The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[PiLhEaD]

...Where else am I gonna find funny videos like this...

It was amusing seeing the model doing its dad-dancing, but I had to turn down the 'music', as it is truly skin crawlingly dreadful... ...it gave me horrific flashbacks to the worst of 80's power-rock... the hairror, the hairror...

<shudders>

...I thought he was quite a nice humble guy...

Not my opinion.

 

[lysan]

The funny stuff is great - I've spent more time over the last 6-8 months reading the drama following the Escapist article, than I have playtime in Star Citizen over the last 3 years.

Where else am I gonna find funny videos like this (yep, found this on Derek's site);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWYkAVqTEtM

LMAO, Can we do that? or do we need a special pair of pants?

 

[AlPilg]

He is a toxic shill, paid or not by CIG he was only in the ED forum to advertise SC. Posting that crap on Reddit made me reevaluate him, and my opinion about him pretty fast.
I don't eat everything DS says or do, he is a master troll after all, but between all the "funny stuff" there are actually facts.

My evaluation so far regarding Mr. DS

1.Will SC fail? Nope, however they will not deliver as promised within the time frame given.
2.Are the project ? Yes, if you revert to 1. it is.
3.Are there any hope for the project to be completed? Yes, if they can continue to fund the project the next 2 - 3 years.
4.Will we ever see a transparent overview regarding how the backers money was spent? Nope, not even if the project fails, due to the many companies evolved.
5.Should I back Star Citizen right now? Nope, you should wait and see what they release (after gamma testing), then try it out within the refund period.
6.Will SQ42 release in 2016? no, most likely not, maybe in 2017 to early to tell.

Well if he wasn't being paid he should have been. A good thing though as he can do something else with his time now than wasting hours of it here, however I'm sure others will drop in and take the mantle of championing this load of old rollocks!

 

[Barking_Mad]

Where's the stuff Max had posted on Reddit?

 

[Zyll Goliat]

He is a toxic shill, paid or not by CIG he was only in the ED forum to advertise SC. Posting that crap on Reddit made me reevaluate him, and my opinion about him pretty fast.
I don't eat everything DS says or do, he is a master troll after all, but between all the "funny stuff" there are actually facts.

Honestly at first I was more under impression that he and Mr.Nowak are actually the same guy or that they are maybe just "siamese siblings"(aka Conjoined twins)because soon as Mr.Nowak left Max show's up in here and continue to do exactly the same thing as Nowak didi it...but anyway I do admit that I find this little"twin"brother a bit more entertaining then the other one so to speak....
And yeah pls. can you provide the exact reddit link page so that I can check the exact temperature of the"rage"level out there...Thx

 

[Zetta]

For your perusal https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart...rt_branching_to_elite_dangerous_forum_in_the/

 

[Zyll Goliat]

For your perusal https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart...rt_branching_to_elite_dangerous_forum_in_the/

Hey thx a lot...

 

[lysan]

Honestly at first I was more under impression that he and Mr.Nowak are actually the same guy or that they are maybe just "siamese siblings"(aka Conjoined twins)because soon as Mr.Nowak left Max show's up in here and continue to do exactly the same thing as Nowak didi it...but anyway I do admit that I find this little"twin"brother a bit more entertaining then the other one so to speak....
And yeah pls. can you provide the exact reddit link page so that I can check the exact temperature of the"rage"level out there...Thx

I would like to clarify, first I really don't like to talk about other people when they are not here, but I know MAX is so here we go.

My comment regarding toxic chill was due the naming of other posters from here. If someone has an issue with information that they feel are wrong or a lie, they should present facts.
I for one do not take sides, just because I don't like someone or something. I will defend the right to speak in an open environment as long as it doesn't get spread around.

We are discussing Star Citizen, with warts an all, if there are good stuff it should be recognized as such, if its bad the information should be there for all to see.
When you take the discussion out of the forum and start to mention names of other posters, right or wrong, you're in my world not transparent, and to me that is a toxic environment.

For years the RSI forums has been attacking ED and FD, without any base in reality, PG is boring, ED is Boring, SC will be soooo much more bla bla bla.

What about, sorry ED is not my kind of game, i much more prefer this. great, no problem. So from now on I will start this new line of commenting.

MAX you're not a toxic CIG shill, but i disagree with you, and you should not do a fame an shame somewhere else.

I don't believe in the star citizen project anymore, unless I see a final product. So from now on lets discuss facts.

drops mic.

 

[Clawhammer]

Wow some of Max's opinions on that reddit thread about posters here really show his true feelings
We're just a bunch of "extremist haters", "trolls" and "aggressive people" that try to misguide people who "have no idea what's going on in here".

I love the irony though when he mentions witch hunts while posting on a thread in /r/dererksmart

I can understand him, normally this is a thread about talking about star citizen. But most of the threads here are drama. You want to post the newest news of this game and talk about it? Not possible here because you get instead spammed to death with the typical same cig bashing postings over and over again.

That is very frustating for people who just want to talk about this game. When was the last time that here people talked about what weapons they should use on their ships, or answering questions about the game or any other kind of normal talk you have in any other sc forums (which dont get closed every few weeks). Currently this here seems to be a sc hater vs sc fanboys thread with no end (Because you cannot change other peoples minds). I really would like to talk about this game, but currently it is impossible here. For me, you guys destroyed this thread, thanks!

I would love it if the mods would create a secound sc thread for normal disscussion and an another one for people who just want to discharge their daily hate on this game.
No problem with bad or good opinions about sc, but i think it goes to far if the disscussion get killed.

 

[lysan]

I can understand him, normally this is a thread about talking about star citizen. But most of the threads here are drama. You want to post the newest news of this game and talk about it? Not possible here because you get instead spammed to death with the typical same cig bashing postings over and over again.

That is very frustating for people who just want to talk about this game. When was the last time that here people talked about what weapons they should use on their ships, or answering questions about the game or any other kind of normal talk you have in any other sc forums (which dont get closed every few weeks). Currently this here seems to be a sc hater vs sc fanboys thread with no end (Because you cannot change other peoples minds). I really would like to talk about this game, but currently it is impossible here. For me, you guys destroyed this thread, thanks!

I would love it if the mods would create a secound sc thread for normal disscussion and an another one for people who just want to discharge their daily hate on this game.
No problem with bad or good opinions about sc, but i think it goes to far if the disscussion get killed.

Making a new thread will not help, only one way to go, and that is to bring the discussion back on topic and talk facts. As i said earlier, I am willing to change my ways of posting.

 

[Electrofreak]

I don't hang on his every word either, and I'm not defending him or playing semantic games, I'm trying to make sure the discussion stays honest. You're trying to shift the narrative to the prevailing one of Star Citizen fans, that Derek is always wrong don't listen to him, and that stinks.

It's pretty telling that your responses to me are littered with passive aggressive little digs, when all I did was point out that Derek actually has been right on a number of occasions.

The prevailing narrative in this thread is decidedly anti-Star Citizen. As someone who is still a strong fan of Star Citizen and Elite (among many other space genre games), I'm arguing the counter-point.

I want this discussion to remain honest, and the honest fact here is that Derek has made a significant number of specific predictions concerning "failure events", with dates associated, that can be objectively proven wrong.

There are two lines of discussion going on in this thread. One is the objective "here are the facts", such as "Star Citizen has missed several release dates", "Backers may not be able to receive a refund", etc. Then there's the subjective "this is how I feel about Star Citizen" discussion. You have people who have played the game, people who haven't played the game, people who have followed one side or the other of the debate over Star Citizen, all laying down their opinions. I'm not really interested in that part of the subjective discussion, because everyone is due their opinion, and a lot of opinion is colored by information or misinformation provided by others. Derek Smart is one of those individuals.

Consider what is currently the most recent Twitter post by Mr. Smart:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/736706877095088132

LOL!! Ship destroyed? No problem. Wait 20 mins or pay 12800 ($12.75) aUEC to respawn. This is going to be awesome!

So, here's the thing; aUEC contains no cash value in Star Citizen. You cannot purchase it, you cannot sell it. It is a test currency used in the test environment, that can only be earned by completing missions and objectives. Requiring a test server player to wait or earn in-game currency before they can retrieve another specific model of ship is the beginning of assigning value to ships, encouraging players to fly their ships with some degree of caution, and participate in objectives to earn more aUEC.

Thus this Twitter statement by Derek where he applies a real-world cash value to aUEC, is patently false, and specifically aimed at stirring up FUD where Star Citizen is confirmed, and is a fairly typical occurrence. This is the kind of thing that I'm interested in addressing in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see a lot of opinions colored by what I know to be misinformation as it pertains to Star Citizen, and much of it is due to blatantly false statements such as the one issued above. It's difficult to have an objective conversation weighing the facts versus one another (here are pros, here are cons, is SC worth?) when the facts are being bent by individuals with an agenda.

 

[DisturbedJim]

So true....What I finding really irritating is that the some of SC fans acting like if there was no DS everything will be just fine and all their trouble will be gone with the wind and the rest of"US"will never happened,like we was just an echo of DS mind....For god sake ppl. so many of us in here raise many concerns and point on potential CIG failures,mistakes and problems years before DS was writing his first critical blog,and this easily could be proven from net history until these days here or on the SC forum,ok maybe they could not see "US" all on the SC forum that often but that's probably because the "CULT" make sure to either burn us alive or to exile us forever......

You can argue all you like about whether you "naysayers" or Derek started making your speculative claims first, either way it does not matter,you and the others do not work for the company, and have not worked on a game of similar scope,you do not have access to their books/minutes or any other pertinent documentation on which to make a plausible prediction.In essence your a "Armchair Dev" and Derek well history shows he's not a Developer at all, he couldn't code his way out of bed,never mind actually make a functioning game.So his opinion is even more worthless and irrelevant than yours or the other naysayers.Not telling you to be quiet or anything,just don't expect anybody with a inkling of knowledge to give you or Derek any "credence" and by you I'm not alluding to you specifically but the collective whole that continue to make baseless assertions and predictions with zero tangible evidence.

FYI I have backed and play both ED and SC I have no preference for either, both are fun in their own way, and I have voiced my concers about both projects as well,for example ED's original pitch of a "Offline Mode" only to inform the backers it had been yanked months after the decision had been made,and for SC I have said both on the official forums and elsewhere that in hindsight hiring Illfonic was ill advised,given that the Frankfurt studio had to "fix" the mess Illfonic made.Now while I have no direct experience in CryEngine I have contributed code for a variety of mods for Skyrim(Falskarr and W.A.T.E.R are 2 such mods).I know different engine and all that,however it means I have more of a clue then the average "armchair expert" and unlike Derek the code I submit works and actually exists.

As somebody else pitched Derek made the same claims about David Braben and Elite Dangerous calling both Braben and Roberts digital dino's, saying that Elite Dangerous would not be delivered as pitched and so on and so on just have a look at this slightly humorous video and you'll see many of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au6mMl5A79Q.Which leads me to the issue you and anybody voicing even restrained and reasoned concern over either ED or SC are going to have and that's because Derek and his handful of goon minions backing him up or egging him on to use him as a lolcow have "poisoned the well".Because this fool has made this baseless claims ad nauseum any repeat or variation of them is going to be seen as "parroting Smart".Why do you think the gaming press as a whole ignores Smart and any respectable Publisher/Developer wants nothing to do with him or his IP's ? its because he is a cancer to the Industry anything he touches turns to dust and dies a horrible death.Quest Online were the last people foolish enough to contract his "expertise" and look what happened to Alganon.Granted it already had issues from being a copy/paste WoW clone, however since his "leadership" that game went from "endangered" to "extinct".As for LOD well that just enhances the argument that his opinion is worthless 7yrs in development 4yrs late and even now its not even functional,just watch any Youtube video of it including Jim Sterlings.Or Derek's claim that the reason Gamestar's reviewer had issues with LOD was and I kid you not "incompatible German Video Drivers".

Derek has no interest in what is in the best interests of the players of ED,SC or any other game for that matter,the simple reality is he despises Braben/Roberts or any other developer that makes a critical/financial "success" or a genre he arrogantly thinks is "his".Like any narcissist he craves attention,which he has been denied since Battlecruiser 3000AD turned out to be nought but Vaporware, nobody in the industry gives a rats ass about the man and that's the one thing he can't stand.Which is why he's here attempting to exploit the ED community by whipping up those ED backers who will hate SC no matter what and hoping they'll drag others into it.

By all means people should voice their concerns of Both ED and SC,however the first thing you need to do is kick Smart back to the gutter he crawled out from because as long as he is around trying to insert himself into the narrative any concerns you raise will fall on deaf ears to be frank.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I can understand him, normally this is a thread about talking about star citizen. But most of the threads here are drama. You want to post the newest news of this game and talk about it? Not possible here because you get instead spammed to death with the typical same cig bashing postings over and over again.

That is very frustating for people who just want to talk about this game. When was the last time that here people talked about what weapons they should use on their ships, or answering questions about the game or any other kind of normal talk you have in any other sc forums (which dont get closed every few weeks). Currently this here seems to be a sc hater vs sc fanboys thread with no end (Because you cannot change other peoples minds). I really would like to talk about this game, but currently it is impossible here. For me, you guys destroyed this thread, thanks!

I would love it if the mods would create a secound sc thread for normal disscussion and an another one for people who just want to discharge their daily hate on this game.
No problem with bad or good opinions about sc, but i think it goes to far if the disscussion get killed.

Well I for once finding this thread way more informative and truthful about the "burning" SC topics then what I was mostly able to read on forum back there....You are maybe right when you said that sometimes is lacking discussion about the actual game play but that is simply cause of the lacking of the actual game content by itself for this half of the decade of development......Maybe there was a time when some ppl. in here (myself included)overreact in their expression but that's probably due overall feeling about the current state of the game and their deep disappointment how CIG threat backers that "don't go with the flow".......

 

[lysan]

snip



So, here's the thing; aUEC contains no value in Star Citizen. You cannot purchase it, you cannot sell it. It is a test currency used in the test environment, that can only be earned by completing missions and objectives. Requiring a test server player to wait or earn in-game currency before they can retrieve another specific model of ship is the beginning of assigning value to ships, encouraging players to fly their ships with some degree of caution, and participate in objectives to earn more aUEC.

snip

Good, that is facts, I don't know how it works but if that is how it works, you're right and he is wrong.

 

[Monk]

LOL, I guess I'm a goon for asking pointed questions about development goals.

I want facts, is that so much to ask for? It seems to come in depressingly little quantities when it comes to this game.

Critics have few facts backing their claims.

Evangelists have few facts backing their claims.

garbage in, garbage out...

 

[303i]

For years the RSI forums has been attacking ED and FD, without any base in reality, PG is boring, ED is Boring, SC will be soooo much more bla bla bla.

What about, sorry ED is not my kind of game, i much more prefer this. great, no problem. So from now on I will start this new line of commenting.

You understand that statement goes both ways, right?

"For years the FDev forums have been attacking CIG and SC, without any basis in reality, "star citizen is copying elite", "the SC fanbase is responsible for ED's negative feedback", "Chris roberts is scam artist", "I didn't read the ToS before pledging and blame CIG for my own inability"

What about, sorry SC is not my kind of game, I prefer ED."

This thread would be fine if it were full of rational arguments and facts, but the average line of commentary goes:

"chris roberts promised me a $20 million space game in 2014, but then got $100 million and wanted to make a $100 million space game (which the community voted on and agreed with) HOW DARE HE"

"look at this dumb post on the RSI forums made by some SC fan. I'm sure glad there's never any dumb posts on the FDev forums made by ED fans"

"Wow a single employee left out of 400, the ship is sinking boys"

"That studio full of engineers that have worked with CryEngine for 7 years is incompetent and have no idea what they're doing"

 

[swfanatic717]

He is a toxic shill, paid or not by CIG he was only in the ED forum to advertise SC. Posting that crap on Reddit made me reevaluate him, and my opinion about him pretty fast.
I don't eat everything DS says or do, he is a master troll after all, but between all the "funny stuff" there are actually facts.

If that's the case, surely the only reason he "jumped off" (I presume from his continued existence that it was nothing too high up) is because his replacement(s) were ready for deployment?

I don't think many people buy into everything DS says, but that's certainly what CIG and SC fans would have people believe because it makes smearing detractors a lot easier when their positions are overgeneralized and then misrepresented.

I don't see a problem discussing the non-game elements of Star Citizen because as people mention, I could have conversations about the SC game with hardcore fans basically anywhere else. Conversely, this is the only place I can bring up their last financial reports and not only not get banned, but also have a productive discussion on what the numbers mean. I'd like to discuss cold hard facts more, but the truth is that there's extremely little concrete information about the current state of the SC project, which is quite possibly exactly how CIG wants it.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

UEC (cash currency) exists though, doesn't it?

aUEC is the test currency they are using in "the environment"... can't think of what else to call it without getting someone's back up.

My thought then is if that number is accurate when applied to UEC, why make it so big in "the environment" that it will be perceived as a drama hook? If all they want to do is test persistence and show peoples' funds counting down, pick a smaller number and avoid any possible cross-referencing?

SC has to succeed, so that all the PvPers can finally have a game they deserve.

 

[swfanatic717]

LOL, I guess I'm a goon for asking pointed questions about development goals.

I want facts, is that so much to ask for? It seems to come in depressingly little quantities when it comes to this game.

Critics have few facts backing their claims.

Evangelists have few facts backing their claims.

garbage in, garbage out...

Exactly this.

I don't think I can name another publicly funded 100 million dollar venture that has so little transparency when it comes to their business operations.

All the other arguments are so immaterial that people might as well be arguing over whether Chris Roberts or Ben Lesnick would win in a cage fight to the death.

 

[lysan]

You understand that statement goes both ways, right?

"For years the FDev forums have been attacking CIG and SC, without any basis in reality, "star citizen is copying elite", "the SC fanbase is responsible for ED's negative feedback", "Chris roberts is scam artist", "I didn't read the ToS before pledging and blame CIG for my own inability"

What about, sorry SC is not my kind of game, I prefer ED."

This thread would be fine if it were full of rational arguments and facts, but the average line of commentary goes:

"chris roberts promised me a $20 million space game in 2014, but then got $100 million and wanted to make a $100 million space game (which the community voted on and agreed with) HOW DARE HE"

"look at this dumb post on the RSI forums made by some SC fan. I'm sure glad there's never any dumb posts on the FDev forums made by ED fans"

"Wow a single employee left out of 400, the ship is sinking boys"

"That studio full of engineers that have worked with CryEngine for 7 years is incompetent and have no idea what they're doing"

Let me break that down for you.

"chris roberts promised me a $20 million space game in 2014, but then got $100 million and wanted to make a $100 million space game (which the community voted on and agreed with) HOW DARE HE"

Fact:
The "community" and that include all the backers at that point didn't vote for that, only a small segment of the active members on the forum did that, that is not representative.

"For years the FDev forums have been attacking CIG and SC, without any basis in reality, "star citizen is copying elite", "the SC fanbase is responsible for ED's negative feedback", "Chris roberts is scam artist", "I didn't read the ToS before pledging and blame CIG for my own inability"

Fact:

Yes, some did that, so that give you the right to be just like that? You do know that this was contributing to drive SC backers away from SC and into ED?
Copying or not, we really don't know, but I did say that at some point.
The ToS has been changed two times as far as I remember, why did they change the ToS? please explain I love to hear all the excuses.
I don't believe CR is a scam artist, if so is a very poor one. He is a very bad project manager, so maybe that should have been the argument.

Please give us some dates when we can expect anything ready for release, really, and then try to hit that date, just within 3 - 4 weeks. (its finish when its finish, is a poorly excuse honestly)

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Exactly this.

I don't think I can name another publicly funded 100 million dollar venture that has so little transparency when it comes to their business operations.

All the other arguments are so immaterial that people might as well be arguing over whether Chris Roberts or Ben Lesnick would win in a cage fight to the death.

I know who would win that fight