Discuss the AI here!

[Anson22]

Finally had time to do some flying last night. Did some missions in my light-build T6. Got interdicted three times and escaped before the AI pirate could bring weapons to bear. 4th interdiction and I couldn't get away fast enough - shields down and light alloy hull shredded - KaBoom! My only complaint is police response time... Secure system with ISS everywhere - yet they didn't drop in :-( Looks like I'm going to have to fire up the Vulture and do their work for them as usual ;-) On a serious note - this is really where I expect the NPC's to be and I expect we will all have to adjust our strategies and builds to meet the more realistic threat. Of course the strategy might be to accept a ship loss every 10 or so high reward missions? We'll see... Next few week's flying are going to be fun

 

[rasputinman]

the only issue is for me , up until now , Ive only been killed twice in the game before the patch

now the third has occured

i thjnk 4 and 5 might not be far behind .




i view being killed as actually being killed , not re-spawning with some miraculous way .

if you eject then surely there must be an escape pod like the original elite

where do you go when you get blown up , seems weird you get transported hundreds of light years back automatically,

really if you get killed should start from bare sidewinder again

 

[-Shai-]

Whiners! If you can't fight human npc now, how will you fight vs thargoids?! )

 

[CMDR CLASH]

yeah maybe your right and i've not done enough missions for one faction to get high rewards but doing missions and getting ranks is not encouraging when you have dangerous combat rank and it only gives you 100 000 to kill an entire wing that now is quite hard to kill alone with the new ia. Even more discouraging when your taken damage will cost you almost the entire reward... I.ll say it again they should keep the Ia like that but at least give us the possibility to have a wing with npc's to help you. I think it could be interesting anyway to have a wing too sometimes when your friend are not online.

 

[Insane4un]

The current adaptation is turret or bust though, I love the new AI but at some point you have to admit its gonna need tweaking, I've had a novice rank imp courier stay in the blind zone on my corvette perfectly for a solid 3 minutes with zero mistakes (was testing), that is a skill i've never even found in a player lol, though a player would have done considerably more damage.

Now if AI of that skill was reserved for exceptional ranks (elite/dangerous) I don't think it needs tweaking, but a novice is daft i'm not sure i can even tell the difference between NPC ranks currently - I think they all fly exceptionally well vs large ships but lower ranks have worse equipment, their actual piloting skill is identical.

Still loving the change I wish the game had been like this from the start maybe the whole dynamic would be different, always harder when your lulled into a false sense of security Its not been too bad for me as I've always chosen to deliberately fight good players if possible but I can sympathize with how solo/pve players will feel about this.

You just don't know how to fly on Corvette. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to say that you are bad. Just not good enouth. It is not that hard to get rid of a eagle that is flying around you. And simple reverse is not enouth to handle it. You have to do a really good reverse. It requires some skill to do this. FA OFF, boost, pitch up, rear thrusters down engine -100% and 100% when is it in blue area rear thrusters up. And you are flying in a maximum speed 270 in reverse. It is enouth time to kill/damage any eagle and whatever. But you have to be in FA OFF all time while this maneure.

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

FAS is only nimble vs slow heavy ships, and to some extent vs the FDL. Beyond that, it is a barn door with a well oiled hinge. Corners fast but is easy as hell to shoot. This drift you notice is also telling you something you may not realize. The FAS has intertia. Intertia creates predictable flight paths. Which means AI aiming routines are going to guess right more often than not. Adding heavy armor may not limit your turning radius much, but it increases your drift (inertia). Exacerbating the predictable flight path issues of high mass ships.

And against a Viper, which it turns faster than even with heavy armor. The inertia of the ship is when it's at its extreme speeds, not when it's rounding corners, and it's inertia makes it harder to predict if anything; you might be shooting at that FAS but it can, and often will, blow past you and turn on your 6 before you know what's happening. Ironically, the heavy armor makes its inertia easier to control because it still retains that drift at high speeds and less mass. The base hull of the FAS is actually heavier than the Anaconda and it just means the ship runs past its target even faster when it's light.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The AI is hard now, but thats a good thing.
You have to be really considered in your engagement choices and take care to have a loadout specific to your goals. A one size fits all combat build for assasinations, bounty hunting, piracy and res just wont cut it any more.

Looking at the skill level of the NPC you're about to lock horns with is vital now. I just got destroyed in my tricked out vulture (I'm combat expert rating) by an Elite Viper mkIV. He used his speed to keep me turning and targeted my thrusters and engines, just like you'd expect a top tier pilot to be doing. I wont be just engaging anyone lightly anymore.
I really feel that this is a great thing and the shot in the arm that the combat aspect of the game sorely needed. I got ganged up on in a combat zone yesterday and got zapped in minutes by enemies working intelligently together and using combat specific loadouts.

FD, PLEASE don't dumb it down!!!!!

Having real choice and consequence in combat is really very exciting and it's taken what was becoming very ho-hum, by the numbers combat, and turned it into something you really have to think about for each engagement.

Yes it's hard, but thats a good thing and adds realism.
I havent encountered any single targets of low combat rating yet, but I anticipate that they are considerably easier to kill.
If you're finding the combat too tough, wing up, or be more intelligent in when you engage and when you run.

In the poll, I voted "just right".

And so, Elite is now a tactical air combat sim, not a space sandbox.

 

[vermu]

I can understand why Elite can be hard for ppl that are used to different skill levels. I can imagine that most of the ppl that are complaining about AI take always the easiest skill level in every game. They just want to run through the game without wanting the learn the game mechanics. When this kind of player comes to Elite and there aren't different skill levels player has two options. Either learn the game mechanics and become a better pilot or just whine cause it's too hard. It's simple as that. Instead of whining those players could ask advice from seasoned pilots. I am sure they are willing to help other people. We could easily turn whine threads in to learning threads.

 

[Derath]

You just don't know how to fly on Corvette. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to say that you are bad. Just not good enouth. It is not that hard to get rif of a eagle that is flying around you. And simple reverse is not enouth to handle it. You have to do a really good reverse. It requires some skill to do this. FA OFF, boost, pitch up, rear thrusters down engine -100% and 100% when is it in blue area rear thrusters up. And you are flying in a maximum speed 270 in reverse. It is enouth time to kill/damage any eagle and whatever. But you have to be in FA OFF all time while this maneure.

Judging by your post I'm gonna assume reading comprehension isn't your strong point, I don't suffer from any of said problems I was putting in the perspective of a regular player

Ie the whole point was your asking for a top percentile player to beat a bottom percentile NPC when using the large ships

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

great, farming is over. I hope once and for all.

What's wrong with it? And no it isn't. It's just been made arbitrarily slower. The Bulletin board is still buggy so it's not a solution to replace it.

 

[rasputinman]

Judging by your post I'm gonna assume reading comprehension isn't your strong point, I don't suffer from any of said problems I was putting in the perspective of a regular player

Ie the whole point was your asking for a top percentile player to beat a bottom percentile NPC when using the large ships

as they say if your reading comprehension isnt good , then git gud

 

[verminstar]

Been reading this thread from beginning to end now. And I've just had a deja-vu moment. I felt like I was back in Eve. Yeah that horrible, elitist Eve. Where everyone who felt superior in their fighting skills called others carebears and full of tears.

Until now ED forums used to be one of the best, most positive forums of all games I've been playing. I even mentioned in another forum how much I like being here. Until now. It really saddens me how people changed literally overnight from super helpful to horrible human beings just because they are elitists, and in their opinion newbies or those less skilled should 'git gut or git out'. Shame to you.

I gotta say that my first couple weeks in here were pretty tough, but some here in the community were very helpful and some were seemingly prepared to bend over backwards to help a genuinely new and struggling player. I had heard that the community here was one of the best, and I was starting to believe it.

I played eve for 6 years and in all my time there, I can't ever remember meeting some of the hardcore snobs I've met here. I mean yeah, it's certainly not new player friendly but the hostility I have witnessed here is truly eye opening....and not in a good way.

I asked the players here what I can possibly do next...here fer 2 weeks and facing bankruptcy in the space of a couple hours play and being tortured by agent smith type npc who were way higher level than me...and supposedly safe space.

One or two tried to give some advice but failed to tell me anything I don't already know...when I pointed this out, it got nasty and I was called a liar and told to go play candy crush or something else equally benign.

The claims about this being one of the best communities, none of them were true...I see that now. This "community" is nothing more than a nest of hardcore snobs who have farmed their way to the top and now laugh at everyone else who are struggling.

I even had one guy telling me to just run after being ed fer the umpteenth time, after I explained that escape was simply not possible. Guy who told me to "just run" then went onto say that I would have a far better chance at surviving when I have spent a few mill on ships and upgrades. Great advice? More like common sense really as spending millions I don't have on ships and gear I know nothing about would be considered the natural progression of just about all games in the history of games ever.

So far, not one of the so called pro elitists have managed to impart anything of their far superior skill sets that could be described as useful to me. Trading is out of the question...can't hand missions back because they bugged also what little rep I have managed to build up has vanished with failed missions. Exploration isn't possible considering how many       will me and trying to farm even the supposedly easy npc is suicide, and mining really wasn't on my bucket list of things to do either, although I have heard of miners being attacked now without warning.

So...once again...does one of the way superior gaming pros here wanna suggest to me how I get to their uber level? Of course, a mere mortal like me could in no way ever hope to be as great as some the egos here, but just a little tip to send me in the right direction. I mean, I know they all made their fortunes on easy npc but I'm sure we can overlook this little detail as being too inconvenient to the argument...got blasted yesterday for bringing that little point up...seems some here don't like hearing the truth ^^

 

[Insane4un]

Judging by your post I'm gonna assume reading comprehension isn't your strong point, I don't suffer from any of said problems I was putting in the perspective of a regular player

Ie the whole point was your asking for a top percentile player to beat a bottom percentile NPC when using the large ships

May be i don't get what you mean. Could be. Not my native lang. But regular player don't have Corvette and don't even bother it. But Robigo kids.. they do.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

lots of abusive pew pews who havent yet met any REAL new AI. i have. i got lucky. and dont give me crap about you dont know how to fly your asp explorer. i know im good at it. i know when to run. the master level npc i came across you wouldnt have been able to run either. and fighting would have gotten you vaped sooner. thats not an exciting encounter. thats the game deciding you are going to die. when you dont have money for infinite rebuys, you will not be so quick to insult other people. well i guess most of you will actually because a lot seem to be selfish and arrogant who believe all games are made for them alone and nobody elses opinions and wishes to enjoy games THEIR way matters.

FD if you intend to keep this AI or make it worse then you need to drop all pretence of needing any rebuy - so free ship replacement in full as it was, or completely redo combat ranks somehow, because everyone is going to rank up just by playing unless they ALWAYS flee from combat. and no combat at all means the game isnt a game its a chore. im not sticking around for a grinding chore with no chance to make any money or rebuy anything other than a sidewinder just to be destroyed over and over by opponents with modded systems and weapons i wont ever get. i cant do any modding so far because you need combat for some mats, and need to go driving an srv or mining for others. its a lie on your part to think you arent forcing people to use the engineers, and do things they dont want to do such as making a throwaway ship with an srv to grind mats, or waste more money on a throwaway mine ship over and over just for mats to give you a fair chance to live long enough to have any fun. so much for playing any other role but combat.

i dont have space for an srv in any of my current ships - they are not aimed at landing on planets and driving - nor can i afford to build an npc caannon fodder to fail at mining before being wiped. and even if my opponents are killable and at or below my level, unless you give me a toggle to cap my combat ranking from increasing then i and everyone who isnt already got infinite rebuy credits and elite combat rank, will wind up with a too high combat rank getting interdicted by ships we have no chance of evading fleeing or fighting, because we didnt want to be full time combateers; we were trying to do the jobs that in a REAL galaxy someone has to do to make the whole society work... trading, mining, and exploring candidate systems for settlement. you might as well remove solo and groups and open and just have arena as it stands.

 

[Derath]

May be i don't get what you mean. Could be. Not my native lang. But regular player don't have Corvette and don't even bother it. But Robigo kids.. they do.

The games been out for a year and a half anyone who chips away slowly will have enough for a corvette, I've never been to robigo, didn't do seeking luxuries, early rares, cap ship farming and made 75% of my money from piracy and I still have enough for one

Not to say that people who rushed the big ships without any concept of how to fly them isn't a thing, its really common, but the AI is beyond the scope of most players if your in a large ship and some of the large ships aren't designed around turrets (dirty corvette)

apologies for giving you stick if its not your native, sometimes its hard to tell if someone genuinely doesn't understand or just trying to wind you up

 

[Insane4un]

as they say if your reading comprehension isnt good , then git gud

I will. I still in way to improve my english

 

[DBCloggy]

After my initial Interdiction on the first night of the new version where I was pulverised in about 30 seconds, I started to record video of every gaming session using Open Broadcast in order to try to see what was going on. This time I did manage to escape with 39% of my hull intact. I had no option whatsoever than to immediately run as my shields were completely brought down in just under 5 seconds.

I had my second interdiction, also by a deadly pilot in a Viper. During the interdiction I did try to escape initially, but when I realised that wasn't going to happen I submitted by shutting down the throttle. Even so when I dropped I was left spinning and with a long FSD period.

Within a 5 second period they had take my shields off line. In the next two minutes they proceeded to spam me with missiles (I had point defence installed now which may be what saved me!). They were also firing some sort of weapon that was green in colour. I know this because during dodging I saw a few flashes pass by.

It took two minutes before I could Jump out of there. In this time I dodged about, badly I suppose, and I sure when I process the video and post it someone will point out my faults. Finally I managed to jump. By this time my hull was down to 39%. I'm pretty certain that if I didn't have point defence installed I would have been wiped out again.

Interestingly, they scanned me and I had no cargo as I had been in a Low intensity RES, but I did have a small bounty (200+ Cr) as I had accidentally shot a ship that was wanted and being attacked by the feds, but I hadn't waited for the scan to finish.

I will continue to monitor to see if I encounter the dead in 30 seconds issue again.

I don't have a problem with this scenario, but I do think that no matter how good a pilot I was, I would be in the same situation as any attempt to turn towards him and attack would have ended in certain death. I hope not all interdictions are the same for me.

 

[SnowyNI]

It is extraordinary. In all games a people want better AI, more challenging game. In Diablo they want another hell/nightmare levels, deeper rifts. They are joining into the groups to go deeper and deepar if they cant alone. In the new Doom a folks are playing on some hard levels, in The Witcher they are playing new game+ but here: folks are complaining for quality of AI when AI becomes just enjoyable, not even nightmare/hell/hard.

And does any of said games cost you a months worth of playing in credits if you loose? Thought not, move along... move along! *waves hand*

 

[Garbarrage]

Finally got to see what all the fuss was about last night. What I encountered was much more believable than previously. Made 300k in bounties in less than 20 minutes interdicting wanted pilots and dropping in to USS. Dropped in to threat lvl4 and didn't meet anything that I couldn't handle in my FAS.

I can see how it might be difficult to farm in Rez sites and CZs now. But honestly I believe this will be a good thing for the game in the long run. Bounty hunting is different now. It's less grindy and far more entertaining. I can still rip through wings of pirates, but I have to use all of the tools available. FA-off, pip management, timing boosts. My beams malfunctioning leas to a couple of "Uh-oh" moments, until I realised that they would reboot and my FAS is tough enough to tank and slippery enough to outfly several enemies for however long it takes.

With the old NPCs I was a lazy pilot. 4 pips to weapons, 2 to engines, don't worry about shields in an FAS. Rarely would I bother with FA off. I'd just drop into a Rez and use gimbals to collect credits. It was boring, and a grind. I'm genuinely not a great pilot. This isn't a "Git gud" post. I will become a better pilot thanks to these AI though.

I hope they don't get "balanced" before players get a chance to adapt them.

 

[rasputinman]

I will. I still in way to improve my english

until you get better then dont reply at all , saves the trouble