't try and tell me what my opinions are, you don't think like I do, I don't find breaking the rules to be acceptable behaviour in a game and think the people who do it should be punished for that. And yes, combat logging DOES directly impact the experience of other players, regardless of what you think about that.

The issues with combat logging are being addressed by FD, I didn't bring anything not relevant or use circular logic, you failing to heed common sense and good game play etiquette is entirely on you. Combat logging IS an issue per FD, and while you think it's not a relevant issue, they seem to disagree so much that they are actually keeping track of the people reported for it and taking action against them. Again, YOUR opinions on what the rules are don't matter, sticky note that on your monitor, you seem to keep forgetting it.

 

[SMcA]

Logging is essentially an admission of defeat.

Or it is giving the V-sign to a Banker.

 

[Oldric]

I like the idea of the OP, if the combat logger has taken a fair bit of damage why not give the aggressor the joy of exploding him, just don't give them much xp for it, I am all for simple solutions and who's gonna really care...You get two happy customers that way, any other solution you probably only have one guy grinning don't ya think.

If they are going to fix combat logging and I haven't heard of anyone being punished just yet. I would think a logical point may be with the ship launched fighters update later this year.

Exiting other than through the menu(15 second cool down) could then be treated as if you had launched a fighter, with the original vessel continuing under AI control for the remaining player to finish off, but no fighter actually spawning of course.

If the changes to crime and punishment in 2.1 prove ineffective, we may see other approaches to try and remove the incentives to combat log and counter perceived griefing. Perhaps making it possible or even 'forcing' us to purchase extended insurance, when we plot a route through a particular system, these 'danger' zones, where a number of player murders have occurred recently. If they are indicated on the map it would aid the community in policing itself, providing a natural hunting ground for PvP inclined bounty Hunters.

 

[KaizoMK]

I don't find breaking the rules to be acceptable behaviour in a game and think the people who do it should be punished for that. And yes, combat logging DOES directly impact the experience of other players, regardless of what you think about that.

You're back to your trusty "it's against the rules because IT'S AGAINST THE RULES" bit, I see. Never mind that there are no statistics of the effects of combat logging on the bgs, and if they existed the effects would be negligible at best. Never mind that exploits equally (and sometimes better) suited to maximizing profit exist in the game and are not "cheating." There's a tidal wave of logic against you, but all that matters is that you can say with comfort "it's against the rules."

Please don't try and tell me what my opinions are, you don't think like I do

Thank Christmas, I was worried I was getting a little carried away.

 

[Kristov]

You're back to your trusty "it's against the rules because IT'S AGAINST THE RULES" bit, I see. Never mind that there are no statistics of the effects of combat logging on the bgs, and if they existed the effects would be negligible at best. Never mind that exploits equally (and sometimes better) suited to maximizing profit exist in the game and are not "cheating." There's a tidal wave of logic against you, but all that matters is that you can say with comfort "it's against the rules."



Thank Christmas, I was worried I was getting a little carried away.

Combat logging has an immediate and obvious effect on the person who was fighting the combat logger, guess that doesn't matter to you, ruining someone else's game experience? Exactly the reason I stated I won't play when my connection is being a pain, so that I don't do that to someone else, ruin their game experience. Combat logging affecting the BGS, well, yes, it can, depending on the situation, most definitely it can affect the BGS. Again, you not understand that or refusing to see it, well, you ain't a superhero, that's for certain.

 

[VR Murgle]

I like the idea of the OP, if the combat logger has taken a fair bit of damage why not give the aggressor the joy of exploding him, just don't give them much xp for it, I am all for simple solutions and who's gonna really care...You get two happy customers that way, any other solution you probably only have one guy grinning don't ya think.

If they are going to fix combat logging and I haven't heard of anyone being punished just yet. I would think a logical point may be with the ship launched fighters update later this year.

Exiting other than through the menu(15 second cool down) could then be treated as if you had launched a fighter, with the original vessel continuing under AI control.

If the changes to crime and punishment in 2.1 prove ineffective, we may see other approaches to try and remove the incentives to combat log and counter perceived griefing. Perhaps making it possible or even 'forcing' us to purchase extended insurance, when we plot a route through a particular system, 'danger' zones, where a number of player murders have occurred recently. If these are indicated on the map it would aid the community in policing itself, providing a natural hunting ground for PvP inclined bounty Hunters.

Adjusting crime and punishment alone isn't going to work. Combat logging is the weapon of the powerless, it's what people use when they know they have no chance to escape. Give people a chance to run maybe cover their retreat with concussion mines. As long as people have a chance they'll keep trying.

 

[KaizoMK]

Combat logging has an immediate and obvious effect on the person who was fighting the combat logger, guess that doesn't matter to you, ruining someone else's game experience? Exactly the reason I stated I won't play when my connection is being a pain, so that I don't do that to someone else, ruin their game experience. Combat logging affecting the BGS, well, yes, it can, depending on the situation, most definitely it can affect the BGS. Again, you not understand that or refusing to see it, well, you ain't a superhero, that's for certain.

Sorry, I assumed that the impact combat logging has on the multiplayer experience was obvious since we've spent the last ten frigging pages talking about it. Why don't you just play in solo mode then? No one worth a damn cares if you combat log there.

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Adjusting crime and punishment alone isn't going to work. Combat logging is the weapon of the powerless, it's what people use when they know they have no chance to escape. Give people a chance to run maybe cover their retreat with concussion mines. As long as people have a chance they'll keep trying.

It would be preferable if they changed the mechanics of the game to take away the problems of combat logging, either through networking or simply with the way gameplay is rewarded. I can't imagine combat logging will ever really go away, even if you change crime and punishment....it'll lower it, but it's just so easy to avoid death by disconnecting. Better to find a way to make the encounter satisfying regardless of combat logging. And frankly, it should be punished by gameplay...it should be integrated as a mechanic that you use to your own detriment - costing you money or reputation, depending on the situation.