Discuss the AI here!

[Krieger]

Tonight I took my FAS out for a spin again (still in 2.0 PvE comfiguration). I travelled around a bit through high and low security systems, went to a Hi CZ and a Hi RES and did some courier missions (no cargo space on FAS). My findings:
- got interdicted only once by two Viper MK3s, one deadly one dangerous, they got my shields down before I killed them, a good challenge,
- security vessels jumped in less thana minute or so and helped kill the last Viper,
- in Hi CZ NPCs definitely fly sharper than before, CZ ships are better armoured so take longer to destroy, some NPCs with modded weapons (impulse, heat) no OP effrcts,
- after 15 minutes I got swarmed and had to jump out of CZ, hull down to 78%, power plant down to 71% (do NPCs target PP now? nice!),
- in Hi RES the security vessels dominated same as yesterday (mabe they should be turned down a bit?), at some point 9 of them swarmed every criminal and I had to hold my fire for fear of friendly fire incidents (and then getting swarmed myself),
- the courier missions went without a hitch (I like the new UI a lot), no interdictions.
- bottom line: total repair costs tonight 35,000 cr, bounty vouchers 1,100,000, combat bonds: 400,000.
.
My first impression from yesterday got reinforced: NPCs are definitely a lot harder to destroy, better armed and do a lot more damage sometimes with modded weapons but so far I was never overpowered by NPCs.
.
I'm very happy with the NPCs in 2.1 so far.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Because they fixed the broken AI?
Go and play Xwing or TieFighter those games were even harder

Indeed. Cheap on GOG too

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Keep in the thrusters blue zone, and use vertical thrusters in the opposite direction of where you're pitching to to help keep the nose pointing the target.

This advice isn't news to me.

 

[Privata]

That's flat-out untrue.

It's not simply resolving bugs in AI code. The spawns are different, the loadouts are more powerful and the chances of escaping a dangerous encounter vastly reduced, one way or another.

Yeah , thats a feature.
Thats how its ment to be.

If you cant fight back to an dangerous NPC thats fine , nothing wrong. run , all pips to engines and run. adapt to the situation. you can do it

What ship do you fly? because in my FDL and vulture I have yet to die in 2.1 and I have been doing nothing but combat.

 

[Ximrats]

you made one major error in assuming that peoples combat ranks wont rise over time by killing low end npcs

That's somewhat true, actually. There's a chart somewhere that details it.

As you rank up, the experience gained from lower rank NPCs diminishes and towards the higher rankings, you get nothing at all from the lowest group of ranks.

 

[verminstar]

So that's the general vibe now...live with it or leave?

Knowing the history of niche games on the internet, I have to say be damned careful what ye wish for ^^

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

When us casuals leave, and there's no money to support the game, then the game will be gone for everybody. Maybe that is what FD really wants?

I doubt that they want it, but it might well be the end result. Unfortunately.

 

[FutronBob]

I think this boils down to people thinking they have the skill of Buck Rogers while in fact they have the skill of uncle rogers. The LOW end NPCs are stupid, anyone can kill them. Why do people keep dragging out 'oh the new players are getting destroyed?' No they are not the new players run into low rank NPC which are easy. Its all the grinders that got themselves big ships thinking they can fly them that are complaining. Honestly its not that hard, now instead of endlessly hanging around Rez farming potatoes, try something else, like I dunno getting some missions to kill someone for 5-900k plus the bounty for 10-20 minutes worth of work. I have made tons of money since 2.1 went live doing just that, missions + bounties = rich person.

This. People are underestimating just how great the new mission board is. I've seen several pirate assassination missions that paid a ton, up to 2 million credits per target. And there were illegal assassinations available for over 2.5 mil.

Honestly, I never thought I would say this, but people need to let the whole RES farming mentality die out. As someone who used to enjoy RES hunting farming all the time, I never thought I'd be so happy to see it gone. For the first time in Elite, I actually felt like a real bounty hunter.

 

[askavir]

This essentially performs a skid-turn. It's fine so long as you have significant speed and acceleration advantages over your opponent. Try it on a clipper and you'll regret it.

True, the Clipper has crap vertical thrusters, but on the other hand has tremendous blue zone pitch and roll.

 

[Nagata's Reaper]

Then there's this, being attacked by an Elite FDL who one shots my Power Plant and my wingmate couldn't help because of instancing issues. #cherryontop

http://plays.tv/video/5748cbe585d6a701f7/nagata-engineers-2-1

 

[Queex]

Thats how its ment to be.

If you cant fight back to an dangerous NPC thats fine , nothing wrong. run , all pips to engines and run. adapt to the situation. you can do it

What ship do you fly? because in my FDL and vulture I have yet to die in 2.1 and I have been doing nothing but combat.

All pips to engines and run is no longer enough. If you've closed to engage, you won't get out of range in time. Python here, with C6 prismatic shields and 3 boosters. It's not even Dangerous that's the problem. A master Sidey is impossible to draw a bead on, currently.

If that was the intention all along, it was a poor design decision.

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

This. People are underestimating just how great the new mission board is. I've seen several pirate assassination missions that paid a ton, up to 2 million credits per target. And there were illegal assassinations available for over 2.5 mil.

Honestly, I never thought I would say this, but people need to let the whole RES farming mentality die out. As someone who used to enjoy RES hunting farming all the time, I never thought I'd be so happy to see it gone. For the first time in Elite, I actually felt like a real bounty hunter.

Except from what I've seen missions are still broken far more often than is tolerable. So it's RES or bust for combat pilots.

 

[Radamanthe]

If it goes like this I will have to take a sindy and start again from zero .

Now that's a great idea! That's what FD should do to make things near perfect. Reset all, the big wipe! Another reason for you all lazy players to complain: the purge. Because the current state of E: D's AI is the state that it should have been back in late 1994 when it was released.

Yeah FD, reboot that community as it has hanged endlessly (because of your late tweakings after all). Lazyness for the lack of decent AIs. You basically breeded lazy players. Note that I don't really blame you for that: 99% of modern game devs do that. But you can change this now, you can be different. You fear being lynched by the community? Just pretend anything, like your database has been hacked by a suddenly emerging deep learning AIs from your procedural algorithms. It's Skynet, we must reset! I don't care, but do it. Be God once and for all, reboot your universe. Make them pity humans feel your wrath! Let the Elite legend shine again! Let the holy rank be deserved as it was back in the 80's! As of now, it only means one thing to me: a player who enjoyed lazy pew-pew for far too long. Period.

P.S.: There are less radical alternatives here: mount a second server instance. Then we have one server for the pew-pew community, and another one for the Elite community. I suck at this game, but I'll only play and suffer on the latter, promess. Is it a money problem? Then I'll pay for this, and I'm sure I'm not the only one willing to pay to regain the wonderful Elite experience.

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

Then there's this, being attacked by an Elite FDL who one shots my Power Plant and my wingmate couldn't help because of instancing issues. #cherryontop

http://plays.tv/video/5748cbe585d6a701f7/nagata-engineers-2-1

Not sure what I was supposed to see, but all I get is some aimless flying for 38 seconds with no shots fired... :S

 

[Privata]

All pips to engines and run is no longer enough. If you've closed to engage, you won't get out of range in time. Python here, with C6 prismatic shields and 3 boosters. It's not even Dangerous that's the problem. A master Sidey is impossible to draw a bead on, currently.

If that was the intention all along, it was a poor design decision.

Its logical , remeber sidewinders have that name for a reason.

Sidewinders are crap , but they can outturn any ship and are very fast.

Pythons are great , scary when faced head on... however they are slow to turn , so if you can get behind a python well , the python has no chance.

I would recomend using a faster ship or editing your loadout.
What FD did is add ship roles to the game

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

How come I can still run trade routes in a shieldless, weaponless, T7 and not die constantly like everyone else is complaining about?
Thought i was still playing 2.0 but nope upgraded to 2.1.

Seems pretty easy to me, why would you stop and faff about with an elite FDL npc in your T9 anyway?
Either High Wake out right away or wing up with a buddy in a combat fit ship.

I don't get the hardness thing unless you go looking for trouble with Dangerous ranked AI and higher,
heck I'm still pledged with my power and get interdicted all the time, the worst I've ever had was 90% hull.

Also a tip with trading, stay away from anarchy systems and shipping lanes.

 

[Manticore]

This. People are underestimating just how great the new mission board is. I've seen several pirate assassination missions that paid a ton, up to 2 million credits per target. And there were illegal assassinations available for over 2.5 mil.

Honestly, I never thought I would say this, but people need to let the whole RES farming mentality die out. As someone who used to enjoy RES hunting farming all the time, I never thought I'd be so happy to see it gone. For the first time in Elite, I actually felt like a real bounty hunter.

No matter what I think I believe this comment needs quoting for truth.

I got the living crap kicked out of me last night leaving the No Fire Zone of an orbital in a hostile system. It seemed that every hostile NPC in the system descended on me the second I was outside the Zone and fifteen seconds later I was toast.

Perhaps rage-quitting would have be good considering it cost me 400,000+ Credits in insurance for the load-out and it was the first time in months I have lost a ship to anyone; human or NPC. I enjoyed it. This game was always supposed to be the Wild West in Outer Space (in some ways; anyways).

Great stuff Frontier!

 

[Privata]

How come I can still run trade routes in a shieldless, weaponless, T7 and not die constantly like everyone else is complaining about?
Thought i was still playing 2.0 but nope upgraded to 2.1.

Seems pretty easy to me, why would you stop and faff about with an elite FDL npc in your T9 anyway?
Either High Wake out right away or wing up with a buddy in a combat fit ship.

I don't get the hardness thing unless you go looking for trouble with Dangerous ranked AI and higher,
heck I'm still pledged with my power and get interdicted all the time, the worst I've ever had was 90% hull.

Also a tip with trading, stay away from anarchy systems and shipping lanes.

Adaptation ! I love it... it makes the world feel alive. so far 2.1 should have been called ''life'' because the universe is alive now

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I doubt that they want it, but it might well be the end result. Unfortunately.

Do you know ED is really niche game? Why do you think it needs "casuals"? And why do you think so low about casual players?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Except from what I've seen missions are still broken far more often than is tolerable. So it's RES or bust for combat pilots.

Sheesh, you guys still spout so much nonsense.