Simple Fix to Combat Logging

[KaizoMK]

It's funny how extreme everyone's views on the solution are. It's really incredibly simple. Ships shouldn't disappear instantly when you DC they should float around for a few minutes and then disappear. The situation you disconnect in will do the rest if it's a crash in order to avoid attempt avoiding death.

I mean, I've played countless MMOs and it's a pretty fundamental part of any MMO that people don't crash to escape every dangerous situation. You may as well just be invincible.

That's a good solution, if you have network problems don't play the game. That may ostracize players who don't have that steady connection, but they're already being getting shafted.

The real problem is that FD is p2p, unlike most mmo's. They'd have to allow for a server to persist information for a short while in order to maintain that info for a length of time, and it's too much work for too little gain.

I got mega ninja'd, whoa.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

The only solution is for FD to revamp PvP piracy and bounty hunting. If there would be a real incentive, and some proper tools to pirate or bounty hunt other players, there would be way less psychos going for the free kills, therefore, less combat logging.

PS: I know what I am talking about, I did want to go pirate, then bounty hunter, but ended up being just a player killer (AKA "Pker") seeking for good fights because this is the only way to PvP at the moment.

 

[KaizoMK]

The only solution is for FD to revamp PvP piracy and bounty hunting. If there would be a real incentive, and some proper tools to pirate or bounty hunt other players, there would be way less psychos going for the free kills, therefore, less combat logging.

Not that those solutions aren't important, but crime and punishment changes are the real way to take away some of the incentive to combat log. Psychos won't stop being psychos.

 

[Garbarrage]

The only solution is for FD to revamp PvP piracy and bounty hunting. If there would be a real incentive, and some proper tools to pirate or bounty hunt other players, there would be way less psychos going for the free kills, therefore, less combat logging.

This doesn't make sense. Pirates and psychos are completely separate from each other. Making piracy easier will have zero effect on the number of PKers. It will also have zero effect on logging.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Not that those solutions aren't important, but crime and punishment changes are the real way to take away some of the incentive to combat log. Psychos won't stop being psychos.

Yep, increasing crime punishment is the first part of getting PvP bounty hunting back on track.
I killed a griefer yesterday and collected 85k from him...which is peanuts.
Using a KWS, I may have got more bounty vouchers (or not, since bounties disappear from the tab pretty quickly), but i would not have bothered visiting different parts of the galaxy to collect them.

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This doesn't make sense. Pirates and psychos are completely separate from each other. Making piracy easier will have zero effect on the number of PKers. It will also have zero effect on logging.

You are wrong.
A lot of players, like me, wanted to be PvP pirate / bounty hunters. But since both of these are going nowhere, they end up as player killers (AKA "Pkers").
Sure, the Pkers have their preference for skilled commanders flying combat ships...but those are hard to spot and sometimes, you just do with what you encounter in supercruise.

More pirates + more BHs = less psychos.

 

[GluttonyFang]

This doesn't make sense. Pirates and psychos are completely separate from each other. Making piracy easier will have zero effect on the number of PKers. It will also have zero effect on logging.

Revamping the crime and punishment system doesn't make piracy easier, don't know where you got that idea.

Also that many psycho Cmdr used to be pirates that got very bored and sick of combat logging to the point where they don't give a crap anymore. I've seen the transition happen many times with many pilots.

 

[CMDR Arni Sigurdsson]

I think a big part of the solution to combat logging and save and exit would be lowering the insurance cost at least 50% and even more for newbes 75% up to a certain rank and include the cargo in the insurance.
CMDRs would be less likely to log out, and more likely to engage in a combat if the loss of credit and cargo wasn’t so great, it’s a win for everyone, almost.
All I hear is punishments for this and that, some CMDR said: “simpler fix for combat logging will be banning from open for the logger for at least one week”,
common are you for real ?, many CMDRs will probably just leave Elite and put on the shelf.
So I think lowering the insurance cost would be a great way to start with !

 

[Derath]

Changing the crime/punishment system or making piracy more lucrative won't have any impact on combat logging because your thinking about it from the wrong angle, its an instant perfectly reliable way to escape any situation you dislike, the fact that they get a bigger bounty won't change that, and neither will making a reasonable profit as a pirate.

The only solution is enforcement or to abandon any attempt to do so, i'm fairly certain they went for #2.

Redesigning the server infrastructure isn't going to happen, I mean they struggle to design a mission that isn't go from A to B it'd take them years to move it to server architecture

 

[DHMeyer]

You are a brave person...

I still have faith that at the end of all the data collection by FD they will implement an automated warning system with consequences... It may be a while but I think it's coming.
I mean I speak as an uneducated fool here but can't they rig it to get a confirmation command sent when someone presses "log-out to main menu" or "log-out to desktop". And the same when someone presses login?

That way they'd have X user - login... X user logout. Subtract the logouts from logins and it should = 0. Any that are higher than 0 have used out of game methods. Then put numbers on it or clever statistics (numbers per month/year) to determine at what point players get warnings/actions since a certain number may be accidents or power-cuts etc.

In my case there would be a problem with this. My computer crashes frequently when I'm playing Elite. Once in a while the game freezes and I have the choice: wait for the BSOD and listen to stuttering sound or reset the computer, let it cool down a bit and then log in again. This happens fairly randomly, at least once per hour or so and usually not in combat situations, but on many occasions I got that sort of a freeze during interdictions and on some occasions when in combat. So the system you suggest would see that as combat logging.
My guess is that FD are already able to gather such statistics though.

 

[SkyLeach]

this is so tempting me to fly around a type 7 with tons and tons of really cheap stuff until I get PvP interdicted

have fun collecting all that worthless crap pirate

 

[Derath]

this is so tempting me to fly around a type 7 with tons and tons of really cheap stuff until I get PvP interdicted

have fun collecting all that worthless crap pirate

People used to drop biowaste fairly often as a trick/troll, It doesn't work as there isn't any money in it anyway but I always enjoyed the spirit of the traders who did so

 

[VR Murgle]

I really wish PvPers would stop whining and accept combatlogging for what it is: a rejection. "I dont want to play with you, I don't even like you. I've never liked you and I never will now STOP BOTHERING ME!" also the universe hates you deal with it... (oh and that PvP option you lot are so against would probably rid you of the problem but then no more easy targets...)

 

[DanaM]

I really wish PvPers would stop whining and accept combatlogging for what it is: a rejection. "I dont want to play with you, I don't even like you. I've never liked you and I never will now STOP BOTHERING ME!" also the universe hates you deal with it... (oh and that PvP option you lot are so against would probably rid you of the problem but then no more easy targets...)

Rejection is hard to take, especially for the griefer/ "I'm a PVP Pro, Bro" set, probably since they get so much of it in their daily life.

 

[Garbarrage]

Revamping the crime and punishment system doesn't make piracy easier, don't know where you got that idea.

Also that many psycho Cmdr used to be pirates that got very bored and sick of combat logging to the point where they don't give a crap anymore. I've seen the transition happen many times with many pilots.

You've seen pirates who got ticked off with combat logging turn to pure PKing? They sound clever.

As for making it easier, the post I replied to mentioned tools for piracy (hatchbreaker limpets?). My answer wasn't comprehensive as it didn't need to be. There are players who don't care about piracy and just want to shoot people in the face (they exist in every game).

None of this addresses the point that FD would appear to not care about this issue as much as some people. You can still be a pirate. Just not if your targets don't play along.

The real question you need to ask, is how likely do you think it is, that a company would revisit as fundamental an issue as their networking to solve a problem that an honour system won't solve for them?

This is a company that won't allow players to own starports, or claim areas of space and has some very unusual views with regard to PvP. I think expecting a complete solution may be a little futile.

 

[Sapient6]

Heu...my post was just a sarcastic joke...you got it, right?
I meant that getting an explosion from a combat logger would be as satisfying to a player killer as getting a low value canister of tea would be for a pirate...

Yeah, I got it.

My post was saying, "why joke around about it?" The big bad pirate wants a Boom and some Loot. So give the pirate some loot.

 

[Sapient6]

None of this addresses the point that FD would appear to not care about this issue as much as some people.

What would it look like if FD cared? Given that:

• It's been established that an in-game fix is neigh impossible, so the out-of-game fix is for data collection and complaint tickets to drive warnings and penalties given to players.
• Due to Reasons, FDev is never going to publicly Name And Shame commanders who receive warnings or penalties.
• Players who receive warnings or penalties for combat logging are unlikely to share that fact openly.

It would likely not look like much. The best we could hope for would be "I haven't seen that guy I reported for a little while", except that not seeing someone doesn't present evidence at all. You don't fly around saying "hmm, I don't see that guy I reported last week right now."

In fact, you're most likely to "notice" something about the guy the next time you actually see him. Whether it's because FDev doesn't care, or because they investigated but there wasn't enough evidence that it was actual combat logging, or because he didn't combat log (used the menu exit instead, which is officially OK), or because he only got a warning, or because they haven't finished the investigation yet, or because he did get a penalty but it wasn't a permanent banning

* GASP FOR BREATH *

... you're most likely to interpret that as "FDev does nothing about combat logging reports" even though that is only one possibility out of many.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You've seen pirates who got ticked off with combat logging turn to pure PKing? They sound clever.

It psychologically make sense, piracy is an amoral/immoral profession to begin with, but still stay within certain confinement and criteria. When this does not provide sufficient entertainment due to rampant combat logging, some turn to PKing, which is much easier than piracy and provide entertainment for some.

As for making it easier, the post I replied to mentioned tools for piracy (hatchbreaker limpets?). My answer wasn't comprehensive as it didn't need to be. There are players who don't care about piracy and just want to shoot people in the face (they exist in every game).

I searched the entire thread just now for keyword in "hatch" and "limpet," didn't find anything. If you were referring to Geoffrey's post about:

The only solution is for FD to revamp PvP piracy and bounty hunting. If there would be a real incentive, and some proper tools to pirate or bounty hunt other players, there would be way less psychos going for the free kills, therefore, less combat logging.

PS: I know what I am talking about, I did want to go pirate, then bounty hunter, but ended up being just a player killer (AKA "Pker") seeking for good fights because this is the only way to PvP at the moment.

Those tools he's proposing aren't making the professions "easier," it's making them functional (hence why he used the word "revamp"). I wrote an analysis on the whole situation, so if you're not up to date or don't pay much attention to it, read about it.

None of this addresses the point that FD would appear to not care about this issue as much as some people. You can still be a pirate. Just not if your targets don't play along.

PvE pirate, sure. Player piracy tends to get stomped on over and over.

The real question you need to ask, is how likely do you think it is, that a company would revisit as fundamental an issue as their networking to solve a problem that an honour system won't solve for them?

When it is incorporated into a larger issue/mechanic known as Crime & Punishment, it will be addressed, which it does.

This is a company that won't allow players to own starports, or claim areas of space and has some very unusual views with regard to PvP. I think expecting a complete solution may be a little futile.

Depending on what kind of solution one seeks.

 

[Comrade Error]

It psychologically make sense, piracy is an amoral/immoral profession to begin with, but still stay within certain confinement and criteria. When this does not provide sufficient entertainment due to rampant combat logging, some turn to PKing, which is much easier than piracy and provide entertainment for some.



I searched the entire thread just now for keyword in "hatch" and "limpet," didn't find anything. If you were referring to Geoffrey's post about:



Those tools he's proposing aren't making the professions "easier," it's making them functional (hence why he used the word "revamp"). I wrote an analysis on the whole situation, so if you're not up to date or don't pay much attention to it, read about it.



PvE pirate, sure. Player piracy tends to get stomped on over and over.




When it is incorporated into a larger issue/mechanic known as Crime & Punishment, it will be addressed, which it does.



Depending on what kind of solution one seeks.

I like you. [noob]

 

[GluttonyFang]

I like you. [noob]

<3
8 chars

 

[badtrip]

Ive seen this post before and the one that asks the question, Why would anyone play in open if they didn't want to PvP? This happened yesterday........I was bounty Farming and my buddy was doing some PP missions far from where I was. my buddy(Turrett from Sweden) Got a PM from a player H4X and he joined my TS server.....we talked a bit and I found out he was from Spain so I gave him a hardy California Greeting: Como Esta usted?....We talked some more and we found out that H4X had run out of fuel one jump from his mission destination. Turrett and I said we could help so we outfitted our Pythons as gas trucks....we both traveled about 180 LY to get to H4X....We topped off his fuel tanks and whent back about our business. We helped out a player in need and made a new friend.....this is open play not PvP.

Open is interaction with players..
Thats the reason why we ask for an open pve mode.
pvp' ers can kill each other in the other side/ .