Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%

  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%

  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%

  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%
  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

Kirth

Kirth
yodajedifishmaster said:
and then later when the vast majority of players are gone - the casuals who make or break games with their money because pro gamers are not numerous enough to support games alone financially - you wonder why the game closed for not being profitable. 'this game was never for casuals' becomes 'why didnt they cater for casuals/why didnt the casuals come back when they changed it in desperation/they dumbed it down and it died because no casuals came on board'

tens of thousands of us against a few hundred of you and this ISNT sparta. which side can pay the most when you count game price x number of players? casuals. you annoy the people who give you the most money then they keep their money.
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You have no idea of 10,000s of 'us' vs other numbers. Most people do not use forums, reddit in any game. They simply play it and move on. Your post is mostly about YOU, claiming to speak on behalf of others. Predictions of the markets in relation to games, is very common by random people and most often wrong.

Space sims like train sims are a niche market and always have been - they aren't designed to appeal to casuals, but those interested in the genre who are their core audience.
 

Dragongard

D
the whole problem is the broken powerplay ai right now.... i hope the normal ai wont get nerfed just because some people think this brutal behavior is intended.
 

Screamapillar

Screamapillar
SnowyNI said:
That's it, keep it up. The "Git gud"s and insults only fan the flames. I personally have wrote a letter to Her Maj Queen Lizzy to have a word in Dave's ear (as their pals I heard), failing that, if she'd send Mr. Bond out to FDev HQ!

You guys get to keep the salt, we get the Bar-b-que! ;)

Edit: A wee question then... To all you "claiming" everything is ok, what are you flying and how much cash as your character got? I think we'll find a nice pattern...
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I'm running at less than a million Cobra MK IV. Class A Shields 600k Credits. Each death costs me 200k. So this is a big issue, I don't expendable oh I'll just try again somewhere else. AI got me that time. My shields within in seconds of being interdicted. After seeing all these videos of the quote 'Elite' players. I'll post my own to the forum of my current build. Including Commander Hooch's sidewinder request with basic hardware, since I don't have that kind of cash flow he does. Curious what other Youtubers will be putting out on this topic, as it has become quite heated with half the player base split almost.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Goose4291
yodajedifishmaster said:
and then later when the vast majority of players are gone - the casuals who make or break games with their money because pro gamers are not numerous enough to support games alone financially - you wonder why the game closed for not being profitable. 'this game was never for casuals' becomes 'why didnt they cater for casuals/why didnt the casuals come back when they changed it in desperation/they dumbed it down and it died because no casuals came on board'

tens of thousands of us against a few hundred of you and this ISNT sparta. which side can pay the most when you count game price x number of players? casuals. you annoy the people who give you the most money then they keep their money.
Click to expand...

I'd disagree with that. DCS World and the ArmA franchise hardly cater to the 'casual' market, and both do well both in terms of profits and being respected as gaming experiences.
 

Cmdr Cheese Wedge

Cmdr Cheese Wedge
Maybe we should ask the big man himself.
"Hey David, what do you think of the 2.1 AI? Are they too hard? Are they too easy? Are they just right for your own gameplay style?"
Remember guys this is DB's baby after all.
 

Roybe

Roybe
yodajedifishmaster said:
and then later when the vast majority of players are gone - the casuals who make or break games with their money because pro gamers are not numerous enough to support games alone financially - you wonder why the game closed for not being profitable. 'this game was never for casuals' becomes 'why didnt they cater for casuals/why didnt the casuals come back when they changed it in desperation/they dumbed it down and it died because no casuals came on board'

tens of thousands of us against a few hundred of you and this ISNT sparta. which side can pay the most when you count game price x number of players? casuals. you annoy the people who give you the most money then they keep their money.
Click to expand...


The problem with this idea is that this game is not designed with 'casuals' in mind, at least not in the overall plan. It's designed with dedication in mind. Time poor players are expected to play with the same skill level as the time rich. Time poor players already have to accept that they will 'get what they want' at a slower pace. The AI might take people a little longer to kill...and might cause some pain as the new behaviors are learned and adapted to...but in no way mean the game is unplayable. I ran in game last night over 500 ly in an unarmed Python...and did not once see or deal with an NPC. I watched some friends in a Nav Point...and the AI was not overwhelming. Both of them were in Asps.


If by 'casual' you are talking about players that, for whatever reason, cannot battle well...and have little chance to improve, you are correct. Increasing AI aggression will cause these people to leave the game. This is an acceptable loss. Just as making a game overly easy will trim the tail of the distribution curve on the right. Balancing games through AI is a tight rope. There will always be people that cannot rise to the challenge, this is different from people that are used to 'easy mode' and refuse to rise to the challenge. People that cannot adapt will quit the game, because the game is no fun for them. These players are irreplaceable..because the market pushes them out of the game. Those that refuse to change will quit...but they are replaceable. Others with identical skills and time will play the game and succeed.

I know the above is a long way to go to say 'git good', and I am sorry..because I hate that idea. However, the truth is, each player must find out if they cannot get better to beat the new AI...or are just refusing to, because the change is different and made the game more challenging for them.
 
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Derath

D
Cosmos said:
Oh come on.. but even if we except your argument then the Vulture, DBS, Courier, Viper, FAS and FDL, Asp Scout would own in there. I don't accept your ponit btw.. So change your ship.

The Corvette can do just fine, true its modded but these arguments about the AI being too hard are frankly ridiculous.
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Firstly nobody has a fully modded ship currently so we really can't compare, I suspect larges will come into their own again once they are heavily modded.

Secondly I don't think the AI is too hard nor am I arguing that it is, i'm saying taking a sidewinder to a HREZ as a measure of difficulty isn't a good one because smalls are perfectly capable of abusing any large ship that isn't running turrets.

Thirdly your corvette video is only fighting large ships I don't think many people are having issues with large vs large currently, I'm certainly not, large is the only type where I can't tell they buffed the AI (outside of engineer equipment)
 
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Cmdr Cheese Wedge

Cmdr Cheese Wedge
Goose4291 said:
I'd disagree with that. DCS World and the ArmA franchise hardly cater to the 'casual' market, and both do well both in terms of profits and being respected as gaming experiences.
Click to expand...

Two very well respected and hardcore sim/games, both going great guns and still being built upon after all these years.
Still fire then up when I can tear myself away from ED.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Colonial Air Force said:
THey did. SJA said the AI is not being nerfed and in fact will get harder.
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HAZZAH!!!
 

Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
Roybe said:
The problem with this idea is that this game is not designed with 'casuals' in mind, at least not in the overall plan. It's designed with dedication in mind. Time poor players are expected to play with the same skill level as the time rich. Time poor players already have to accept that they will 'get what they want' at a slower pace. The AI might take people a little longer to kill...and might cause some pain as the new behaviors are learned and adapted to...but in no way mean the game is unplayable. I ran in game last night over 500 ly in an unarmed Python...and did not once see or deal with an NPC. I watched some friends in a Nav Point...and the AI was not overwhelming. Both of them were in Asps.


If by 'casual' you are talking about players that, for whatever reason, cannot battle well...and have little chance to improve, you are correct. Increasing AI aggression will cause these people to leave the game. This is an acceptable loss. Just as making a game overly easy will trim the tail of the distribution curve on the right. Balancing games through AI is a tight rope. There will always be people that cannot rise to the challenge, this is different from people that are used to 'easy mode' and refuse to rise to the challenge. People that cannot adapt will quit the game, because the game is no fun for them. These players are irreplaceable..because the market pushes them out of the game. Those that refuse to change will quit...but they are replaceable. Others with identical skills and time will play the game and succeed.

I know the above is a long way to go to say 'git good', and I am sorry..because I hate that idea. However, the truth is, each player must find out if they cannot get better to beat the new AI...or are just refusing to, because the change is different and made the game more challenging for them.
Click to expand...

Not true at all. I am a casual player who finds the AI to be just right. I have several friends who play the game that fit into the same category.
 

yodajedifishmaster

yodajedifishmaster
ilo said:
the big difference is in our arguments.. I don't talk about FD at all, you only say: no more game.

I'm happy to help you fighting the AI, teaching you if you need it to, but I'm a casual player too.. so, your point now is???
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my point is i apologise. i have seen too much of these posts from snobby elitist git gudders and it annoys me. they have billions and rebuys to them are nothing so the ships are practically throwaway if they lose so they dont mind. the rest of us arent rich. im slowly making money and i have a half built FAS i spent 40 mil on and needs another 40 mil and probably will die with one npc due to the shields being useless so i may never finish the build now. im just sick of the few saying its all ok and everyone will adapt after a few losses and getting stuck in a sidewinder when they will never have to experience that. and they stick their heads in the sand and assume FD will do nothing if they scream louder than others do and somehow the game will survive when only they are left. thats the tone they seem to have. they want space invaders 3d. on acid. yet they none of them want to play CQC arena. i was having fun with the game and now its less fun if i have to run and never get to fight ever. and occasionally die with nothing i can do making a difference then the insult of rebuy after that. if they make unwinnable unescapable fights they need to rethink rebuy.

nothing you could teach would have helped with the master viper i faced. im not exactly useless in my asp, but what can you do with shields gone and massive damage to hull and powerplant in under 30 seconds, and an FSD drive that flips on and off when you are hit, and when he keeps up when you are boosting to try get out of range - or keeps hitting you at long range or both as i suspect now. if the cops hadnt jumped in at 30 seconds that ship was gone and with it 25% of my funds. and i couldnt fight back i realised that as soon as he fired and i returned and saw how much damage to my shield vs damge i did to his. i was fleeing with boost and pips to eng and rest to sys after 3 or 4 seconds. maybe less. and evasion didnt seem to help. boosting didnt. i just dont see what else. there were no missiles launched. just what weapons he had firing. one encounter like that in a game is enough.
 

Wasp0

Wasp0
Truth is the AI is harder, anyone saying different is fooling not the forum, but themselves. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see the AI is better able to fight.

If you love the game like i do, then you will adapt your game style to deal with it. If you can't or won't adapt, you will struggle with this game.

Personally i hope you all adapt, as it will be a worse off game if we lose numbers.
 
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