Discuss the AI here!
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verminstar
Banned
Have to agree unfortunately. The general attitude appeared to newcomer friendly up until this update went live yesterday...now it seems that if ye complain about it being too hard, yer jumped on and belittled and called a noob...seems this game is not as newcomer friendly as I had first imagined. All I'm seeing now are elitist gaming snobs and I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the effort staying...game is currently damned near unplayable now (
Not really. Anyone starting tomorrow simply starts with the bar slightly ajusted upwards. They learn, adapt, improve, gain rank and then absolutely wipe the floor of all the old timers who had weak AI to contend with, learned bad habits, and hated change.
Pretty sure that's what's going to happen.
I can see a huge rift dividing players now.
Those that chest thump for the new AI difficulty, and those that have concerns of overzealous tuning.
Whilst I need to do some testing myself, I'm going on what I have read so far here. My ultimate opinion will be based on two close friends that I got to join a few weeks ago. If they love the new AI, then I'll be happy. If they don't like it and focus on other games and leave me lonesome, then I'll be a very sad bunny.
From what I have read, the most concerning factor isn't the actual AI difficulty, but the risk vs reward ratio..
Those that chest thump for the new AI difficulty, and those that have concerns of overzealous tuning.
Whilst I need to do some testing myself, I'm going on what I have read so far here. My ultimate opinion will be based on two close friends that I got to join a few weeks ago. If they love the new AI, then I'll be happy. If they don't like it and focus on other games and leave me lonesome, then I'll be a very sad bunny.
From what I have read, the most concerning factor isn't the actual AI difficulty, but the risk vs reward ratio..
Agree, the solution is to crank up the bounty, NOT nerf the AI. If the bounty is high there is also a reward to have a longer combat time (TTK).
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So where exactly is the game "teaching" better combat skills, genius? All I know is I can't even see the enemies as they stay behind me and blast me to oblivion. You have NO idea what starting out like this is. It is utterly impossible to fight anything. If I were to have just bought the game and experienced this, I would have IMMEDIATELY returned it via Steam for a refund. There is no chance for new players like me with the difficulty this high. There is no 'learning' on the new AI, there is only dying. How can I practice and get better when I can't last fifteen seconds against an Eagle with my Cobra mk III?
Sure, in your selfish arrogance you can thumb you nose and say I don't know what I'm doing, and you're right, that's why I'm NEW at the game, because I don't know what I'm #$^$in' DOING. We can't all be amazing geniuses like you.
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After doing some testing at a Nav Beacon and in a RES Site i dont know what to think. I didnt have much trouble with the new AI, but i always used Turrets on my ships and the 4 Medium Pulse Turrets on the Cutter keep enemies pretty reliable at bay.
They do more damage thou now, had to use a SCB (i use 8A Shields and a 8A SCB on the Cutter) when fighting an Adder and Eagle (both Ranked Deadly i think). But the Cutter struggled with small ships before, so for me atm it feels like the AI is just more annoying. But as i never realy liked combat in the game (dont like the limited sensor range nor that it does not use radar, lidar, etc to track targets and only relies on heat + i think the weapon ranges are a joke, projectiles dont vanish in space, they keep flying until they hit something), i have just more reason to avoid it. And a A-Rated Cutter with Class 8A Shields, 4 A-Rated Shield Boosters, 2 Point Defence Turrets and 2 Heat Sinks to allow me to use the 8A SCB is as good as it gets if u want to avoid fights.
http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...BhEYy6dkGYz0SIA===?bn=Multipurpose Cutter 2.1
The Class 4 Cannon is replaced by a Class 4 Multi Cannon, Coriolis simply does not have that right now, at least it is not shown to me.
In the end i dont think the new AI will bother me much. It will prolong the time i hit Combat Elite somewhat, but as i am allready Elite Trader and as such have access to Founders World i dont realy care. Fighting isnt worth the time tbh. compared to trading in a Cutter. And as long as they dont fix the Corvettes Range to at least Cutter levels i am not interessted in doing Combat. While the Cutter works, the Corvette is way more fun to fly until u try to get somewhere. And as i like to travel a lot it is simply no option to me. As it stands travel takes ages even in the Cutter and my game time is limited anyway.
They do more damage thou now, had to use a SCB (i use 8A Shields and a 8A SCB on the Cutter) when fighting an Adder and Eagle (both Ranked Deadly i think). But the Cutter struggled with small ships before, so for me atm it feels like the AI is just more annoying. But as i never realy liked combat in the game (dont like the limited sensor range nor that it does not use radar, lidar, etc to track targets and only relies on heat + i think the weapon ranges are a joke, projectiles dont vanish in space, they keep flying until they hit something), i have just more reason to avoid it. And a A-Rated Cutter with Class 8A Shields, 4 A-Rated Shield Boosters, 2 Point Defence Turrets and 2 Heat Sinks to allow me to use the 8A SCB is as good as it gets if u want to avoid fights.
http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...BhEYy6dkGYz0SIA===?bn=Multipurpose Cutter 2.1
The Class 4 Cannon is replaced by a Class 4 Multi Cannon, Coriolis simply does not have that right now, at least it is not shown to me.
In the end i dont think the new AI will bother me much. It will prolong the time i hit Combat Elite somewhat, but as i am allready Elite Trader and as such have access to Founders World i dont realy care. Fighting isnt worth the time tbh. compared to trading in a Cutter. And as long as they dont fix the Corvettes Range to at least Cutter levels i am not interessted in doing Combat. While the Cutter works, the Corvette is way more fun to fly until u try to get somewhere. And as i like to travel a lot it is simply no option to me. As it stands travel takes ages even in the Cutter and my game time is limited anyway.
Absolutely agree. However that leaves AI more competent and based on responses it's hard to tell of the problem is the risk versus reward, or just hating change because it's change. Little from column a, little from column b, perhaps.
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After downloading and admiring the new UI and Engineers I had only 1 hour left before bedtime last night. So I took my FAS (still in 2.0 PvE loadout) and went to a LOW a HIGH and a HAZ RES. My first impression:
- NPCs clearly are a lot better than in 2.0 but not life threatening when 1v1 (new: they did a lot of damage to my weapons, my 3B AFMU (4300 units) was empty towards the end),
- 2v1 is hard even against small ships, run when 3v1 and up!,
- I kept getting into jousting matches with small and fast NPCs (I don't like jousting but maybe it's avoidable if I change tactics against them),
- none of the NPCs tried to run (maybe because a FAS is too fast so running would get them killed quickly?),
- only in HAZ RES approx. 1 in 5 NPCs had modded weapons (mostly impulse and heat, no OP effects so far),
- I'm Elite but I got only a handful of Deadly+ ranked NPCs most were Dangerous (1 hour is too short for conclusions),
- security vessels dominate in LOW and HIGH RES (I got crowded out sometimes, downside: it makes kill stealing very easy),
- missiles really hurt when shields are down! (I have to rethink my loadout and certainly need a Point Defense unit),
- a destroyed NPC spills a lot of materials (I scooped up quite a lot of stuff and that's a nice break between the fighting),
- bottom line: damage: 17,000cr, bounties: 1,200,000 cr, so no complaints there
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So far I'm very happy with the new challenges in combat, in tinkering with loadouts and in thinking out which Engineer I need to visit first (and what stuff I need to collect for him/her). Good job Frontier!
.
-edit: Well I went to bed later than I wanted so maybe I spent closer to 2 hours in the RESs.
- NPCs clearly are a lot better than in 2.0 but not life threatening when 1v1 (new: they did a lot of damage to my weapons, my 3B AFMU (4300 units) was empty towards the end),
- 2v1 is hard even against small ships, run when 3v1 and up!,
- I kept getting into jousting matches with small and fast NPCs (I don't like jousting but maybe it's avoidable if I change tactics against them),
- none of the NPCs tried to run (maybe because a FAS is too fast so running would get them killed quickly?),
- only in HAZ RES approx. 1 in 5 NPCs had modded weapons (mostly impulse and heat, no OP effects so far),
- I'm Elite but I got only a handful of Deadly+ ranked NPCs most were Dangerous (1 hour is too short for conclusions),
- security vessels dominate in LOW and HIGH RES (I got crowded out sometimes, downside: it makes kill stealing very easy),
- missiles really hurt when shields are down! (I have to rethink my loadout and certainly need a Point Defense unit),
- a destroyed NPC spills a lot of materials (I scooped up quite a lot of stuff and that's a nice break between the fighting),
- bottom line: damage: 17,000cr, bounties: 1,200,000 cr, so no complaints there
.
So far I'm very happy with the new challenges in combat, in tinkering with loadouts and in thinking out which Engineer I need to visit first (and what stuff I need to collect for him/her). Good job Frontier!
.
-edit: Well I went to bed later than I wanted so maybe I spent closer to 2 hours in the RESs.
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Well, I've not done extensive play testing, but I just dropped into the Hi RES site I was at pre-patch this morning to see how things had changed.
The AI is definitely different - it seems to be quicker to respond, and the way they manoeuvre is different, but I didn't find them an untoward challenge - however I didn't find any NPCs higher rated than Dangerous. Maybe an Elite rated NPC would be a whole different ballgame. I had a Python in a turn loop, for example, and he just sat there, maintaining his turn, presenting his top to me, for a good 60+ seconds constant while I just pummelled his hull with my Vulture.
I noticed a lot more supplementary fire going on - my defence turret, etc. things were more hectic, particularly as soon as the police turned up. In a way, this was what made it easier for me... within a few minutes, the site was SWARMING with about 6 to 8 police vipers, and I was milking 250,000CR bounties off Pythons and Clippers in no time at all.
Need a bit more time on it really, I guess. Too early to say but at the moment, it seems a good improvement and not unmanageable. My opinion may change over the weekend though!
The AI is definitely different - it seems to be quicker to respond, and the way they manoeuvre is different, but I didn't find them an untoward challenge - however I didn't find any NPCs higher rated than Dangerous. Maybe an Elite rated NPC would be a whole different ballgame. I had a Python in a turn loop, for example, and he just sat there, maintaining his turn, presenting his top to me, for a good 60+ seconds constant while I just pummelled his hull with my Vulture.
I noticed a lot more supplementary fire going on - my defence turret, etc. things were more hectic, particularly as soon as the police turned up. In a way, this was what made it easier for me... within a few minutes, the site was SWARMING with about 6 to 8 police vipers, and I was milking 250,000CR bounties off Pythons and Clippers in no time at all.
Need a bit more time on it really, I guess. Too early to say but at the moment, it seems a good improvement and not unmanageable. My opinion may change over the weekend though!
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Completely agree with that statement.
The new AI levels have actually made the game a lot more of a challenge, rather than just going out to a CZ and slaughtering AIs you now have to use your head a bit more and apply some tactics.
I didn't get much time in the Beta this time around, but I'm hoping that the danger levels (i.e., AI skill levels) vary with the security levels of the different systems.
At least they didn't say Elitist Dangerous
Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhwwwwwhhh!
I'm adding that to the list...
New AI is good, but still this is a carebear mode in a comprasition to a human player.
BGS in solo? So cool. Everyone will grind separately for common galaxy
It could be a precedense in a gamescene I have better idea - then everyone can play Frontier Elite II.
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IMHO the balance is now too far the other way. It may be fine for the veterans with powerful ships who have made millions from robigo, but now the newer players are being hammered unfairly. The not so new players who have managed to get a few mil up their sleeves are now under threat of having it whittled away in insurance payments. This will not be in the interests of ED as a whole in attracting new players who are the ones who will be funding future development of the game, they already have our money. If ED have any sense they will see that and tweak it to get the balance right.
verminstar
Banned
How droll
The difference between you and I is that I've been here less than 2 weeks...how long have you been here oh masterful one?
Not really, all that's going to happen is you'll push the 'bar' past the fun factor, and frustrations will rise, and threads will get locked over it. This thread will become a threadnaught, with folks voicing their concerns, whilst it seems, players like you (not being personal) like the way it is, but will tentatively be the aggressor to anyone finding it too much.
At the end of the day, FDEV will listen to concerns, have a meeting, and decide how to tune AI accordingly. Comments insinuating that old timers are just spoiled brats, make them suffer.... just seems a little unnecessary.
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