I'm concerned – the direction of the game.

[Adept]

If you are a trader and get attacked by a pirate, then its non-consensual regardless of whether the pirate is a player of an npc.

Moreover, if you are a trader I think you would never want to be attacked by a pirate.

I disagree with both of these points.

I want the experience of taking the dangerous trade route off the coast of Somalia for higher profit. I'll be flying either a well equipped "armed merchantman" like a well tooled up Cobra mk 3, or hiring a couple of escorts if I'm flying the classic fat mechantman. I want to make it through the trade run, but it doesn't mean I don't welcome the danger and the challenge.

I think you're simplifying this a little too much. I doubt the "traders" as a general group want to just fly between trade hubs with nothing ever happening. They just don't want the whole thing to turn into a frustrating and demotivating series of getting robbed time and again. Danger and opportunity in the right mix is the key.

 

[CMDR Texas Stu]

If AI pilots (NPC Traders, Pirates & Bounty Hunters) are of mixed capabilities it will be difficult to discern PC from NPC.
I suspect NPCs to actually be more aggressive but that could be varied as well. If NPCs have the full range of rankings and respond to interaction unpredictably the differences will be hard to tell.
I'm hoping in some cases the NPC is so difficult it virtually requires assistance from another player (or wingman AI) to take him out.
Hopefully there will be player interaction and players with good reason to squawk-ident.
Whatever role you play I suspect there will be some interaction with other players but I would expect it more rarely than frequently the further from 'starting worlds' you travel. And that's how it should be, shouldn't it?

 

[Susimetsa]

imagine if you will , in the extreme, not being able to identify a player from an NPC, a player being able to hide their status as a real person from the entire game or having to scan every single NPC to establish who is a player and who is not.

Why should NPCs be different from player characters? Would that not be rather un-immersive if there's no in-game reason to single them out?

 

[Herik]

That sounds absolutely brilliant, and I dearly hope they make the game work like that. It willl make the immersion that much greater, and will go a long way to getting the game working like David has advertised his goals for it to be.

Yes Adept! would love to see it.

 

[Dante80]

That's not a problem at all...

Ok..we are getting off topic, but riddle me this.

A big famine happens to a planet. Traders scramble to nearby agricultural systems to get food for cheap, pirates scramble around the planets' station to intercept fat merchantmen, steal their cargo and sell it for a nice profit, and bounty hunters gather at the other side of the planet, ready to scramble and pick off pirates and other criminals. Smugglers get ready to jump into system with canisters full of dead slaves to sell at the black market as "mutton" and fortune seekers and ninja salvagers sit in the fringes of the system, ready to scoop in and salvage from the ensuing carnage.

This results in an immersive, FD generated but player enhanced spike of activity with extreme levels of player interaction and content generation.

The first trader that can get to the station will reap the most rewards, and as urgent demand is procedurally met prices go down. All players affect the universe, and all players can profit from the opportunity.

You get into your trusty Panther Clipper, fill the holds with precious fruits, vegetables, meat and wheat and then set off for the nearby system.

Before you HS, you check your fuel levels, set all power to the engine and then...turn right into your cockpit where the cheat panel is and press the DELETE ALL PLAYERS FROM UNIVERSE LOL button.

After a successful HS jump and a brief confrontation with a lowly NPC pirate sporting a magenta laser pen, you dock to the station at hand and sell off your merchandise for extreme profit. Your goods bring the price down for all other players in the universe, diminishing their rewards while your risk is 0.

Do you understand the sheer amount of meta balance problems a mechanic like this brings to the table? Again, its one universe, what you do affects everyone.

 

[[VR] Shadowman]

Why not have an option for differentiating PCs/NPCs - yes/no. All the 'no' folks can live happily in their world, not knowing who is who and all the yes folks can do the same, clearly identifying each ship. Except... the 'no' folks want the 'yes' folks to not have that option, is that right?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

After a successful HS jump and an brief confrontation with a lowly NPC pirate sporting a laser pen, you dock to the station at hand and sell off your merchandise for extreme profit. Your goods bring the price down for all other players in the universe, diminishing their rewards while your risk is 0.

If the game was that unstable that a single player in a large trader ship could influence the market by that much I would say the market algorithms are too sensitive.

You're also presuming that NPCs are armed with a "laser pen" and are easy pickings ... you're in a clipper remember - agility is not on your side

 

[Adept]

Basically, in solo player mode I won't have to wonder who is who, and this is preferable. Obviously my first choice is just to have it so we know who is what. Opt-in/out mechanism is a distant 3rd place.

Hope that answers your question. :smilie:

It does. Thanks

Sounds like you prefer the devil you know. You're right. We differ in our perspectives in this.

 

[Yaffle]

Why not have an option for differentiating PCs/NPCs - yes/no. All the 'no' folks can live happily in their world, not knowing who is who and all the yes folks can do the same, clearly identifying each ship. Except... the 'no' folks want the 'yes' folks to not have that option, is that right?

Yep, hence an idea of a mutual opt-in idea.

Personally I find it more interesting not to know for all the reasons stated above, it makes it more interesting to me and I think a better game.

 

[Adept]

Why can't (aren't?) NPC's be part of the Elite Federation of Pilots?

Curious, as I can see that crops up in a few posts.

I hope some will be. Currently it's just a hand-wave to why our characters are such special snowflakes (higher bounties for killing us and all that), and why we have the CMDR before our names.

Its not just about PvP. As I mentioned previously if I see a player being attacked I might come to their aid and a new friendship is formed. If all I see is NPCs I'm not going to be motivated to do any of that. Its not like I can form a friendship with the AI.

You can actually. Your interaction with the NPC can bump them into tier 2, and you can make a long term ally from them.

 

[popuptoaster]

Ok riddle me this.

A big famine happens to a planet. Traders scramble to nearby agricultural systems to get food for cheap, pirates scramble around the planets' station to intercept fat merchantmen, steal their cargo and sell it for a nice profit, and bounty hunters gather at the other side of the planet, ready to scramble and pick off pirates and other criminals. Smugglers get ready to jump into system with canisters full of dead slaves to sell at the black market and fortune seekers and ninja salvagers sit in the fringes of the system, ready to scoop in and salvage from the ensuing carnage.

This results in an immersive, FD generated but player enhanced spike of activity with extreme levels of player interaction and content generation.

The first trader that can get to the station will reap the most rewards, and as urgent demand is procedurally met prices go down. All players affect the universe, and all players can profit from the opportunity.

You get into your trusty Panther Clipper, fill the holds with precious fruits, vegetables, meat and wheat and then set off for the nearby system.

Before you HS, you turn right into your cockpit where the cheat panel is and press the DELETE ALL PLAYERS FROM UNIVERSE LOL button.

After a successful HS jump and an brief confrontation with a lowly NPC pirate sporting a laser pen, you dock to the station at hand and sell off your merchandise for extreme profit. Your goods bring the price down for all other players in the universe, diminishing their rewards while your risk is 0.

Do you understand the sheer amount of meta balance problems a mechanic like this brings to the table? Again, its one universe, what you do affects everyone.

You are assuming NPC pirates will not be as dangerous as player pirates and without seeing a fully tooled up ship flown by an NPC with its AI working correctly then the whole argument falls apart.

For all we know it might be safer with LESS NPCs flying around and more players in control.

 

[CMDR Texas Stu]

You are assuming NPC pirates will not be as dangerous as player pirates and without seeing a fully tooled up ship flown by an NPC with its AI working correctly then the whole argument falls apart.

For all we know it might be safer with LESS NPCs flying around and more players in control.

This is my thought as well

 

[Dante80]

You are assuming NPC pirates will not be as dangerous as player pirates and without seeing a fully tooled up ship flown by an NPC with its AI working correctly then the whole argument falls apart.

For all we know it might be safer with LESS NPCs flying around and more players in control.

This is a non issue. If NPCs are deadlier than other players, why would you be afraid to join the non DELETE ALL PLAYERS FROM THE UNIVERSE LOL mode?

Also, if NPCs are deadlier than other players, why do other players have to FACE THEM AND PCs while you don't?

Lastly, if one cargo haul is not enough to change the price, why not 100 using the same tactic?
And if 100 cannot change the price, why do you think that players could affect the price in the first place?

Guys, these really are some questions for thought.

 

[Gibbonici]

This is a non issue. If NPCs are deadlier than other players, why would you be afraid to join the non DELETE ALL PLAYERS FROM THE UNIVERSE LOL mode?

Also, if NPCs are deadlier than other players, why do other players have to FACE THEM AND PCs while you don't?

No one's saying they'll be deadlier than other players. They are just disagreeing with your assumption that they will be the ED equivalent of grey trash mobs.

 

[Dante80]

No one's saying they'll be deadlier than other players. They are just disagreeing with your assumption that they will be the ED equivalent of grey trash mobs.

And I am correctly answering that this is a non issue. Its the imbalance between the two modes I am talking about (1 vs 1+2 regarding risk/reward), not whether one mode is challenging by itself (1).

 

[Rog]

Why not have an option for differentiating PCs/NPCs - yes/no. All the 'no' folks can live happily in their world, not knowing who is who and all the yes folks can do the same, clearly identifying each ship. Except... the 'no' folks want the 'yes' folks to not have that option, is that right?

Or is it the players who want easy identification want it forced on those that don't?

It'd be a real shame to further split/dilute the player base.

 

[technome]

*snip*

I look at many of the comments here and I am genuinely baffled by the response when we are talking about a game that is supposed to be a mutli-player game.

I read your original post and the whole thread and I've been tempted to post before but it's all moving so rapidly. Perhaps you'd be less baffled if you tried to understand how others view the nature of the game. I'll try to explain my position.

The way I see it, trying to pigeon-hole Elite: Dangerous simply as "a multi-player game" is part of the problem. The game's much bigger than that, as far as I'm concerned. I see it first and foremost as a persistent game-universe where everyone is playing their own personal game, with their own goals and aims, but simultaneously with thousands of others. Do you see the difference? Multi-player interactions will arise between members of the "All" group as a matter of course but these interactions are only a tiny part of the game for a lot of people.

I want to interact primarily with "the game". It's not that I don't want to interact with other players. It's that I only want to interact with them as part of the game. That's a major part of Elite: Dangerous's appeal for me and the ability for players to easily cut through the structure of the game, exposing which players were human would seriously damage this. I would strongly object to anyone being able to use any method (except their own intuition) to single me out from the rest of the game as being a human player.

 

[Stoo]

This will go round and round and round

 

[Theaghan Black]

Maybe in reality this DELETE ALL PLAYERS FROM THE UNIVERSE does not exist.

Imagine if FD is simply going to rename the PCs with random names...

Seriously, that's a matter that bother me too.

 

[Dante80]

Maybe in reality this DELETE ALL PLAYERS FROM THE UNIVERSE does not exist.

Imagine if FD is simply going to rename the PCs with random names...

Now that would be hilarious...