(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[GilliganTX]

I explained how wing tend to eat up small targets too fast. And a solo player pace just right for there always to be small targets.

IMO CZs/Millitary strikes favor the wing for suitability reasons, but it's less of an issue for better ships. When I had just a Cobra, I was deffinelty more efficient with a wing than solo in expansion zones.

That might not be the case if I went back with a corevette. *shrug*

Also, if you have a wing of players who can stay in some semblance of a formation you don't really have to wait on anyone.

 

[Mohrgan]

Point out where I've insisted on a bribe, I want to see, where have I explicitly said I intend to bribe, point it out, words are cheap.

What counts as "win" or "lose" in your idea? Ship destruction? Because if that's the case, no one's going to waste time blowing each other up for 5/10 merits.

What if people farm by blowing up cheap ships?

Don't just throw ideas and numbers out without giving them thoughts.

It all breaks down into this when your house of cards is up-set. I don;t need to prove you said it, for the characterization to be true. Yeah, exactly, so then there isn't any real risk if no one get blown up. Farm all you like, you are still engaged in playing Elite, rock on. All of my suggestions and points have cogent arguments behind them. Your approval is not required.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Mohrgan

So you're advocating for it not to be a flat rate across the board, but linked to actual engagements in combat ?

Read the part about "Bonus" and you'll see.

But tl;dr, yea, pretty much.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Also, if you have a wing of players who can stay in some semblance of a formation you don't really have to wait on anyone.

That quickly falls apart, even for organized players. And that's player-group organized as in having TS. Normal players that just wing up with one another won't have that level of coordination.

Not to mention the time wasted on locating target and put a hit on it hinders the players quite extensively. If all destroyed ships by a member of the wing automatically grant all wing members merits regardless of of having a tag or not, then I might be more inclined to agree.

 

[Boomer Kay]

To end this travesty for myself .. Here - one commander less in Solo to compete against should make up for all the <snip> individual disadvantage.
I'm out.

 

[Jenner]

Time out, people. Drama is up HERE....
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..
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Needs to be down here.

 

[Jenner]

Ok, re-opened. I've removed several posts that were in violation of forum rules. Please be respectful. Thank you.

 

[GilliganTX]

Thanks Jenner.

That quickly falls apart, even for organized players. And that's player-group organized as in having TS. Normal players that just wing up with one another won't have that level of coordination.

Not to mention the time wasted on locating target and put a hit on it hinders the players quite extensively. If all destroyed ships by a member of the wing automatically grant all wing members merits regardless of of having a tag or not, then I might be more inclined to agree.

Yeah, not much of a chance to do it randomly. Has to be a coordinated thing.

Anecdotal accounts being anecdotal, I *felt* like I was earning merits quicker in a wing, but I was also having more fun.

Something about time flying...


And eh, if you have a keybind for "select wingman target," and designate a flight lead to pick targets, it works.

 

[GluttonyFang]

And eh, if you have a keybind for "select wingman target," and designate a flight lead to pick targets, it works.

I use it, but usually people are spread out, if they stay too close to each other, they miss out on potential target. Not to mention that other NPCs are also shooting, so some target need immediate attention upon discovery.

From experience, the rate of merit earning doesn't feel different.

 

[Korlan]

Your point about what FD promised makes some sense to me. However I think it was definitely not the best decision for balancing purposes.
I was not a backer on kickstarter, I did buy in as soon as i heard of the game, which was around a month before release. The point there would be that I as a player who put money in afterwards, so to speak, am not even aware of half of these things promised to backers. Which, for me, could change my plans for buying future expansions as the money I will end up paying might not give me the best game.

Now, without considering that I did not have the option of laying the groundwork for development goals, a suggestion to bring people into the PP game in open and in some way balance the drawbacks of open play would be as follows:

1)Implement a system where players are in direct competition in PP by adding credit bonuses for PP kills against players. Much like a Deadly NPC will pay out more credits in bounty then a mostly harmless NPC, perhaps players should be considered a multiplier in PvP bonds from PP factions. Say an NPC PP ship gives 1000cr - 100,000 credits, and PP kills versus players get 1500 - 200,000 or some other type of scale.

-or-

2)This could even be added as a normal mechanic, perhaps some sort of 'scrap bonus' based on the destroyed ships rebuy cost. aka a 2 million rebuy ship would net 40-60% of ship rebuy value for the attacker. This would also be easily applied to both solo and private groups. And as suggested before about merits for player kills, perhaps doubling or tripling the current vs NPC amount to reflect the level of danger ( similar to dangerous and elite rank differences for bounties ) or even putting it on a scale of 1 merit to 100 merits depending on rank of pilot and whether it is player or NPC.

I think this would be equal in the same sense of egalitarian viewpoints. The bonus is there in solo and private play, however they don't have access to the bonus since there are no other players in solo, or have a managed implementation in private. Analogous to the safety bonus both these game types have, which you simply don't have access to in Open.

 

[ianstrauss]

nevermind

 

[tagos]

It begs the question; Why? Why is making open the sensible choice important? Why can't Solo be the go to mode? Save the competitive scope spin.

The paying customers have voted with their thumbs. They prefer other modes than Open. They won't be bribed or coerced into being the game content for other players. If people don't want to PvP they don't want to PvP. I've seen what happens in other games that try and coerce people to PVP. I've also seen how there will always be enough numpties in PvP to ruin it for everyone else.

I quite enjoy the extra tension of Open occasionally. That is its own reward. But mostly I just want to play in other modes. You can bribe me all you like. If you decide to penalise me for my mode choices then I probably won't do those activities. If you penalise too many activities I'll probably just do what I've done in other games and just bail.

Letting the tail wag the dog is never a great idea.

 

[Zak Gordon]

The paying customers have voted with their thumbs. They prefer other modes than Open. They won't be bribed or coerced into being the game content for other players. If people don't want to PvP they don't want to PvP. I've seen what happens in other games that try and coerce people to PVP. I've also seen how there will always be enough numpties in PvP to ruin it for everyone else.

Exactly. If FD want to force us to play Open, well that would definately feel like what Microsoft is doing to Windows 7 users that don't want Windows 10, and that is never a good idea for future happy relationships.

If there are not enough PvP players to keep them happy in Open, maybe, just maybe FD should drop that focus for the games development, and maybe, just maybe, ED would be far more successfull and for longer?

 

[tagos]

I have very rarely encountered enjoyable PvP in any game. Usually it's just an unequal encounter that stems from no in-game reason other than 'I'm playing a psychopath.'

Cruise around in my Asp and the only attackers are in Pythons. Cruise around in a trader and I'm a sitting duck. PvP is fun for one side of the equation mostly. No amount of bribes compensate for the multi million credit certain loss.

Open mode was a nice idea but it isn't the primary mode. The Primary Mode is whatever an individual player chooses.

Given my choice I'd rather be hearing about improved interdiction mechanics, AI wingmen, AI crew, better escort mechanics, AI tanker refuel ships for escort fighters.

The single biggest thing that would encourage more players into Open would be being able to hire escorts whose AI could seriously challenge player attackers. Supplemented by good Fleet management tools. Put the Dev effort into that.

Until traders can actually defend themselves you won't get players to consider Open to be their primary mode. Tackle that problem and problems like the Power Play issue solve themselves. They are really just symptoms of the fundamental problem that a PVP encounter is almost invariably a No Win No Fun situation for one side or the other.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Bumped for MrJupp.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Exactly. If FD want to force us to play Open, well that would definately feel like what Microsoft is doing to Windows 7 users that don't want Windows 10, and that is never a good idea for future happy relationships.

If there are not enough PvP players to keep them happy in Open, maybe, just maybe FD should drop that focus for the games development, and maybe, just maybe, ED would be far more successfull and for longer?

Or maybe, just maybe, that is a pointless argument? How about: "Obviously people much prefer CoD over Elite's powerplay, so FD should just drop the whole space-stuff and make an FPS shooter." People prefer football games over ED, too! Season 3 should focus on adding more football-related activities: "FD shouldnt force us to do space stuff when I want to do football stuff." Here's this 130+ page topic in summary:

FD: Hey guys, here's a new gameplay thingy for people looking to compete against each other on a huge scale!
PvE guys: Booo! We dont want this! We hate anything to do with competing with other people!
FD: No problem, why dont you just not play Powerplay and do something PvE instead?
PvE guys: Booo! We want every single thing in this game to be about what we want it to be about!
FD: Whatever, fine. But at least we'll give a small bonus to those who play this specific thing the way we intended it to be, including actual risk.
PvE guys: Booo! Thats not fair! You're discriminating against us! We want the same rewards as everyone else!
FD: You get the same rewards, but if you dont want to face the intended risks, you are not going to be helping your team as much.
PvE guys: Booo! We demand to compete with others, whether they want to or not, and they shouldn't be able shoot at us or stop us in any way!
FD: You know, thats not really the game we're trying to make here...
PvE guys: Booo! Who cares about what YOU want anyway, just do what we want and ignore everybody else, including yourself. If you don't, we'll gonna scream FD ignores their users! We'll put it on steam!
FD: ...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Given my choice I'd rather be hearing about improved interdiction mechanics, AI wingmen, AI crew, better escort mechanics, AI tanker refuel ships for escort fighters.

The single biggest thing that would encourage more players into Open would be being able to hire escorts whose AI could seriously challenge player attackers. Supplemented by good Fleet management tools. Put the Dev effort into that.

Let me break it to you: none of that will make a difference. You can have a wing of 10 condas and corvettes protecting you, and a wing can kill you in 5 seconds all the same. If your stance is 'somebody else should protect me', you'll not going to be very safe. Ever. You can have repercussions, but you cant prevent the crime from being executed unless you yourself do it. Which is basically what Elite is about: becoming as good a pilot as you can be. Not saying "hey, I can fly from A to B in a straight line, now let everyone else take care of more difficult challenges for me".

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Or maybe, just maybe, that is a pointless argument? How about: "Obviously people much prefer CoD over Elite's powerplay, so FD should just drop the whole space-stuff and make an FPS shooter." People prefer football games over ED, too! Season 3 should focus on adding more football-related activities: "FD shouldnt force us to do space stuff when I want to do football stuff."

Which would boil down to every manufacturer across the world producing chocolate ice cream.

Here's this 130+ page topic in summary

Very, very weak. Bad Sleutelbos!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Which would boil down to every manufacturer across the world producing chocolate ice cream.


Very, very weak. Bad Sleutelbos!

Which is probably why this annoys me so much. I hate chocolate anything. Except chocolate itself, I actually like that a great deal. As for the summary, its a bit over-the-top, but more or less the argumentation I see. Pretty much all counter-arguments I see stem from simply refusing the following three axioms:

1) FD intends PP to be an environment for competitive player against player activities.
2) In solo this idea is undermined.
3) That is a problem.

Ignoring the other topic with the detailed proposal by Furry, this topic completely failed to either provide a better solution that is as easy and simple to implement, or explain why no fix is better than what Sandro proposed, given the axioms above. And if you're honest, you've gotta admit that 90% of the angry responses are nothing more than "I dont care about others, I want to do what I want in solo and dont care how that influences other people." Its basically the Eric Cartman defence.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Some powers seems to be very PvE focused tough, I don't quite understand why Powerplay should be all about PvP when looking at powers like Mahon.

Always tough Powerplay was supposed something where there are diffrent powers that appeal to diffrent playstyle, and not all powers are about the same playstyle.

 

[Boomer Kay]

2) In solo this idea is undermined.

It isn't.
It can not be when competitive players are switching to solo mode to gain one of dozens of competitive advantages you can and can not have, one of them being social interaction and gaining new allies to your personal cause, which is exclusive to open or ... having a bad internet connection that automatically clears the open universe for you.

But since you seem to think it is, I quit that competition. I don't want to "tele bully" someone into something from the safety of my solo mode.
You win. gg