Answer this.
- Thread starter BlueLumen
- Start date
El Dragoon!
Banned
ED would never let that happen and you know it, we all know it if pve mode will be a pirate heaven because pirateing is part of the game, there not going to get rid of it for a bunch of pvp butthurts
Well, not quite... I don't mind getting killed in a game. In fact, I play several PvP games, some of which were really designed for PvP only. I have no objections at all against fighting other players in a game where the PvP is any good.
However, you have it exactly right in the second part: the PvP meta builds that this game allows are awful for the game. Elite is supposed to be about space flight, exploring, trading, mining, landing on strange new worlds and driving around on them, piracy and bounty hunting. And for the last two, it's supposed to have both PvE and PvP.
However, the need to defend against ridiculous PvP builds means that, in anything but late-game ships, you can't really equip your ship to be good at any of the other things you're supposed to be able to do -- you just don't have the slots for it. So, having to account for the possibility of encountering a PvP meta build requires outfitting your ship in a way that almost eliminates 90% of the other fun stuff in the game. That's the problem. Though I suppose the PvP fanatics who think it's all supposed to be about PvP and that exploration, trading, mining and all that other stuff don't matter aren't going to get the point.
The NPCs currently are a bit stupid and relatively easy to kill. Which I think is a good thing for the game - you can easily equip a low to mid grade ship (think Cobra to Asp range) that can fight them while still retaining some multirole capability.
Nope, we don't know that. They wouldn't have to get rid of piracy. They would just stop them from working against players who are in PvE only. They would still work against NPCs, they would still work for PvP players against other PvP players, and if NPCs ever learn how to use them, they would work for NPCs as well against any player, mode regardless. The only thing that would need stopping is hatch breakers working against PvE only players. It stops the proposed behaviour you suggest might happen, and PvEers have no reason to use hatch breakers against other players... because, you know, PvE.
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Can I just say that I quite like things as they are.
There are three modes for a different kind of experience. I think all modes are just as valid and are the "real" way to play.
Personally, I play solo most of the time as I find meeting real people in a game a bit of an immersion breaker. I spend most of my time exploring anyway so I don't meet any NPC's, don't care which faction is doing what to who, which power is expanding where or which station needs enormous quantities of tea in order to complete some goal or other.
I do find the NPC's a bit easy to kill these days and am looking forward to the new meaner variety for the brief periods I am in the bubble. I happen to believe that stopping us being able to target sub-systems would greatly improve the combat experience. Killing an NPC Anaconda is far too easy as all you really need to do is take out the power plant which is a lot smaller task than taking out the Anaconda itself.
Thank you for your attention. I needed that.
There are three modes for a different kind of experience. I think all modes are just as valid and are the "real" way to play.
Personally, I play solo most of the time as I find meeting real people in a game a bit of an immersion breaker. I spend most of my time exploring anyway so I don't meet any NPC's, don't care which faction is doing what to who, which power is expanding where or which station needs enormous quantities of tea in order to complete some goal or other.
I do find the NPC's a bit easy to kill these days and am looking forward to the new meaner variety for the brief periods I am in the bubble. I happen to believe that stopping us being able to target sub-systems would greatly improve the combat experience. Killing an NPC Anaconda is far too easy as all you really need to do is take out the power plant which is a lot smaller task than taking out the Anaconda itself.
Thank you for your attention. I needed that.
My thoughts:
A dedicated Open PVE mode: nice idea, but a lot of the work has been done already with the Mobius group. If implemented correctly (can't fire on other players, use hatch breakers, or interdict) I would play it. For now, Mobius gets the job done. I think dedicated PVPers have gotten a serious concession with Arena mode. It's a DEDICATED GAME MODE, exclusively for PVP, and it is implemented in a balanced fashion. Anyone who still complains about an Open PVE mode is either a pirate or a griefer/troll, and I have no sympathy for either. The last player pirate I encountered in Open got a nasty surprise. I took out his engines, and then his canopy, and I watched him get spaced. Same day as when I joined Mobius. Playing in Open means accepting the risk, as such, I don't.
A dedicated Open PVE mode: nice idea, but a lot of the work has been done already with the Mobius group. If implemented correctly (can't fire on other players, use hatch breakers, or interdict) I would play it. For now, Mobius gets the job done. I think dedicated PVPers have gotten a serious concession with Arena mode. It's a DEDICATED GAME MODE, exclusively for PVP, and it is implemented in a balanced fashion. Anyone who still complains about an Open PVE mode is either a pirate or a griefer/troll, and I have no sympathy for either. The last player pirate I encountered in Open got a nasty surprise. I took out his engines, and then his canopy, and I watched him get spaced. Same day as when I joined Mobius. Playing in Open means accepting the risk, as such, I don't.
And this now means someone in the middle of engaging an AI (as a pirate) has their hatch breaker controller freak out as soon as any other commander comes within range? Or do they just remove them from the game?
It doesn't really matter what frontier do; without cartoon methods to handle all possible scenarios, people will find a way. Making it harder, only ups the challenge. There is quite a lot of trivialising of mechanics changes needed, and I don't think this is helping. Any time a CMDR crosses your field of fire against AI, what happens to the weapons? Do we have magic pixie bullets that just pass through CMDR ships and don't damage? What about ramming? No damage?
How much of the game are people prepared to bin, to make it "safe"? Because I have to question all the hand-wavium that is somehow making PVE possible within the current engine, without some very silly removal of mechanics basics. Just imagine if guns jam when you try to fire at an AI ship, because a CMDR rolls across your bow while you are engaged with the AI (this was a serious suggestion at some point).
If this isn't done well, a lot of commanders will be staring at a rebuy screen because half of their ability to enact game mechanics is thwarted by a system that is religiously stopping all forms of commander derived damage. Imagine if the fuel rats couldn't function in PVE, because the fuel limpet controller won't work on a commanders ship? Because, you know, PVE.
There are so very many player driven mechanics that will die in a fire under PVE, without a very solid piece of work from frontier. PVE doesn't exist at present because it's not easy to do without it becoming a cartoon model. This is why solo is the only true PVE mode, not because it's actually PVE, but because matchmaking places you into an empty instance; if another commander could somehow enter, I'd expect they'd actually be able to do damage.
I have no problem with PVE being add; but I am a bit tired of the attitude that it's okay to torch the entire game and or denigrate portions of the community to achieve it. Or that it's somehow trivially easy.
What I actually find hilarious is all the "immersion" people ask for, would necessarily have to be removed to facilitate PVE. This is how most games with PVE work; magic bullets that don't apply damage to another player. You can hit another player but it does no damage. There is no reality to it. I'm not sure if people actually realise this, or even care. Perhaps they don't.
I don't really want to see Open be anything different, because that is always going to be the closest thing we can get to something reasonably realistic. And I have no problem with improved PGs that provide more options and management, to allow PVE to flourish. If PVE needs to be a bit magic and silly to ensure commander combat (in any form) is impossible so be it. It's all options and more options are better than none.
I just want to play the game as frontier intended, you know?
And the thing is, groups like Mobius can work, because they institute a rule, and use banning as the stick; it doesn't require considerable changes to mechanics for that to work really well. The group has shown, however, that management of is a major problem and needs fixing; it just does. It's a good improvement to the game as a whole, as groups are used for all sorts of reasons - distant worlds was a group, as an example.
And I think PGs can respond to a lot of requests for different game modes, in a pretty fluid way; they just need to be able to be managed properly and scale better. Everyone gains a net benefit. A true PVE mode would be great, but this to me is really a long term goal that needs, it honestly needs good work from Frontier. And until they're in a good place to do this, forcing the issue through endless threads and demands and threats is just going to drive one of those knee-jerk reactions that is the end result of a rushed change.
This is just me. This is just my humble opinion.
In short - Improve PGs to make them an easily managed, flexible model for all sorts of commander use. Maybe add some kind of direct-damage switch to PGs so commanders can't really shoot at each other (even if there are other ways, it's going to respond to most of the argument put forward). Improve match-making and group management so that they can scale to larger sizes. Make PVE a mid-to-long term goal; and add it to the game in a really well thought out manner that makes it actually something worth using by as many as chose to.
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Yes please.
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Player walks in on another player one night...
"Heh heh heh I'm gonna show this clown," He says and opens fire on the FDL.
The FDL pilot cries in agony. He then turns around and as he's about to die scores a lucky hit on the attacker's engines and powerplant. The attacker is immobilized. As the FDL lines up his final shot...
"Heh heh heh, oh yeah? TAKE THIS!" The attacker screams and presses the PvE button. The FDL shoots, the FDL hits, the attacker takes no damage and the FDL is reported.
The attacker wins. PvE flag super shield becomes new meta.
No thanks...
PvE flags are a horrible idea. Open has always been anything goes--and as Sandro is realizing, it needs to have incentives, apparently, for some, so folks are willing to put up with the extra risks.
Myself--fun is my incentive. I need no reason to play Open as I enjoy it the random nature of it.
As good as which PvP players? AI is never going to be what the more rabid of the PvP players seem to want. Driving players out of a game in absolute frustration is one of the easiest things to accomplish in the game industry. It's been done countless times. XCOM: Enemy Unknown comes to mind. Players got frustrated and simply moved on. Level 27 of the old C64 Jumpan was the legendary stopping point for the vast majority of players. Maybe AI needs to be dialed up, maybe it doesn't, but the fact is that if it's so hard that players are no longer progressing, they'll leave. Which from what I gather from the comments is pretty what the aforementioned subset of PvP players want: The AI to be punish PvE players, harshly, because they can't join their solo instances to do it themselves. That's just never going to happen.
Cobra Mark IV is very slow. I like to think of it as the Faulcon DeLacy equivalent of trolling (or the designers were drunk as hell at the time). So no, it would struggle to chase a cutter.
Although cutter isn't super fast, like the clipper it has explosive boost acceleration, and a high cruising speed. The thing is, the argument over how tough AI is versus PCs is actually moot. PVE is wanted because some commanders do not want to be shot at by other commanders.
AI could be fish in a barrel, or impossibly hard. Neither is relevant if the direct goal is to remove commander derived damage.
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I'd go further than that.
Understanding it is not required because it has no material effect on the fact of it. This is game. Pick a mode and play it. If you don't like any of the three modes, stop playing it. If you just don't like one mode, don't play in that mode.
Do not stamp your feet and complain because this is the game that you bought. It is exactly as advertised. You do not get to remake the world according to your own vision.
No.
If we are talking about separate PvE mode, then it will still work against NPCs just not against PCs.
If we are talking about a PvE flag, then it will work against NPCs and any PCs that are set to PvP.
Its quite simple in concept. Not sure why people are struggling with it.
If FD implemented it so it worked like that it would be a design fail.
If you are doing a PvE flag, then you do it in a way that doesn't allow that sort of behaviour. For example, choosing your mode at login time, or only changing the mode when inside a station.
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Well to be fair if Fang took the trouble of writing all his ideas in detail, the least one can do it read them if one wants to comment on them.
I consider Solo the pacifist mode.
AI still attack me though.
It's too hard for me. I want a ''Can I play Daddy?'' game mode.
I spawn with 10 trillion credits and am the sole emperor of the galaxy.