I do hope Season 2 helps Piracy - Today's experience just confirms to me it doesn't work very well...

[Derath]

I can vouch for the fact that communicating and not firing on traders yields vastly higher piracy returns than doing so, whether the game should be this way I can't say.

This is one of the areas where pirates came off worse off from a QoL change for the rest of the game though, repair costs used to be such that it was all the leverage you needed. T9/Python/Conda would cost more to repair 10% hull than whatever the pirate requested for cargo so doing mild damage was always the leverage mechanism to get what you wanted.

Can't do that anymore though, i'm hoping they didn't neglect piracy in the 2.1 modules and we get some stuff thats genuinely quite gimp but useful for the few pirates cruising around.

 

[Daffan]

15 seconds works because its about the same time as someone needs to high wake out. If you can't kill the target who is waiting for the exit timer in 15 seconds, you're not going to get them high waking out either.

I am also a firm supporter that High wake is overpowered garbage.

Because it makes Mass lock irrelevant, requires no skill and is almost impossible to catch (You can log out before someone even scans your wake)

And as other have said, you can tell when someone is trying to high wake - You cant tell when someone is secretly logging off while you are typing or doing something to interact with them.

Check out this pro PVP footage. 15 second logout and then jump to solo mid pvp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWoC1x8hjZ0

 

[NeilF]

15 seconds works because its about the same time as someone needs to high wake out. If you can't kill the target who is waiting for the exit timer in 15 seconds, you're not going to get them high waking out either.

I am also a firm supporter that High wake is overpowered garbage.

Because it makes Mass lock irrelevant, requires no skill and is almost impossible to catch (You can log out before someone even scans your wake)

Hang on... Only just catching onto this...

So if you hyperspace out to a neighbouring system (rather than re-entering super cruise), are you saying mass lock no longer plays a role?

 

[anikaiful]

So if you hyperspace out to a neighbouring system (rather than re-entering super cruise), are you saying mass lock no longer plays a role?

Indeed, that's the case. It's been so for who knows how long... Don't exactly remember it having been otherwise, even, at all.

 

[sewerratuk]

Hang on... Only just catching onto this...

So if you hyperspace out to a neighbouring system (rather than re-entering super cruise), are you saying mass lock no longer plays a role?

Correct, it doesn't play a role. You can High Wake in a Sidewinder 500m from a T9 without any masslock

 

[NeilF]

Correct, it doesn't play a role. You can High Wake in a Sidewinder 500m from a T9 without any masslock

So yes... Add that to the list of things that need some attention then

 

[anikaiful]

So yes... Add that to the list of things that need some attention then

And why is that?

 

[NeilF]

And why is that?

Because it seems a bit inconsistent surely?

 

[anikaiful]

Because it seems a bit inconsistent surely?

Not really seeing how, but if you say so. Not that it matters to me one way or the other (except when high-waking from "pirates" while flying taxi-winder).

There's bigger inconsistencies than that anyway - like how a planet locks you only for about 2 km, whereas another ship can lock you for up to 4.5 or somesuch...

 

[NeilF]

Not really seeing how, but if you say so. Not that it matters to me one way or the other (except when high-waking from "pirates" while flying taxi-winder).

There's bigger inconsistencies than that anyway - like how a planet locks you only for about 2 km, whereas another ship can lock you for up to 4.5 or somesuch...

It's an interestng dilemna isn't it!

First, surely the premise of the mechanics preventing a normal SC jump is to force you to stick with the "enemy" for a period of time, else why enforce those mechanics? This being the case why allow them to be side-stepped by jumping in a different fashion...

HOWEVER, if you're trying to get to a specific station in a system, obviously hyperspacing away to a different system isn't going to help you.... You'll have to jump back and risk interdiction again.



Personally, at first glance, to me it seems that hyperspacing should befall the same sort of mass locking as supercruising...

 

[Daffan]

It's an interestng dilemna isn't it!

First, surely the premise of the mechanics preventing a normal SC jump is to force you to stick with the "enemy" for a period of time, else why enforce those mechanics? This being the case why allow them to be side-stepped by jumping in a different fashion...

HOWEVER, if you're trying to get to a specific station in a system, obviously hyperspacing away to a different system isn't going to help you.... You'll have to jump back and risk interdiction again.



Personally, at first glance, to me it seems that hyperspacing should befall the same sort of mass locking as supercruising...

It is probably a massive oversight because the devs never did PVP and never realized. That, or they don't care and like horrible mechanics.

Basically, you high wake away, drop to solo play and gg.

 

[anikaiful]

It is probably a massive oversight because the devs never did PVP and never realized. That, or they don't care and like horrible mechanics.

Basically, you high wake away, drop to solo play and gg.

One can view it differently too though, it's the last safety net for a slow/weak trading ship to survive "pirate encounter" without being blown out of the skies (I believe in actual pirates about as much as I believe in tooth fairies). Call me paranoid, but if someone interdicts me - they certainly aren't doing it for the cargo. (Not my fault when the interdictor themselves gets blown up, however, but that's besides the point).

 

[Comrade Error]

One can view it differently too though, it's the last safety net for a slow/weak trading ship to survive "pirate encounter" without being blown out of the skies (I believe in actual pirates about as much as I believe in tooth fairies). Call me paranoid, but if someone interdicts me - they certainly aren't doing it for the cargo. (Not my fault when the interdictor themselves gets blown up, however, but that's besides the point).

First of, I'm very much real.

[video=youtube;ljO5yNhmde4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljO5yNhmde4[/video]

and nobody is forcing anyone to fly a slow and weak trade ship.

 

[anikaiful]

and nobody is forcing anyone to fly a slow and weak trade ship.

True, but for some odd reason many do fly such the far I've noted from various forum posts over time.

 

[NeilF]

One can view it differently too though, it's the last safety net for a slow/weak trading ship to survive "pirate encounter" without being blown out of the skies (I believe in actual pirates about as much as I believe in tooth fairies). Call me paranoid, but if someone interdicts me - they certainly aren't doing it for the cargo. (Not my fault when the interdictor themselves gets blown up, however, but that's besides the point).

But there you have another issue... The problem that a pirate encounter almost automatically means the worry of "being blown out of the skies"...

I've tried some piracy over the past few weeks, both as a solo pirate and in a group (with other pirates I've met)...

What I've noticed is how trigger happy some pirates are (as least the ones I saw). The slightest reason (excuse) they will blow up their victims. And to me this is clearly part of the problem. Victims feel they can be blown up all to easily without enough penalty to the pirate, so the whole interdiction mechancis are on a knife edge because of that.

I noticed when I interdicted traders etc (as a solo pirate), as a rule I went out of my way not to blow them up. If they paid up just by theat fine. If they fled, I'd re-interdict, warn again, take cargo by force, or damage them, warn them again, until they did pay. As a rule this seemed effective and "enjoyable", and fair (as piracy can be).

 

[Comrade Error]

I noticed when I interdicted traders etc (as a solo pirate), as a rule I went out of my way not to blow them up. If they paid up just by theat fine. If they fled, I'd re-interdict, warn again, take cargo by force, or damage them, warn them again, until they did pay. As a rule this seemed effective and "enjoyable", and fair (as piracy can be).

On Xbox if you do that they will do one of two things. 1. Log after the second of third interdiction 2. Keep running possibly hi-wake and then there is a big chance on the smaller yet faster ships that they will get blown up before their drives stop.

Only met a handful people who stopped after getting some major hull damage or re-interdicted with further warnings.

 

[NeilF]

On Xbox if you do that they will do one of two things. 1. Log after the second of third interdiction 2. Keep running possibly hi-wake and then there is a big chance on the smaller yet faster ships that they will get blown up before their drives stop.

Only met a handful people who stopped after getting some major hull damage or re-interdicted with further warnings.

I had a brilliant encounter a couple of weeks back...

I interdicted a trader, going through an interdiction battle which must have gone on for a minute or two. My hand was aching by the end of it... But I won. I then gave my terms but he made a break for it. I took his shields down, gave my terms again, but ultimately he then jumped. I interdicted him again, resulting in another hand aching interdiction battle. I gave my terms again, and he made another run for it. This time I quickly (but carefully) took his shields down and then applied hatch breakers while he was running...

HOWEVER, then two other CMDRs turned up, so my attention was immediately taken away from "my victim"... to the extent I ultimately had to visit Mr Rebuy Screen - If only I'd paid enough attention to the fact I didn't have 4 pips to ENG a little sooner! I was literally seconds away from jumping to safety when finally... boooooooom!


Over the course of my trying Piracy I had a surprisingly low number of combat loggers IMHO. But then maybe that was because I was fairly careful about always giving terms, and firing as a last resort. I suspect some of the "victims" who finally stopped and handed over cargo after a couple of interdictions - and then only after being given some hull damage followed by further threats - most likely would simply have been blown up by other pirates... Which is counter productive gameplay IMHO. Hence me still believing the game needs to promote the steeling of cargo, and penalise the destruction of CMDRs.

 

[Comrade Error]

I had a brilliant encounter a couple of weeks back...

I interdicted a trader, going through an interdiction battle which must have gone on for a minute or two. My hand was aching by the end of it... But I won. I then gave my terms but he made a break for it. I took his shields down, gave my terms again, but ultimately he then jumped. I interdicted him again, resulting in another hand aching interdiction battle. I gave my terms again, and he made another run for it. This time I quickly (but carefully) took his shields down and then applied hatch breakers while he was running...

HOWEVER, then two other CMDRs turned up, so my attention was immediately taken away from "my victim"... to the extent I ultimately had to visit Mr Rebuy Screen - If only I'd paid enough attention to the fact I didn't have 4 pips to ENG a little sooner


Over the course of my trying Piracy I had a surprisingly low number of combat loggers IMHO. But then maybe that was because I was fairly careful about always giving terms, and firing as a last resort. I suspect some of the "victims" who finally stopped and handed over cargo after a couple of interdictions - and then only after being given some hull damage followed by further threats - most likely would simply have been blown up by other pirates... Which is counter productive gameplay IMHO. Hence me still believing the game needs to promote the steeling of cargo, and penalise the destruction of CMDRs.

I'm just gonna make the assumption and say PC players are more inteligent than Xbox players because I can fly about say my demands 5-10 times and they won't stop and when I start shooting they log. Starting to wish I just got a PC.

 

[NeilF]

I'm just gonna make the assumption and say PC players are more inteligent than Xbox players because I can fly about say my demands 5-10 times and they won't stop and when I start shooting they log. Starting to wish I just got a PC.

Well, either way, IMHO, there's a number of things FD can do to tighten up Piracy, such that combat logging isn't "required", and then to combat logging, so it's not so "appealing"...

 

[Derath]

Combat loggings only "required" if your lazy or vs a wing with the possible exception of pirates in clippers, .......... Unless your in a T7! I salute all T7's for flying at high speed towards the grave, truly they are the bravest souls in the galaxy