If it was at a CG that's a bit more reasonable, and I agree there should be NPC defence against CG's too. There's a LOT of the game that's still very rudimentary, this is just one example
PVP/Crime Consequences required levels (Answers from PVE players please.)
- Thread starter Majinvash
- Start date
If it was at a CG that's a bit more reasonable, and I agree there should be NPC defence against CG's too. There's a LOT of the game that's still very rudimentary, this is just one example
Well I guess Frontier made a rod for their own back when they made the NPC's so weak, now a lot of PvE'ers expect them to stay that way. I personally prefer a challenge over NPC 'whack-a-mole', but each to their own I guess.
IMHO Frontier should make the AI of NPC's 25%-50% smarter in solo & group mode to balance the drop in challenge, why should any mode be easier than any other? Mode selection should be purely about the level of social interaction you want - not the level of challenge you want.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... which would make the vast majority of Open (i.e. systems without other opposing players in them) easier than the other two modes. The only difference between the modes is the number of players that can be encountered.
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Well there is a perception that open is a ganker free-for-all at the moment, do you agree or disagree with that Robert?
Edit: Yes, my suggestion does have a certain amount of contradiction in it I admit, but we do have to acknowledge the imbalance in difficulty between the modes - something has to be done to address this imbalance.
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See, even that's an exaggeration. We all know you can spend ages in open without being ganked especially if you stay in the boondocks and never go to a cg etc, but there's a truth you're missing... ALL of the gankers ARE in open, other than sneak incursions into mobius it's the ONLY place you can get ganked, and it can happen anywhere, anytime, regardless of how unlikely it would be in that area if there were real policing. No-one likes being ganked, even if it's not every five minutes.
(Hard to believe that some people are STILL arguing that we should promote ganking as a positive thing.)
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I agree that for some players there is a perception that Open is a ganker free-for-all at the moment, yes.
If the potential proposal for an Open Multiplier Bonus for Powerplay is introduced then there is always the possibility that such a feature could be applied to other aspects of the game. Whether either, neither or both of those possibilities occur is anyone's guess.
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I'm a pirate who usually operates lone-wolf, I get ganked regularly - it's no big deal. I only usually die if I stay and fight as escaping gank-wings is pretty easy what with high-waking and all.
Also if I get ganked in a system, I move on. I don't return 5 minutes later and hang around in supercruise - it's just common sense. The problem of gank-wings is exaggerated somewhat, there are many ways to get around them.
One of my favorite past-times is to drop into normal space when I see a gank wing approaching me, wait, then when they drop in I activate my FSD while sending them a message taunting them about how long it takes to low-wake - it's quite fun, you should give it a try.
So, your experience of ganking in open is as a predator whose game can be anywhere he likes and who is set up for light fighting and fast running? Try it as a trader in a T6 trying to do a CG in open and then get back to me.
Majinvash
Banned
It actually comes down to you. YOUR bad choice in ship and unrealistic expectations.
Expecting the weakest worst ship in the game to be suitable for a hostile environment is your mistake.
Blaming others for killing you is just a by-product.
If I wanted to run cargo in a CG, I would use a stripped out silent running Cobra. (Boosting around 440 and more agile than anything a gank wing will be using )
Now assuming you are running shields on your T6, which I would assume would be a 4A. You are left ( if you don’t run cell banks ) with 96 cargo.
A silent running Cobra will carry 60 and out run everything bar a Clipper ( of which hey, life is hard )
http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_iii/03D4A4A3D3D3D4C----0202030303010101.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==
So what you are really saying it that it’s too hard and would take more effort.
It is totally possible.
IF I wanted to run large quantities, I would run a Silent Cutter with Military Armour.
9/10 it is going to escape any situation and carry more cargo than a T9
Just learn to adapt and improve, don’t blame other players
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
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It seems gank-squads are a human phenomenon. It's almost as if the developers didn't consider gank-squads fair play, odd indeed.
I doubt FD never considered it. They would've had to have been asleep not to foresee wings being used in this way in an MMO game.
Having read the first few pages, discussion has been good. Haven't had time to read the last 10 or so. So don't know whether it deteriorated.
One little sidenote:
Disable the option of abandoning cargo when interdicted.
Create selling points in Anarchies which don't care whether goods are stolen. Thusly Wise, heh I said "Thusly Wise", creating a hub for pirates to sell their stuff, which might turn into Pirate Havens. And shooing them away from civilized systems where honest vendors don't deal with Pirates, but black markets still will at a reduced price.
At the same time, those Anarchies might have easy access to personal weapons, narcs and the like which are relatively cheap in those systems, but fetch high prices on the black market in civilised systems. Important since it will draw traders into the Pirate Havens trying to get a load out of the Pirate Havens, where they will try to dodge them Pirates, into civilized systems, where they can sell them for top credits. Since these items already have a questionable legal status, they cannot be marked as stolen goods. No one will report them as stolen goods, because that would mean difficult inquiries from law enforcement on how they have acquired these. So if a Pirate manages to nick these goods, they'll be able to sell them for that high pay-out.
edit: and I just realised the huge plothole in this idea ..... never mind
One little sidenote:
Disable the option of abandoning cargo when interdicted.
Create selling points in Anarchies which don't care whether goods are stolen. Thusly Wise, heh I said "Thusly Wise", creating a hub for pirates to sell their stuff, which might turn into Pirate Havens. And shooing them away from civilized systems where honest vendors don't deal with Pirates, but black markets still will at a reduced price.
At the same time, those Anarchies might have easy access to personal weapons, narcs and the like which are relatively cheap in those systems, but fetch high prices on the black market in civilised systems. Important since it will draw traders into the Pirate Havens trying to get a load out of the Pirate Havens, where they will try to dodge them Pirates, into civilized systems, where they can sell them for top credits. Since these items already have a questionable legal status, they cannot be marked as stolen goods. No one will report them as stolen goods, because that would mean difficult inquiries from law enforcement on how they have acquired these. So if a Pirate manages to nick these goods, they'll be able to sell them for that high pay-out.
edit: and I just realised the huge plothole in this idea ..... never mind
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I disagree. In my opinion the Devs weren't anticipating anti-social player-groups and gank squads at all. If they had, there would be NPC wings as well to counter the interdictor-happy hostile wings.
Wings only supports players, and I imagine they thought everyone would be thrilled and jump at the chance to wing-up at all times. However, the mechanics of the game doesn't encourage that kind of play. That's why we hear about so many 4v1 encounters. The incentive and ability for combat pilots to escort traders isn't there or else we would be seeing a lot more balanced wing encounters. I'm not saying balanced wing encounters don't happen, but if it was the norm I don't think we'd be seeing so many complaints here and in other social-media outlets.
Lastly, how many multiplayer or MMO games have FDev created before Elite: Dangerous? In my opinion, they weren't prepared to handle human nature in their game.
Translation: Trade ships are useless in open coz the only thing open is for is PvP.
So, you're back. You didn't answer my question earlier I note.
Well they labelled it as a 'cut-throat galaxy' from the start, so I'd say they did.
I very much doubt a moderate-sized developer like Frontier would jump into a project like this without some degree of research into online player behavior-patterns. Ganking is such a regular thing in online games, and it takes a minute or so of research on Google to figure that out.
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Flying into a dangerous area on your own in a trade ship is never going to end well - and nor should it. There are ways to counter it though; one way is to offer to pay for escort wings - there are plenty of white-knighters in CG areas who want to protect traders.
I'll agree to disagree if you will. It's my opinion that the multiplayer aspect of this game was not thought out to conclusion and was tacked on-top of the base game.
Ok
I agree with that sentiment, but in my mind it applies to different areas of the muliplayer experience (like bounty-hunting, crime etc) where FD have tried to use a 'one-size fits all' approach, when it clearly doesn't.
All due respect but I have to disagree as well. You only have to look at any of the video interviews with DBOBE where they speak about griefing to see his naivety... "It's going to be primarily a cooperative game, pvp will happen of course but it will be rare and meaningful, and we'll have strong consequences to moderate antisocial behaviour". You can see how well that worked out - consequences are laughable and practically non-existent, open is all about pvp, and the only reason it's rare is coz all the victims have fled to mobius or solo because it's pretty much meaningless.