The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Electrofreak]

Your point was about accurate predictions, not whether the rate of personnel churn is natural or not. He gave us actual names before the fact.

Again, a completely irrelevant attempt to redirect the point.

CiG threatened to sue the Escapist if they didn't take the existing articles down, not if they wrote new ones. The Escapist articles stayed up, and CiG didn't sue.

And again, completely irrelevant to the point. The insider info Derek got wasn't that they had a coffee machine, it's that they specifically had a $20,000 one. And it turned out to be 100% accurate, months later it was revealed they had a expensive commercial grade barista machine that just happened to be worth almost exactly $20,000... (it was actually the company that supplied the machine that technically revealed it, on facebook IIRC).

He's made predictions and given insider info that turned out to be true, so what you said is wrong. Stop trying to poison the well by saying he's never made an accurate prediction.

I mean, I could ask you to provide proof. I never saw him actually say anything in advance. But that's not my point, I don't hang on his every word. I'm not interested in whether or not Derek Smart has an inside contact at CIG. He may very well, it doesn't matter. I've talked with one of their devs privately before. Does that mean I have an inside contact at CIG?

But what Derek Smart is predicting here in this thread is Star Citizen's failure. Something he has done multiple times and has never been correct on. His "E.L.E"s, predictions of total business collapse, predictions of mass-walk-outs, predictions of closing offices... a dozen or so ridiculous claims, all with deadlines attached of 2 weeks, 1 month, 90 days... all of which passed without event. I'll be more than happy to provide those examples in the morning if you're interested.

So if you want to play the game of semantics, sure, Derek Smart has officially been right at least once about something. But if you look at his track record of predictions for the failure of CIG and their project, he's batting zero, and has been all season. So why does anyone believe when he steps up to bat, that he's actually going to hit anything? All of those that defend him have curiously poor memories when it comes to rallying behind his latest "revelation".

 

[Ozram]

What are these financial reports that CIG are supposed to be producing? What's the driver behind this?

As an aside I'll chip in that I really think the majority on this thread would be delighted to see SQ42 and SC delivered, I certainly do.

Whether they will or not, well no one truly knows, whichever side of the fence they are on. My feeling is it's unlikely we'll see anything this year, but I don't view that per se as a problem. What I think is a valid concern are the missed deadlines so far, but with Erin involved we can perhaps hope matters will improve.

As I've said before, there's a cracking dissertation waiting for someone wanting to review game development in comparing ED, NMS and SC, and arguably a decent MBA too.

I would like nothing better than to be proven completely wrong about SC, CIG and cROBERts. Wouldn't it be nice?

 

[tooterfish]

I mean, I could ask you to provide proof. I never saw him actually say anything in advance. But that's not my point, I don't hang on his every word. I'm not interested in whether or not Derek Smart has an inside contact at CIG. He may very well, it doesn't matter. I've talked with one of their devs privately before. Does that mean I have an inside contact at CIG?

But what Derek Smart is predicting here in this thread is Star Citizen's failure. Something he has done multiple times and has never been correct on. His "E.L.E"s, predictions of total business collapse, predictions of mass-walk-outs, predictions of closing offices... a dozen or so ridiculous claims, all with deadlines attached of 2 weeks, 1 month, 90 days... all of which passed without event. I'll be more than happy to provide those examples in the morning if you're interested.

So if you want to play the game of semantics, sure, Derek Smart has officially been right at least once about something. But if you look at his track record of predictions for the failure of CIG and their project, he's batting zero, and has been all season. So why does anyone believe when he steps up to bat, that he's actually going to hit anything? All of those that defend him have curiously poor memories when it comes to rallying behind his latest "revelation".

I don't hang on his every word either, and I'm not defending him or playing semantic games, I'm trying to make sure the discussion stays honest. You're trying to shift the narrative to the prevailing one of Star Citizen fans, that Derek is always wrong don't listen to him, and that stinks.

It's pretty telling that your responses to me are littered with passive aggressive little digs, when all I did was point out that Derek actually has been right on a number of occasions.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I don't hang on his every word either, and I'm not defending him or playing semantic games, I'm trying to make sure the discussion stays honest. You're trying to shift the narrative to the prevailing one of Star Citizen fans, that Derek is always wrong don't listen to him, and that stinks.

It's pretty telling that your responses to me are littered with passive aggressive little digs, when all I did was point out that Derek actually has been right on a number of occasions.

So true....What I finding really irritating is that the some of SC fans acting like if there was no DS everything will be just fine and all their trouble will be gone with the wind and the rest of"US"will never happened,like we was just an echo of DS mind....For god sake ppl. so many of us in here raise many concerns and point on potential CIG failures,mistakes and problems years before DS was writing his first critical blog,and this easily could be proven from net history until these days here or on the SC forum,ok maybe they could not see "US" all on the SC forum that often but that's probably because the "CULT" make sure to either burn us alive or to exile us forever......

 

[Barking_Mad]

There are people who believe Frontier has failed to meet their obligations in respect to Elite, and those who believe that CIG has done the same with Star Citizen.

[haha]

Edit: Just to be clear, it wasnt that some people aren't disappointed at Elite or any obligations they expected from Frontier, as I'm sure there are. It was the attempt at drawing a comparative equivalence regarding the levels of disappointment between the two games in order to minimise the issues with Star Citizen.

 

[bitstorm]

HEh I missed that one. SOrry but I'll add a [haha]

 

[Neo-ST]

Is it still possible for an early backer (generation 2012) to get a refund for his pledge to SC ?

 

[Stigbob]

I mean, I could ask you to provide proof. I never saw him actually say anything in advance. But that's not my point, I don't hang on his every word. I'm not interested in whether or not Derek Smart has an inside contact at CIG. He may very well, it doesn't matter. I've talked with one of their devs privately before. Does that mean I have an inside contact at CIG?

But what Derek Smart is predicting here in this thread is Star Citizen's failure. Something he has done multiple times and has never been correct on. His "E.L.E"s, predictions of total business collapse, predictions of mass-walk-outs, predictions of closing offices... a dozen or so ridiculous claims, all with deadlines attached of 2 weeks, 1 month, 90 days... all of which passed without event. I'll be more than happy to provide those examples in the morning if you're interested.

So if you want to play the game of semantics, sure, Derek Smart has officially been right at least once about something. But if you look at his track record of predictions for the failure of CIG and their project, he's batting zero, and has been all season. So why does anyone believe when he steps up to bat, that he's actually going to hit anything? All of those that defend him have curiously poor memories when it comes to rallying behind his latest "revelation".

Star citizens theoretical failure isn't something that would happen on multiple occasions, it's a thing may or may not happen. He's right or he's wrong, we don't know yet. Personally I think he's probably right only time will tell.

The "two weeks" thing is a joke that relates to CIG's habit of repeatedly giving and breaking two week deadlines for star marine. It's not a serious prediction or timescale.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Derek's broad assertion that the game as pitched by CR in its broad detail cannot be made for $114m is correct. SC backers say "It will take time because it's the most ambitious game ever made" whilst failing to accept they can't make that game for that amount of money,even if they had been extreme well project managed, which they clearly haven't. I don't agree it's likely to collapse, but the game will slowly be transitioned to reflect the available budget and there'd be the likely fallout.

 

[lysan]

I have no intention of being disrespectful. It is a legitimate question. Derek Smart is claiming here that Star Citizen will fail. He has made the same prediction countless times before over the last several years, and yet the game continues to see active development.

I'd like him to address why this time his suggestion is any different. Or, if he'd rather challenge the allegation, he's welcome to cite specific examples where he has made such claims of failure and can provide evidence that he has been unconditionally correct. In typical fashion, he'll probably call me a "shill" or some such, and tell me to "Google it" or "read his blog". Or realistically, he will ignore this post entirely, because he doesn't have the proof to back up his statements.

I'm coming into this discussion as someone with a lot of time spent in both ED and Star Citizen. I enjoy both games for different reasons, and both are being developed in different manners. There are people who believe Frontier has failed to meet their obligations in respect to Elite, and those who believe that CIG has done the same with Star Citizen.

But most people who take a very one-sided stance in this kind of discussion do not and have not played both games extensively.

FD never took +$100 mil. from the backers and the only thing you could argue FD didn't deliver was the offline mode. Everyone who wanted a refund because of that could get it by contacting FD. Case close.

 

[Stigbob]

Derek's broad assertion that the game as pitched by CR in its broad detail cannot be made for $114m is correct. SC backers say "It will take time because it's the most ambitious game ever made" whilst failing to accept they can't make that game for that amount of money,even if they had been extreme well project managed, which they clearly haven't. I don't agree it's likely to collapse, but the game will slowly be transitioned to reflect the available budget and there'd be the likely fallout.

There's a potential issue with a transition to a more realistic pitch. Having promised pretty much all things to all people (yes birds too) they have more customers requiring different game aspects than they can possibly satisfy. Some people are not going to get the one thing they backed for, and nobody is going to get all the features they backed for. Say (as a hypothetical example) they drop mining from the game, do they refund mining ship purchasers, give them equivalent store credit or tell them tough luck that's crowdfunding. Some of the miners are only going to accept their money back, this further reduces available funds which could lead to further scope reductions which in turn causes more backers drop out and so on. Basically a possible refund cascade.

 

[Voivod]

Wow some of Max's opinions on that reddit thread about posters here really show his true feelings
We're just a bunch of "extremist haters", "trolls" and "aggressive people" that try to misguide people who "have no idea what's going on in here".

I love the irony though when he mentions witch hunts while posting on a thread in /r/dererksmart

 

[Stigbob]

Wow some of Max's opinions on that reddit thread about posters here really show his true feelings
We're just a bunch of "extremist haters", "trolls" and "aggressive people" that try to misguide people who "have no idea what's going on in here".

I love the irony though when he mentions witch hunts while posting on a thread in /r/dererksmart

I think you'll find they are just "archiving", checkmate goon.

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

I would like nothing better than to be proven completely wrong about SC, CIG and cROBERts. Wouldn't it be nice?

I,'ve been waiting to be proven wrong since the first day AC launched. Backed in October 2012, before the Kickstarter.

The lies on controls were the deal breaker for me, when a company can completely lie about controller implementation(no mouse controls like Freelancer) that early you know your headed for a bad time.

The scope creep and transformation of a traditional space-sim with online play to a space-mmo with twitch FPS gameplay was twisting the knife. Never mind the changes on LTI to grab more money, lies on limited ships etc etc.

Older backers have been treated disgracefully by CIG, worst customer experience I have had with any games company/Publisher bar none.

Ironically I would have far more respect for them if they had stuck to their original pitch and gone bankrupt, those original backers did not stump up large sums of money for GTA in space. It's only made worse by the fact that it's a horrid buggy mess that will never even come close in quality to games like GTA.

 

[PhanttoM]

Let me throw in a perspective from an early backer, around $935 pledged, and have been in a Star Citizen Organization (guild) since June 2013, (and by the way has over 2200 hours logged in Elite);


I gave up discussing any criticism with Star Citizen fans a while ago. The official forums even longer ago. It was pretty obvious it wasn't possible for many people (not all), to have a calm discussion as they are clearly emotionally affected by it.
It's the main reason I primarily only read threads like this.




As for Star Citizen itself. I've been in a Hope for the best, prepare for the worst kind of state for some time now.

 

[AlPilg]

Sorry to see Max go, I thought he was quite a nice humble guy and spent many hours defending SC which he got unsuprisingly little thanks for here.

Before anyone says I was one of the ones hassling him it was more gentle teasing although I'm aware that things dont come across that way in these situations (besides he probably was feeling a little bit entrenched and therefore sensitive.)

 

[lysan]

Sorry to see Max go, I thought he was quite a nice humble guy and spent many hours defending SC which he got unsuprisingly little thanks for here.

Before anyone says I was one of the ones hassling him it was more gentle teasing although I'm aware that things dont come across that way in these situations (besides he probably was feeling a little bit entrenched and therefore sensitive.)

He is a toxic shill, paid or not by CIG he was only in the ED forum to advertise SC. Posting that crap on Reddit made me reevaluate him, and my opinion about him pretty fast.
I don't eat everything DS says or do, he is a master troll after all, but between all the "funny stuff" there are actually facts.

My evaluation so far regarding Mr. DS

1.Will SC fail? Nope, however they will not deliver as promised within the time frame given.
2.Are the project ? Yes, if you revert to 1. it is.
3.Are there any hope for the project to be completed? Yes, if they can continue to fund the project the next 2 - 3 years.
4.Will we ever see a transparent overview regarding how the backers money was spent? Nope, not even if the project fails, due to the many companies evolved.
5.Should I back Star Citizen right now? Nope, you should wait and see what they release (after gamma testing), then try it out within the refund period.
6.Will SQ42 release in 2016? no, most likely not, maybe in 2017 to early to tell.

 

[PhanttoM]

He is a toxic shill, paid or not by CIG he was only in the ED forum to advertise SC. Posting that crap on Reddit made me reevaluate him, and my opinion about him pretty fast.
I don't eat everything DS says or do, he is a master troll after all, but between all the "funny stuff" there are actually facts.

My evaluation so far regarding Mr. DS

1.Will SC fail? Nope, however they will not deliver as promised within the time frame given.
2.Are the project ? Yes, if you revert to 1. it is.
3.Are there any hope for the project to be completed? Yes, if they can continue to fund the project the next 2 - 3 years.
4.Will we ever see a transparent overview regarding how the backers money was spent? Nope, not even if the project fails, due to the many companies evolved.
5.Should I back Star Citizen right now? Nope, you should wait and see what they release (after gamma testing), then try it out within the refund period.
6.Will SQ42 release in 2016? no, most likely not, maybe in 2017 to early to tell.

The funny stuff is great - I've spent more time over the last 6-8 months reading the drama following the Escapist article, than I have playtime in Star Citizen over the last 3 years.

Where else am I gonna find funny videos like this (yep, found this on Derek's site);

[video=youtube;kWYkAVqTEtM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWYkAVqTEtM[/video]

 

[Soopyyy]

The Artists at CIG are very very talented.

 

[Sydivision77]

Star Citizen is beginning to resemble a Cargo Cult