Let's get one thing straight.

[Mohrgan]

Why would them switching make a difference to FD, or Sandro? Only because they hear complaints. They would like to have complaints be addressed but, they find more complaints. Fairness is subjective. What is the yardstick you measure to is subjective. There is no way around it. The easiest choice is actual equality. Each mode is the same as the next so it is up to the individual. There is no way fairer.

Let individual players choose their own path. It meets the subjective nature of fairness, by letting each player weigh the issues for themselves, and it meet the objective nature on face value. Coexist. Why should how I play worry anyone else at all?

 

[bitstorm]

Why would them switching make a difference to FD, or Sandro? Only because they hear complaints. They would like to have complaints be addressed but, they find more complaints. Fairness is subjective. What is the yardstick you measure to is subjective. There is no way around it. The easiest choice is actual equality. Each mode is the same as the next so it is up to the individual. There is no way fairer.

WEll the measure I stated in the post above yours.

On why would switching make a difference to Frontier. I'm not sure but for me I'd say ultimately the more fragmented the playerbase is the more the game will suffer. That ED played solo does not have the legs (or potential) as ED played with other people.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Spoiler

WEll the measure I stated in the post above yours.

On why would switching make a difference to Frontier. I'm not sure but for me I'd say ultimately the more fragmented the playerbase is the more the game will suffer. That ED played solo does not have the legs (or potential) as ED played with other people.

This game was fragmented the moment FD opened it's doors with the 3 "modes" - it seemed to me like a good idea at the time & maybe it still is as only FD have the numbers. Not much can be done about that now other than to treat each mode equally - sadly, FD aren't even doing that any more (PP to get a bonus in open; with Sandro himself saying [paraphrasing] that looking into other areas was on the table)

 

[joshman72nd]

Sorry the OP got hammered for writing something that required, perish the though using a bit of comprehension and perhaps some reasoned measured responses. Then again this forum is hardly the place for that.

if you think this forums bad you need to look at wot/warblunder forums...... child like stat       wavers l2p shouters without any advice on how to play properly everywhere.

 

[bitstorm]

This game was fragmented the moment FD opened it's doors with the 3 "modes" - it seemed to me like a good idea at the time & maybe it still is as only FD have the numbers. Not much can be done about that now other than to treat each mode equally - sadly, FD aren't even doing that any more (PP to get a bonus in open; with Sandro himself saying [paraphrasing] that looking into other areas was on the table)

But that makes no sense. Whether we have fragmentation or not is irrelevant.

Whether we increase or decrease the level fragmentation from this point is what's important.

 

[Bill Clement]

~OP I don't think Frontier will ever remove these modes, there's no need to worry on this front.

I think Open IS the preferred mode for Frontier and for the community in general, it's the mode that unifies players, and I think player interaction is going to be really important for the long term future of the game.

There's totally no reason folk can't drop into solo if the mood takes them or whatever, as I say I don't think this mode is going away.

Sure people go solo for many many reasons, some people WILL be going solo for some of the reasons you state you aren't. Some of these folk have said such many times.

While I agree with most of what you say, you're missing the point of the post. 'Some' people isn't 'most' people and the vocal 'some' don't represent the OP, or those like him who aren't usually moved to voice their opinion.

Your opinion that open is the preferred mode is at odds with FD advertising and many of the interviews FD staff have given. When they make a statement it's to the effect that the three modes are equal; their advertising concentrates on co-operative play, offering a game you can play with friends. Neither the often stated instance that solo is as valid as open, nor advertising that suggests group co-op play is a major selling point of the game, suggest that open is the preferred mode.

Assuming that the small number of posters on this board are broadly representative of the wider community I'd challenge the notion that open unifies people. Player interaction is really important, but that's available in group, in a far more palatable form.

Can't argue with your reasoning in OP, it's well said, and I agree and have largely the same reasons for playing in Solo occasionally. But the crux of the issue isn't really about why you play in whichever mode and any justification you make is unfortunately just as moot as any of the reasons anyone else claims to the contrary.

The issue is that the three modes share the same background simulation. Players who choose to be in the biggest shared mode still have to deal with the consequences of those who don't.

You said "I just don't want to deal with you." Well, the counter-argument would be "I just don't want to deal with your influence."

If you play solo or group you have to deal with the game's evolution currently being driven by concerns that originate in open. Crime and punishment is likely to be heavily revamped, group management is concentrating on defences against open players lying their way into private groups, ship balance is being driven toward traders better able to defend themselves against gangs of human piloted ships. These all affect players in solo and group much more than the irritation that open players feel when they can't get at the players undermining their faction in their preferred game mode. The character of our game is changing and resources are being disproportionally spent addressing open concerns. We (you) have far more real influence over solo and group players than vice versa.

As I've said before, I play in open, I'm not in the Mobius Group, solo isn't for me. But open players already get the lion's share of developer attention, complaining about a PP mechanism comes across as petty and unnecessary unless you can provide an example of an exclusively open group being beaten by an exclusively solo one.

If PP is your thing and not just a debating point, consider this. Even if PP was only available in open, the players moving the most material would still win. Allocating a portion of your available force to interdiction is foolish, given the way our game works- different time zones, instancing, the potential for opposing forces to circumvent your interdiction using existing game mechanics to name just three. The 'solo' playstyle would always give better results, given roughly equal forces. Hanging around in warships looking for a fight when you could be transporting goods is a sure fire way to lose the contest. If you feel that playing in solo gives an advantage, feel free to take it. When I oppose you, I'll be in open. In spite of the greater odds of human interference I'm willing to bet that the contest will still come down to which of us has the better understanding of PP mechanisms and the more suitable ship, not the 'dangerous' mode I chose.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Whether we have fragmentation or not is irrelevant.

Whether we increase or decrease the level fragmentation from this point is what's important.

Ah, but it is relevant. The game offers players a choice and through that choice the community is fragmented. This choice, as things stand, isn't going away so it can't get any worse as it's already at rock bottom. [in terms of fragmentation]

That for me would be the starting point : accept that the game is forever fragmented or fix the root cause - Drop all modes and make 2 : open-PvE / open-PvP.

(Or you can take the path that FD is considering which is to favour open by giving "rewards" but that opens Pandora's box of whine threads)

 

[Bill Clement]

WEll the measure I stated in the post above yours.

On why would switching make a difference to Frontier. I'm not sure but for me I'd say ultimately the more fragmented the playerbase is the more the game will suffer. That ED played solo does not have the legs (or potential) as ED played with other people.

Again Bits, that's your opinion, not the opinion of FD or the proportion of players who prefer solo.

Just for clarification, when Sandro looked at PP his assumption was that players are choosing solo to gain some perceived advantage, something he wants to discourage. FD don't like exploits. The possibility that players interested in PP are also players who find griefing and ganking objectionable wasn't considered, at least in the statement he made. The data he considered is objective, determining a rationale for the behaviour observed is subjective. It's entirely possible that the PP stats actually highlighted something that has nothing to do with PP...

 

[Jypson]

Ah, but it is relevant. The game offers players a choice and through that choice the community is fragmented. This choice, as things stand, isn't going away so it can't get any worse as it's already at rock bottom. [in terms of fragmentation]

That for me would be the starting point : accept that the game is forever fragmented or fix the root cause - Drop all modes and make 2 : open-PvE / open-PvP.

(Or you can take the path that FD is considering which is to favour open by giving "rewards" but that opens Pandora's box of whine threads)

Or maybe just leave it as it is? No amount of 'balancing' or mode modifying will stay the grumblings of grumbly people not getting their way.

 

[Itaki]

I have to say I don't quite understand your logic there. Are you saying that anyone who prefers not to play in open is guilty of combat logging? If so, then presumably those in open who go off in to the wild blue yonder exploring, or those traders that run from combat or anyone that does not stand and fight anyone and everyone that encounters them is also guilty of combat logging?

I looked up the definition of combat logging just to be sure of the term and I cannot see how your accusation applies.

Or are you just being contrary for the sake of it?

Why don't we have "Combat Logging Day". Everyone brings out their BIG ship and trolls LHS 3447. Take a few hits from a pirate then 'close window.'

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Why don't we have "Combat Logging Day". Everyone brings out their BIG ship and trolls LHS 3447. Take a few hits from a pirate then 'close window.'

Fly safe .. fly legal .. use the 15 second timer (Alt F4 may get you into trouble with FD)

 

[Derath]

Again Bits, that's your opinion, not the opinion of FD or the proportion of players who prefer solo.

Just for clarification, when Sandro looked at PP his assumption was that players are choosing solo to gain some perceived advantage, something he wants to discourage. FD don't like exploits. The possibility that players interested in PP are also players who find griefing and ganking objectionable wasn't considered, at least in the statement he made. The data he considered is objective, determining a rationale for the behaviour observed is subjective. It's entirely possible that the PP stats actually highlighted something that has nothing to do with PP...

Nah, its assumed that doing powerplay in open is less effective than solo thats all, which is true almost every activity is more effective in solo - the real question is how much of an impact is there, if there is enough to justify a bonus then they might put one in, if there isn't they really should avoid messing about with the balance.

Personally I can't see it having the impact to justify a bonus, not because it doesn't matter, but because its a sidewards attempt to fix a powerplay issue - if they want to fix powerplay they need to look at it head on and make real changes to how it functions, not give a mode a bonus and call it a day.

 

[bitstorm]

While I agree with most of what you say, you're missing the point of the post. 'Some' people isn't 'most' people and the vocal 'some' don't represent the OP, or those like him who aren't usually moved to voice their opinion.

Your opinion that open is the preferred mode is at odds with FD advertising and many of the interviews FD staff have given. When they make a statement it's to the effect that the three modes are equal; their advertising concentrates on co-operative play, offering a game you can play with friends. Neither the often stated instance that solo is as valid as open, nor advertising that suggests group co-op play is a major selling point of the game, suggest that open is the preferred mode.

Assuming that the small number of posters on this board are broadly representative of the wider community I'd challenge the notion that open unifies people. Player interaction is really important, but that's available in group, in a far more palatable form.

That's a different topic though, you're using a different meaning of "unify" to make a point.

Open is the one mode everyone shares, from that point of view it IS the place where everyone is unified. Private groups are exactly that, private groups, I cannot just just enter your private group.

Anything outside of open has barriers to entry and as such barriers to play with other people, advocating any group above open results in *some level of* fragmentation.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ah, but it is relevant. The game offers players a choice and through that choice the community is fragmented. This choice, as things stand, isn't going away so it can't get any worse as it's already at rock bottom. [in terms of fragmentation]

That for me would be the starting point : accept that the game is forever fragmented or fix the root cause - Drop all modes and make 2 : open-PvE / open-PvP.

You're advocating getting rid of solo?? Not gonna happen.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

You're advocating getting rid of solo?? Not gonna happen.

If it was down to me .. yes. However it's not, and I am very aware it won't happen

 

[bitstorm]

Again Bits, that's your opinion, not the opinion of FD or the proportion of players who prefer solo.

I'm sorry but how do you know Frontier aren't of the opinion that open should be encouraged in order to increase the longevity of the game?

Player interaction is what will keep people coming back. There's just simply much less content with solo play, whether that play is PvP, co-operative or whatever, play that involves other players adds a bucket load of interest, content and surprises.

Solo play? No emergent gameplay is possible, no fuel rats, no UA collaborations, no Distant Worlds, no record breaking trades, no bizarre conversations around barnacles where suddenly David Braben turns up, no Elite Racers, no Kate Russell charity streams involving other people and so on....

Sure solo players might disagree that's obvious.

 

[Boff'in]

I keep chat on steam turned off for the exact same reasons the ops has.

There are times when I want to play games to get away from people and have time for "me" and not for others, I've been dealing with other humans for the majority of the day. It's not like a book reading club where everyone has to read in the same circle. It's okay to read a chapter or two by yourself when the mood takes you.

That doesn't exclude that do not like the idea of multiplayer games. I Iove them. Team based, or an mmo like ED. some of my all time highs have been playing with my crew.

I usually play in open. But more often than not, I'll just plug in solo, just to have quality time with me and my game and not to have engage the "how to deal with this human" sub routine in my brain.

 

[Jypson]

I'm sorry but how do you know Frontier aren't of the opinion that open should be encouraged in order to increase the longevity of the game?

Player interaction is what will keep people coming back. There's just simply much less content with solo play, whether that play is PvP, co-operative or whatever, play that involves other players adds a bucket load of interest, content and surprises.

Solo play? No emergent gameplay is possible, no fuel rats, no UA collaborations, no Distant Worlds, no record breaking trades, no bizarre conversations around barnacles where suddenly David Braben turns up, no Elite Racers, no Kate Russell charity streams involving other people and so on....

Sure solo players might disagree that's obvious.

If you think I play Elite: Dangerous for "emergent gameplay" and social interactions, you couldn't be farther from the truth. That's just one CMDR though, so who knows...

 

[bitstorm]

If you think I play Elite: Dangerous for "emergent gameplay" and social interactions, you couldn't be farther from the truth. That's just one CMDR though, so who knows...

That's beside the point.

Whether you as an individual play exclusively in solo and run out of things to do after 6 months or not is irrelevant.

That fact remains that open offers the potential for a much wider range of gameplay, it's a place where the unexpected can happen, and as a result to keep people playing for as long as possible it's surely in Frontier's best interest to encourage people into open.

 

[Jypson]

That's beside the point.

Whether you as an individual play solo and run out of things to do after 6 months or not is irrelevant.

That fact remains that open offers the potential for a much wider range of gameplay, it's a place where the unexpected can happen, and as a result to keep people playing for as long as possible it's surely in Frontier's best interest to encourage people into open.

What's beside the point? That you labeled a bunch of things that matter to you that don't matter to me? There's something for everybody in Elite, and it's not going to be the same for everybody.

 

[Bacalao]

That's beside the point.

Whether you as an individual play exclusively in solo and run out of things to do after 6 months or not is irrelevant.

That fact remains that open offers the potential for a much wider range of gameplay, it's a place where the unexpected can happen, and as a result to keep people playing for as long as possible it's surely in Frontier's best interest to encourage people into open.

I disagree, "the unexpected" is entirely distasteful to a lot of players and adds nothing to their gameplay. Hence the population of solo. There are some players that need that kind of action, but in the end it all becomes stale anyway, soon the unexpected is just the baseline and players of that nature are fickle, they'll move on to whatever next, shinier thing flashes in front of their eyes.

I think open gives staying power appeal to players who like and feed off of player-player interaction, but I think that has very little to do with the "unexpected" and much more to do with just feeling social. It goes down to how they work as a person, "why they play" rather than what the mode offers.