The unavoidable poll: PvP vs PvE!

[Nevarlan]

Well, that's a fair point.

I suppose the aim should be to get as many people in to open as possible (to make the universe feel alive, as you rightly say) - but also to allow people's personal choices and playstyles to co-exist alongside everyone elses'.

That is that difficult part

In addition to a toggle, FD could allow players to hire NPCs as wingmates in order to give incentives for players to switch the PvP toggle on (make things exciting). What's more, there could be rewards for players who survive player attacks and successfully report it at a station (deliver data about the PvP players/pirates, yet another incentive).

 

[VR Murgle]

Not that difficult really I'm perfectly fine with other players blowing each other up as long as they don't bother me...

 

[frostypaw]

This forum user-base is predominantly PvE, with discussions revolving around that and generally lesser-PvP minded. Without even looking at the results - i'm going to assume that's already being reflected on this poll.

...but why not both as an option? [wink]

I think that's a little unfair.

Personally I can't vote in this - it's oversimplified and I don't think the result will be fair and can easily be misconstrued like I think you have here and is often repeated across the forum.

If instead you asked "Do you object to player vs player action where it fits into the story and galaxy of Elite?" I reckon the answer would be resoundingly YES.

The problem many have with the PvP action isn't the PvP action but how it's carried out. There's no understandable game logic to their actions and for those wanting to be properly involved in the game's environment that's immersion ruining and forces them into shoot-em-up mode, and often with such a high bar to entry that many other roles are compromised to try and handle the actions of relatively few pilots.

If the seal clubbing stopped you'd probably see many more people happy to engage in open and not running in terror from PvP action, but for the moment and asked like this then yes the poll's result is easily predictable. As usual communities need to some extent to police themselves.

 

[Nerwan]

Often PVEers have a very narrow view of what people do in PVP which is a shame. I suspect, for many, their only experience of it is getting ganked in a T7 early on in the game and then assuming that's all there is to it. I think at some point I'll have to make a "common misconceptions about PVP" thread (prepare yourselves mods ;-)) I also think that a great deal more people could enjoy PVP if they knew what was involved. Some never try PVP but some try it and get frustrated. Playing against players has a high learning curve because there's no progression, you're going to be facing well practiced people straight away and that can be intimidating. It's a lot like if you take up a sport like table tennis and then go along to a club, at first you're going to get your ass handed to you by almost everyone there. However, if you stick with it, PVP is an incredibly rewarding thing to do in ED and it's not all about "chest thumping" ;-) You meet some surprisingly humble, incredibly knowledgeable and extremely competent pilots, and you can learn a lot from them.

 

[Kicks]

Not that difficult really I'm perfectly fine with other players blowing each other up as long as they don't bother me...

"When they came for the traders, I did not speak up - for I was not a trader."
....

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

From my point of view it's not a question about which is more important, it's about actually listening to other peoples views and not just belittling them because you don't agree with them. Play the game the way you want but have a little bit of respect for folk that want to play in a different way.

I totally agree ...... But, (and I am going to try to look from the other side of the fence here, the side I actually do NOT agree with - if I get it wrong feel free to correct)

but the big problem as I understand it, is, this works for the coop PvE players and the solo players as we just go into solo and private group. those players not not NEED other players to act as their fodder because they do not need fodder.

the PvPers however do, and there in lies the problem i guess... if all PvEers play it their way, then the PvPers have no players to pirate or to bounty hunt or to blow up for "reasons". I do not have the numbers to confirm, but, it would seem listening to the complaints due to the size of the game (a good thing in my book) there are not enough PvPers, or at least not enough targets for the PvPers to sustain open at the moment..... (too many wolves not enough sheep it seems to me)

---------------

My stance is, that is the game they bought, and it was made clear in the dev diaries etc it would be this way, and none of the trailers state the ships in the battles shown are other humans, but to be fair, from the marketing, it IS inferred somewhat..

whilst i will always be a PvEer and with no interest in PvP or playing in a PvP mode - unless radical changes are made to the lobsided risk / reward that is there now - I guess I can understand why the PvPers are desperately trying to herd us into 1 mode. :/

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Didn't vote, poll succsesful avoided!

 

[Arubeto]

I always thought CQC was a great little toy for people enjoying PvP. It's much closer to being "balanced" than the main game with all it's different ship sizes and classes, you will never be accused of being a griefer, losing your ship doesn't mean you lose everything, and it very, very much rewards skill (more so than in the main game where a combat ship killing a explorer or trader doesn't require so much skill).

I honestly wonder: why isn't CQC more embraced by people who want to enjoy some serious PvP action? I enjoy it very, very much, and I don't even consider myself as a PvP player in the main game...

 

[Kicks]

I honestly wonder: why isn't CQC more embraced by people who want to enjoy some serious PvP action? I enjoy it very, very much, and I don't even consider myself as a PvP player in the main game...

Because those who genuinely just want to "blow others to smithereens" (Not talking about player-pirates here), are not interested in competitive combat. They're interested in making someone elses' day a misery.

 

[Nerwan]

I always thought CQC was a great little toy for people enjoying PvP. It's much closer to being "balanced" than the main game with all it's different ship sizes and classes, you will never be accused of being a griefer, losing your ship doesn't mean you lose everything, and it very, very much rewards skill (more so than in the main game where a combat ship killing a explorer or trader doesn't require so much skill).

I honestly wonder: why isn't CQC more embraced by people who want to enjoy some serious PvP action? I enjoy it very, very much, and I don't even consider myself as a PvP player in the main game...

Some PVPers are weirdly sniffy about CQC but I think it's great... when I can get a game. I played up to rank 25 but then got frustrated always waiting for the match-making and having to do it at certain times of day etc.. At least in the main game if the PVP goes quiet you can just seemlessly switch into doing other stuff... Also messing with loadouts is more fun in the main game and it's easier to fight as groups etc, and playing as part of a player group defending a system from other player groups is just more fun because of the sense of territory and risk.

 

[DocPossible]

E v E

Why are there no EvE threads? There could be a whole chunk of the community out there that never gets a mention, never gets it's voice heard. All this 'P' nonsense. You're all a bunch of self centred, egomaniacs*.



*This may, or may not be a compliment.

 

[Zeta Legion]

I always thought CQC was a great little toy for people enjoying PvP. It's much closer to being "balanced" than the main game with all it's different ship sizes and classes, you will never be accused of being a griefer, losing your ship doesn't mean you lose everything, and it very, very much rewards skill (more so than in the main game where a combat ship killing a explorer or trader doesn't require so much skill).

I honestly wonder: why isn't CQC more embraced by people who want to enjoy some serious PvP action? I enjoy it very, very much, and I don't even consider myself as a PvP player in the main game...

Possibly because CQC doesn't mimic the PvP in the 'main' game very well; ships in CQC are much more fragile, fixed weapons have more auto-aim, and well, there are a few choices. I guess once you consider most PvP players will simply run whatever the meta declares to be FOTM you don't really end up with any more variety though.

 

[BL1P]

PvE is my vote until FD bring out or Use an anti cheat system and enforce bans stronger than a slap on the wrist for 72hrs.

 

[VR Murgle]

"When they came for the traders, I did not speak up - for I was not a trader."
....

Think you're missing the point here, I am a tradeh..PvEer (I'm both actually) and I do speak up...

 

[Arubeto]

Possibly because CQC doesn't mimic the PvP in the 'main' game very well; ships in CQC are much more fragile, fixed weapons have more auto-aim, and well, there are a few choices. I guess once you consider most PvP players will simply run whatever the meta declares to be FOTM you don't really end up with any more variety though.

Maybe it feels different than combat in the main game, but for good reason, IMHO. I have had my fair share of combat in the main game - normally in CZ or Res sites, but occasionally against other players, too - and I think the fighting in CQC is much more exciting and exhilarating. After playing CQC enough to reach the rank of "champion", returning to combat in the main game feels slow and sluggish, mainly depending on ship loadouts - hence all the complaining about overpowered modifications in "The Engineers" - and not at all on skill. Wouldn't PvP interested people be more interested in testing their skill than just showing of their modules?

 

[Kicks]

Think you're missing the point here, I am a tradeh..PvEer (I'm both actually) and I do speak up...

I knew I'd get the profession wrong...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Again folks, just a reminder, we have Hotel California for the never-ending circular and ultimately futile open v solo debate

It's clear you're an accountant and not a advertiser.

With regard to the topic, David wanted PvP to be rare and meaningful. And I believe he's halfway there

 

[Sandmann]

I don't think a case is proven until it is disproved, since anyone and everyone can make random claims that automatically fulfill themselves until it is challenged

You are exactly right here. As you mentioned earlier mathematics (and I'll asume statistics in particular) is not your strong point so it's only fair that I explain. In statistics it's assumed that any sample randomly drawn from a population is representative, until a claim to the contrary is made and supporting evidence is supplied.

So, we have a sample size that is far in excess of that required for 99% reliability (something else of which you may not be aware is that the vast majority of polls strive only for 95%. If we went with that less conservative figure the argument would be even stronger), a reliably repeating result across a large number of polls over several years, and no reason to think that the sample is NOT representative of the population. The statistics clearly support the notion that PvE-ers outnumber PvPers in the game context by a degree of 2 to 3 times.

Your claim has often been that the sample is NOT representative (in fact I even questioned the relative representative degrees of the forum vs reddit... to which you ascribed all sorts of actions that weren't reflected in reality). If you still believe that to be the case I'd be very interested to see your evidence, and I'm sure that as an up and coming lawyer you're familiar with the difference between evidence and assertion.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If FD ever makes ED a game that has balanced PvP, i might be interested in it... but then it wouldn't really be ED anymore i think. Until then, PvE all the way. For my PvP kicks ill play TF2 or CQC.

 

[VR Murgle]

You are exactly right here. As you mentioned earlier mathematics (and I'll asume statistics in particular) is not your strong point so it's only fair that I explain. In statistics it's assumed that any sample randomly drawn from a population is representative, until a claim to the contrary is made and supporting evidence is supplied.

So, we have a sample size that is far in excess of that required for 99% reliability (something else of which you may not be aware is that the vast majority of polls strive only for 95%. If we went with that less conservative figure the argument would be even stronger), a reliably repeating result across a large number of polls over several years, and no reason to think that the sample is NOT representative of the population. The statistics clearly support the notion that PvE-ers outnumber PvPers in the game context by a degree of 2 to 3 times.

Your claim has often been that the sample is NOT representative (in fact I even questioned the relative representative degrees of the forum vs reddit... to which you ascribed all sorts of actions that weren't reflected in reality). If you still believe that to be the case I'd be very interested to see your evidence, and I'm sure that as an up and coming lawyer you're familiar with the difference between evidence and assertion.

I think we can safely say that this forum is NOT representative of the community as a whole because lets face it if the results of this poll were correct there would be an outcry here about the sad state of PvP in open and there haven't been any complaints so there...