Interesting choise of word there. Very fitting.
the station bandit last night
- Thread starter CMDR Noctivagus
- Start date
Interesting choise of word there. Very fitting.
Maybe we should change the course of this discussion toward what we think could alleviate the 'griefing' as it's perceived? Be a little more constructive?
Seems like better policing AI around stations will definitely be implemented, whether stronger station weapons or more aggressive and stronger AI ships.
How about an instant, very high bounty on perpetrators that persists for a set period of time over multiple systems?
Arguing about the effect of this conduct in the soon to be replaced Alpha 3 build seems at best rather pointless?
Seems like better policing AI around stations will definitely be implemented, whether stronger station weapons or more aggressive and stronger AI ships.
How about an instant, very high bounty on perpetrators that persists for a set period of time over multiple systems?
Arguing about the effect of this conduct in the soon to be replaced Alpha 3 build seems at best rather pointless?
I would assume that other players are ENTITLED to play without getting killed by people who camp the station then? Or having to deal with griefing muppets...
Unfortunately people who do these things never consider other peoples enjoyment.
G
Agreed. Given much of things are not in as yet. See what we get in this regard in Alpha 4 - But I wouldn't be concerned really in essence until relatively early in Beta.
@Paulo_B27
Just to be clear, Paulo, I do realise you weren't one of the individuals that the OP had issues with. And I also admire your brutal honesty, something that's very refreshing compared with some of the "ganking-as-testing" spin we've historically seen elsewhere on these forums since the multiplayer alpha went live.
The problem is that the content and tone of some of your posts are inconsistent. And the interpretation of those posts could, unfairly or otherwise, be coloured by those historical interactions. As an example:
To me, and I'm sure quite a few others, any phrase of the form "I was doing A to see what would happen with B" sounds very much like testing, especially in the context of an alpha. Which makes the first quote sound like an excuse of the kind we're all too familiar with, and so likely to result in the sort of replies you saw further up this thread.
But if your primary goal is not testing and you are simply attacking other players because you fancy a challenge then you are, by any reasonable definition, griefing. In which case a certain amount of backlash is inevitable on that count too, especially when you admit to having fun at the annoyance of others:
Similarly, since we're so close to the end of the 3.x alpha phase and perhaps a week or so from a full reset, the following seems quite reasonable given your claim that you weren't familiar with the limitations of space station defences:
But it doesn't chime with this at all:
The first quote sounds like someone who's exhausted the gameplay with the current build and wants to push a bit at the envelope in the remaining window before 4.x gets rolled out. The second sounds like someone who just wants to attack everyone everywhere for ѕhits and giggles.
Whether you're playing, testing, pushing the envelope or just plain bored you must be able to see how, whether or not you ultimately want a well-balanced game like everyone else, posts like that last one aren't the best way to endear yourself to the general population of these forums.
Just to be clear, Paulo, I do realise you weren't one of the individuals that the OP had issues with. And I also admire your brutal honesty, something that's very refreshing compared with some of the "ganking-as-testing" spin we've historically seen elsewhere on these forums since the multiplayer alpha went live.
The problem is that the content and tone of some of your posts are inconsistent. And the interpretation of those posts could, unfairly or otherwise, be coloured by those historical interactions. As an example:
To me, and I'm sure quite a few others, any phrase of the form "I was doing A to see what would happen with B" sounds very much like testing, especially in the context of an alpha. Which makes the first quote sound like an excuse of the kind we're all too familiar with, and so likely to result in the sort of replies you saw further up this thread.
But if your primary goal is not testing and you are simply attacking other players because you fancy a challenge then you are, by any reasonable definition, griefing. In which case a certain amount of backlash is inevitable on that count too, especially when you admit to having fun at the annoyance of others:
Similarly, since we're so close to the end of the 3.x alpha phase and perhaps a week or so from a full reset, the following seems quite reasonable given your claim that you weren't familiar with the limitations of space station defences:
But it doesn't chime with this at all:
The first quote sounds like someone who's exhausted the gameplay with the current build and wants to push a bit at the envelope in the remaining window before 4.x gets rolled out. The second sounds like someone who just wants to attack everyone everywhere for ѕhits and giggles.
Whether you're playing, testing, pushing the envelope or just plain bored you must be able to see how, whether or not you ultimately want a well-balanced game like everyone else, posts like that last one aren't the best way to endear yourself to the general population of these forums.
How about the possibility of sending out an immediate "distress call" from the attacked to all PC in vicinity that paints the attacker as "hostile" to everyone else. The call could only be made from the ship that suffered first impacts and the hostile could only be painted by a targeting sequence of the attacked?
Is there any video of all that thing that happened? I cannot find it at all. It is weird that nobody would recorded that.
How about the possibility of sending out an immediate "distress call" from the attacked to all PC in vicinity that paints the attacker as "hostile" to everyone else. The call could only be made from the ship that suffered first impacts and the hostile could only be painted by a targeting sequence of the attacked?
Doesn't this already sort of happen with the function in the right menu panel for reporting crimes against you?
My thinking was the station detects aggression as it has every nearby ship on its traffic control sensors, so a more brutal response can be initiated without the victims input.
Basically sending out the police, arming weapons installations if the aggressor is in range and immediately setting a priority bounty on the aggressor for committing the unparalleled crime of deadly actions near a massive civilian population.
From a gameplay perspective I like that this enables players to a sudden 'he who pacifies the threat gets a big reward' but doesn't entirely disable the ability to attack others near a station.
Therefore around busy hub high security stations it's a really dangerous or suicidal course of action, while in quieter systems with less players / AI it's still risky.
Even in anarchy systems which are quite busy it'd be dangerous for the aggressor, while in quiet anarchy systems not so much. But that's to be expected by the victim.
Does this then immediately show the perpetrator as hostile to all present, system wide, PCs? My idea was for something instantaneous, so that helpful commanders would be alerted within seconds.
Within 1k of the station, instant death by railgun, docking rights in system revoked even after death, huge bounty, all goods, buy orders and sell orders in system and same faction systems confiscated. Firing guns near a space station should be a very serious crime and mark you as a terrorist.
Maybe spheres of protection, 1k to 10k out a big security detail is send out, 10k -500k small security detail and bigger bounty (so people can still assinate other people near station). Still docking rights in system revoked and buy/sell orders and goods in system and same faction systems confiscated.
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The problem is that with this line of discussion everyone, or at least everyone who is going around blasting at will, is assuming they are actually playing a game at the moment when they're patently not.
The only way at this stage is to accept that the Alpha code is just that: code to be tested. Anyone firing up the software and treating it as a game is doing the software and their fellow Alpha testers a diservice.
The reality is that at this stage there should be very few, if any people actually running the current Alpha 3.4 software as there is almost no point in testing anything. The code is about to be replaced with the Alpha 4.0 code release so in effect anything that results from Alpha 3.4 use is effectively null and void.
The problem is the likes of Paulo are assuming they're playing a game rather than carrying out testing on pre-release sections of code and in acting according to that assumption are stopping people like the OP actually doing any actual FD directed testing. Their self appropriated sense of entitlement at playing a game is actually delaying any actual game that they can play being made.
It's laughable. It's why Mr. Brookes never wanted the Alpha and both Beta packs being pre-order options (he probably didn't want Alpha and Beta phases in the Kickstarter pledges either and I don't blame him).
The solution to the problem is simple. The goons going around thinking they've bought early access need to stop treating Alpha as a game and start letting the others who are treating the Alpha as it actually is, a testing phase, to get on with what they're trying to do. At this time none-consensual PvP anywhere except the FFA sector is not helping. The reason there is so few people in the FFA sector now is that the systems relating to nonconsensual PvP have been tested to death and there is no longer any reason for partaking in it other than to grief which is actually stopping any current testing that people need to do for FD such as what the OP was trying to do.
In the original Elite I seem to remember that any bad behavior around space stations had the galactic police pouring out of the station in droves and they would quickly overwhelm and destroy the offender.
Surely this is hat is needed in ED to force people to behave at least until they're a set distance from the station?
Just because you think I called you an idiot it doesn't mean I did call you an idiot. It just means what you think happened and what really happened are different and you should probably be more careful about how you leap to conclusions based on what you assume you know.
If you WASN'T TESTING why are you participating in the Alpha phase at all? As I wrote above, this is not a game yet. In engaging in nonconsensual PvP at this stage in the process you're stopping people who want to test actually doing so. In other words you're preventing the progress towards you being able to play a game and not helping in any way. The FFA sector is for what you're trying to do not Port Zelada.
And before you come back with the "there's no one in the FFA sector and it's boring" that's because you're at least 2 weeks behind the curve. PvP in all its guises has already been tested to death (excuse the pun) so there is no point for any of the actual bonifide testers to go there.
If you DO want to do PvP then tell people in another thread in the Alpha forum when you'll be in the FFA or Miners and Hunters sectors and ask them to take you on. That would be the correct way to act at this stage rather than shooting everything on sight for the 'fun of it'.
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Yes it is. The point though is this feature hasn't been released as test code into the Alpha builds yet and probably won't be until the latter stages of Alpha 4. Again though, you're assuming Alpha is a proper game with everything functioning as it should be when all it is is a test bed for various small sections of the code that will eventually become a game. The difference is very important and those that can't see that difference need to take a step back and wonder why they spent £200.
I arrive late to the party but my message is the same.
You can do what you want, when you want, and how you want, during Alpha.
The Devs themselves in the Alpha forum said there are no rules of engagement, no style or method by which you should play, and if you can break and abuse the game now during alpha so much the better. (Obviously paraphrased)
Whilst this means right now there are going to be some who abuse this fact in my eyes that's fine as FD can learn about behaviour patterns, methods of abuse and work on fixes. They probably are griefing you but that's ok for now.
Yes, that means for now you might be griefed but that's the nature of an Alpha - ticket the experience and let FD know via the correct channel (threads like these serve no purpose) and with enough tickets FD will react in time.
If you are repeatedly killed by individuals come back later - if you can't and wanted to test something post a request on the forum for others to try it for you. In time, with enough tickets and patience things will get better - FD are aware of what goes on (hence their post on the subject) and the more tickets raised on the subject the better the game will be.
Complaining on forums legitimises the griefers actions and tells them they have won.
You can do what you want, when you want, and how you want, during Alpha.
The Devs themselves in the Alpha forum said there are no rules of engagement, no style or method by which you should play, and if you can break and abuse the game now during alpha so much the better. (Obviously paraphrased)
Whilst this means right now there are going to be some who abuse this fact in my eyes that's fine as FD can learn about behaviour patterns, methods of abuse and work on fixes. They probably are griefing you but that's ok for now.
Yes, that means for now you might be griefed but that's the nature of an Alpha - ticket the experience and let FD know via the correct channel (threads like these serve no purpose) and with enough tickets FD will react in time.
If you are repeatedly killed by individuals come back later - if you can't and wanted to test something post a request on the forum for others to try it for you. In time, with enough tickets and patience things will get better - FD are aware of what goes on (hence their post on the subject) and the more tickets raised on the subject the better the game will be.
Complaining on forums legitimises the griefers actions and tells them they have won.
Respectfully I don't agree. People paid up to gain early access to the game and can do, within the rules set by FD (and not by you) anything they like. All usage of the Alpha, from testing to playing, is valuable to FD and no single method is correct. If people are abusing the mechanics in the game (or lack thereof) then ticket it - don't come on a forum telling others how to use their time in an Alpha as you didn't pay for their access. I agree that griefing is annoying but better now during Alpha (when the process is mainly about concepts and not bugs/balance) than later in Beta / release.
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And just because you CAN do anything you want it doesn't mean you SHOULD do anything you want. I, like the vast majority of people in the western world, have the right to free expression/speech. That means I can say what the heck I want whenever I want to. But I also recognise that there are things that I really shouldn't be saying or expressing, particularly in public places. I have the right to say what I want but I also have the responsibility to not use that right inappropriately such as inciting others to do harm or violence.
The same analogy is here. Yes, FD has given us carte-blanche to do whatever we want to in Alpha but with that comes certain responsibilities like making sure our actions don't significantly impinge on the actions of others and what they're trying to find out.
There is currently no in-game communication method so we have no idea what those around us are trying to achieve so we must assume that others are carrying out legitimate testing requested by FD at this stage of the process as the OP was trying to do.
Just shooting at anything that moves in a sector that isn't designated for PvP and has no protection against such is abusing the right that FD has given.
Lack of comms works both ways - you have no idea if the 3v1 squad are testing something or not so that argument is moot. I know from the man himself that Snuffler was testing a rare bug involving PvP and so killed people regularity without warning - Lots of people complained and yet he was doing exactly what you suggested - testing.
There is no abuse of rights as there are no rights - you do as you please, but ultimately you also live by your actions. The fact that we have freedom of speech means exactly that - you can say whatever you like but you live by your words. Equally you can do what you like in ED but you live by your actions. If you get a name as a griefer then post release you maybe remembered as such even if you were "testing" and that's the nature of Alpha.
The "do as you please" in ED is a smart move by FD IMO. Gives the griefers, hackers and cheats freedom to play but on the knowledge that FD are watching, learning and ultimately patching.
ETA: we all paid good money to join the alpha. Ultimately then, within the rules set by FD (and only them) you can do what you like. If you are bring prevented from testing something reach out to the community for help in that test. It's in our interest to test the concepts (as that in my understanding is what Alpha is about) and if they don't work (like station defence) ticket FD. Not everyone reads the forum so won't know for sure if things have been tested or not, so telling people what to do is futile.
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That's fine. Snuffler could easily have solved most, if not all of the back lash in that situation by putting a post in the Alpha forum saying "I'm trying to track down an intermittant fault. I need willing victims in the FFA sector at <x> time on <y> day or at least if you see me close by expect to get shot at. Will let you know when I've finished" or words to that effect.