The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Taren Reichhardt]

Good joke

But i see DS the next 10 years still working on LoD.



This total thread is the time not worth. It went full sc hater vs sc fanboy. It feels like if you are not here to fight for a side you are wrong here. (Or of course for the entertainment how to see people crushing their heads).

I dont know whats wrong here, iam in a lot of other non-sc forums with sc threads and they managed to get normal talk about this game.

Well, a number of the contsant posters here are some a place called SA. I think the S stands for salty, as they constantly whine how CIG rejected their ideas. Quite contrary to the EVE Online developers who listened to them and lost 2/3 of their player base.

Also some features of Star Citizen rub them in the wrong way. In 2011 EVE Online attempted an integration of first person avatar. A prototype was put into the game and then the salty people felt that it distracted too much from the core gameplay (ganks and scams) and so they initiated a trolling campaign until development was abandoned.

That another company is building such a feature and rejects their collective ... wisdom... just rubs them in the wrong way.

Edit:

Once E: D starts putting in first person avatars for players we will see whines and trolling attempts like the never before. As someone else said. Poppy cutters. People who think of themselves as edgy but are just haters of anything that is not mediocre.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Well, a number of the contsant posters here are some a place called SA. I think the S stands for salty, as they constantly whine how CIG rejected their ideas. Quite contrary to the EVE Online developers who listened to them and lost 2/3 of their player base.

Also some features of Star Citizen rub them in the wrong way. In 2011 EVE Online attempted an integration of first person avatar. A prototype was put into the game and then the salty people felt that it distracted too much from the core gameplay (ganks and scams) and so they initiated a trolling campaign until development was abandoned.

That another company is building such a feature and rejects their collective ... wisdom... just rubs them in the wrong way.

Edit:

Once E: D starts putting in first person avatars for players we will see whines and trolling attempts like the never before. As someone else said. Poppy cutters. People who think of themselves as edgy but are just haters of anything that is not mediocre.

This is to discuss star citizen. If you can't comprehend that. Please don't derail the thread. Nobody cares what you think about other websites or other games or some video or some other games developer.

When is 2.4 hitting the PU? Is it going to be tomorrow, is there going to be a ToS revision? I sound like the voice over guy from Soap!

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

This is to discuss star citizen. If you can't comprehend that. Please don't derail the thread. Nobody cares what you think about other websites or other games or some video or some other games developer.

When is 2.4 hitting the PU? Is it going to be tomorrow, is there going to be a ToS revision? I sound like the voice over guy from Soap!

Nice try but it was a response to one of your pals. Please read it again... slowly.

 

[Barking_Mad]

That the game will make no progress is a very cynical assertion. If you would take a honest look at the developments during the last year you will notice that it made great strides. One year ago we had the Arena Commander with combat and some basic landing mechanics. Right now we have the Crusader system.

I think you are trolling here with the comment about Derek Smart buying up the assets. He has never build anything of critical acclaim and his coding skills are 20 years behind today's standards as his releases have shown. About his finances, I doubt that he has the money to buy up any assets. Development of his own game is stalled. Likely because he ran out of money already.

My guess is that he is baiting CIG to sue him. He probably believes that he can win an out of court settlement and run with some of the backers money.

That's some accusation right there.

 

[ianw]

Is there a reason why they add other stuff whilst the fundamental stuff seems to stay broken release after release some of it since the end of last year?

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Nice try but it was a response to one of your pals. Please read it again... slowly.

Quit the personal attacks. I am trying to discuss a game. You are contributing nothing since you arrived straight after that developer guy. All you talk about is how much he lies and how wrong he is. Try talking about the game and people might read what you post.

Your post come across as smug and combative.

 

[Voivod]

Well, a number of the contsant posters here are some a place called SA. I think the S stands for salty, as they constantly whine how CIG rejected their ideas. Quite contrary to the EVE Online developers who listened to them and lost 2/3 of their player base.

I read that thread daily and I've yet to see them being salty about "CIG regecting their ideas". Could you provide some examples of this?
All I see is them pointing their fingers/laughing and facepalming at SC "gameplay" as they call it while making fun of CIG management, especially Sandi's acting expertise.

Could you also provide me with some examples of how CCP listened to Goons? Especially since the person in charge of sov mechanics is ex-PL.

 

[Rolan]

Although I'm not a huge fan of some of the ship designs, the detail in their models is terrific.

Which one you like the most and which one you dislike most ?
My aurora is a beautiful ship, flying through space like a brick.

My personal take on the seamless planetary landing video is that it was disingenuous. When the ship dropped out of Quantum (or whatever SC call it?) next to the small Orbital station, that was exactly the point in ED where you drop out of SuperCruise. the fact that the SC planet is tiny in comparison to most ED planets made it easier to camouflage that.

That's not how quantum works. At least right now in the alpha.

In what way was the video disingenuous? CIG is using a streaming technology. QuantumDrive is in no form some kind of 'loading screen' like SuperCruise is in Elite Dangerous. It is all seamless streamed while traveling.

Exactly. In fact this has been seeing and tested by many people. In quantum you just go from point A to B in the space with a guuzyfuzzy effect. Nothing more.

I don't feel it's worth discussing this whole topic with the SC Defense Force, as it were. I bring up the implications of UEC purchases in the FINAL GAME, and they respond with "it's ok, see in the Alpha you currently can't buy aUEC..."

They should keep UEC for cosmetic purchases only, and make a new in-game currency that's only gainable by playing for the game-related stuff.

Well... they can't change that. Most of us have already said that we don't like everything CIG does... nor every company. And is not easy to talk about the economics and how it will affect the idea of buying money ingame(limited amount) without the economy(the full cycle) working. At least for me.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

I read that thread daily and I've yet to see them being salty about "CIG regecting their ideas". Could you provide some examples of this?
All I see is them pointing their fingers/laughing and facepalming at SC "gameplay" as they call it while making fun of CIG management, especially Sandi's acting expertise.

Could you also provide me with some examples of how CCP listened to Goons? Especially since the person in charge of sov mechanics is ex-PL.

That is exactly the point. The thread decended into <evading the forum swear filter> of bashing Star Citizen development.

Maybe it is time for a more mature and rational discussion, hmm?

 

[ianw]

That is exactly the point. The thread decended into <evading the forum swear filter>. of bashing Star Citizen development.

Maybe it is time for a more mature and rational discussion, hmm?

The thread was doing just fine before your arrival and I've no doubt it will continue doing fine when you get bored and leave.

Maybe if they start to show real progress with all the stuff that doesn't work - instead of adding another line of beachwear or something the discussion may change all by itself.

 

[VidarSnipes]

In what way was the video disingenuous? CIG is using a streaming technology. QuantumDrive is in no form some kind of 'loading screen' like SuperCruise is in Elite Dangerous. It is all seamless streamed while traveling.

Transition between supercruise and normal space is used mainly for matchmaking and USS spawning. You can go between a moon and their parent planet without going in supercruise, you can also drop out of supercruise way outside the station and reach it in normal space. QD looks and feel better right now, but we don't know how will it work with instancing, as right now Crusader is purely server-based environment.

 

[Voivod]

That is exactly the point. The thread decended into a circle-j... of bashing Star Citizen development.

Yeah but your explanation for why this happens is wrong. You should try a different perspective and try and understand why do you think they like to mock this game so much.

Maybe it is time for a more mature and rational discussion, hmm?

Every other SC thread is more mature, which is kind of the charm of SA. Being able to say whatever/whenever.
It's quite humorous and entertaining unless you're emotionaly invested in the game they mock.
That's not to say that there's not plenty of valid critisism and information on the game.

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

... When stretch goals were completed, emails were sent out to every backer about it. In the letters from the chairman linked in those emails, polls on what players wanted next were provided.

Not everyone voted, but every backer received an email link to those polls.

So, what exactly is it you're suggesting they should have done?

I am several tenths of pages back (wow) and this has already been probably discussed to death so apologies.

Polls are in no way a binding agreement between any parties here. Wether "yay or nay" in a poll, the decision to enlarge scope, add to it, and hence delay the release (compared to what was promised for delivery in 2014) is 100% exclusively CIG´s responsibility and decision.

A "poll" was neither required nor sufficient to justify any decision on enlarging scope and delay release. First simply CIG decided to increase scope and delay release, and then it updated the ToS to suit that plan.

CIG could have very well delivered all the promised content at the time in 2014 and then gradually build upon it more scope from there on. But it didnt. It was all 100% on CIG.

 

[FerinexuS]

The thread was doing fine if you consider being blocked every 2 weeks is doing fine thread.

This could be a nice place to discuss the game and it's mechanics with healthy and logical assessments but always seems to derive into mockery and hate, being it about the game or the game employers, I think sometimes it reaches epic levels of bitterness motivated by people that don't really have played the game or have any interest about it.

Seeing people repeatedly saying how they would like to see the game crash and burn just for the fun of it and being complimented about it it's really telling about some personalities... And knowing that even though they do not represent the ED community whatsoever it still looks bad in the eye of the passing by viewers.

And when it's said that "there is no game to discuss that's why there is only mockery" it's the very telling evidence that these people don't even play or haven't played the game.
It's reducing the work of hundreds to nothing and as obnoxious as just labeling ED "boring" for the sake of it when there's so much more to it.

Focus on being constructive instead of destructive, doesn't need to be positive all it needs to do is add to the discussion in a positive way, not necessarily about positive things.

UEC or ingame currency is their way to monetize the game without a subscription and also fight gold selling trough a official and safe channel.

I don't like payshops and the idea of someone getting an advantage because they are richer than me, but I also don't like people goldselling and skewing the market so I understand that option for star citizen.

In ED it doesn't matter because, unfortunately, we can't trade between us.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

CIG could have very well delivered all the promised content at the time in 2014 and then gradually build upon it more scope from there on. But it didnt. It was all 100% on CIG.

Yes and no. They could have stopped adding stretch goals early, removing the first person avatar gameplay or postponing it would have certainly helped to speed up the development. The downside is that it would have created a number of other problems later on. As all ships would have to be re-designed to accomodate first person gameplay, which would have been much more of a nightmare.

In any case the 2014 release date was way to optimistic but I am happy as long as development continues, which it certainly will.

An example from Elite Dangerous. Small fighter craft as guardians for larger ships are planned for an update late this year. I already see a number of problems with that. As the game play for this kind of ships is at the moment somewhat sub-standard.

The Imperial Cutter was advertised as a warship, but the actual game play forces it into a heavily shielded trader role. The bays on the side are also too small for any small fighter ship.

So essentially the Cutter and Corvette would have to be at least partially re-designed. Both ship model and gameplay wise. Now imagine you want to put first person game play into there as well. While the hulls look nice from the outside, it will be an entirely different level of complexity to design them with the player walking on the inside in mind. Now add features like local physics grid and you see some of the headaches that are troubling the SC development.

Still I am confident the problems are solvable and the results will be worth the wait. IMHO what can be seen in 2.4. is already worth waiting.

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Yes and no. They could have stopped adding stretch goals early, removing the first person avatar gameplay or postponing it would have certainly helped to speed up the development. The downside is that it would have created a number of other problems later on. As all ships would have to be re-designed to accomodate first person gameplay, which would have been much more of a nightmare.

In any case the 2014 release date was way to optimistic but I am happy as long as development continues, which it certainly will.

I am not doubting the difficulties and challenges of a long term multi year development, ensuring you design for the future to try to accommodate as much upcoming scope as possible without the need to re-engineer. FDEV also knows full well what that means I assume, and yet they released a base game design in 2014 from where they are doing precisely that, building upon it. CIG could have taken a similar road for their scope, adapting/preparing it for the long term, and fulfil their kickstarter and early day promises for 2014, but didnt.

Either way the fact remains that the decision to enlarge and postpone was still 100% CIG´s. And polls have little to do with it, except to allow CIG some level semblant of community acquiescence for PR´s sake.

 

[ianw]

The thread was doing fine if you consider being blocked every 2 weeks is doing fine thread.

This could be a nice place to discuss the game and it's mechanics with healthy and logical assessments but always seems to derive into mockery and hate, being it about the game or the game employers, I think sometimes it reaches epic levels of bitterness motivated by people that don't really have played the game or have any interest about it.

Seeing people repeatedly saying how they would like to see the game crash and burn just for the fun of it and being complimented about it it's really telling about some personalities... And knowing that even though they do not represent the ED community whatsoever it still looks bad in the eye of the passing by viewers.

And when it's said that "there is no game to discuss that's why there is only mockery" it's the very telling evidence that these people don't even play or haven't played the game.
It's reducing the work of hundreds to nothing and as obnoxious as just labeling ED "boring" for the sake of it when there's so much more to it.

Focus on being constructive instead of destructive, doesn't need to be positive all it needs to do is add to the discussion in a positive way, not necessarily about positive things.

UEC or ingame currency is their way to monetize the game without a subscription and also fight gold selling trough a official and safe channel.

I don't like payshops and the idea of someone getting an advantage because they are richer than me, but I also don't like people goldselling and skewing the market so I understand that option for star citizen.

In ED it doesn't matter because, unfortunately, we can't trade between us.

I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread wishing the game to crash and burn.

When the first version of this thread started all those years ago there were some detractors but the thread was generally a lot more positive with people discussing all aspects of what was to come.

I was as positive about SC as I am about ED.

but after years of let downs , constant revisionism and missing of deadlines goals targets or whatever else they are currently being called I'd prefer to talk about what is rather than hopes dreams wishes and theorycrafting.

 

[Stigbob]

Star citizen my constructive idea :

Stop wasting time and resources on re-shoots, reworks, rewrite's of mo-cap, in game shops, new concept sales, sub par FPS, daft spur of the moment promises. The game's flight model is awful this isn't acceptable in a space ship flying game and is effectively the first hurdle. Concentrate on fixing it until it lives up to the name BDSSE with good cross-controller support (even mouse).

Now start working on pointless frippery like space fleece shopping.

Reap the benefits of not being a complete laughing stock.

 

[Voivod]

Seeing people repeatedly saying how they would like to see the game crash and burn just for the fun of it and being complimented about it it's really telling about some personalities...

Really? I've been a frequent poster for a while here and I don't remember anyone saying they want to see the game crash and burn, let alone "repeatedly".
Could you provide some examples?

And knowing that even though they do not represent the ED community whatsoever it still looks bad in the eye of the passing by viewers.

People could take a single post and stigmatize an entire community out of it if they wanted it.The SC community (especially our newly arrived fellows from /r/dereksmart) seem to hate everythign and everyone who doesn't agree with their glorious opinion of SC. Literally EVERYONE doesn't know game development or has been brainswashed by dsmart.

Focus on being constructive instead of destructive, doesn't need to be positive all it needs to do is add to the discussion in a positive way, not necessarily about positive things.

It all started with Croberts and CIG's pompous comments about saving us from consoles, making the best game in this dimension, re-invigorating the FPS scene with Star Marine and countless other arguments. It clearly affected numerous players/posters/crusaders which resulted in a reactional posting frenzy from people who didn't buy into the dream.
Do you really expect people not to react when people say "The game you're playing now, is boring, my game is going to be 45 times better when it's released and it's already 23 times better in it's pre-alpha form". That's not even taking into account the majority of people who are moslty concerned citizens who pledged years ago for a game they're not close to getting yet.

UEC or ingame currency is their way to monetize the game without a subscription and also fight gold selling trough a official and safe channel.

But they already offer a subscriptions for access to information?

I don't like payshops and the idea of someone getting an advantage because they are richer than me, but I also don't like people goldselling and skewing the market so I understand that option for star citizen.

You don't like payshops but selling everything for cash is ok because no gold sellers?
Yeah I guess having the developer of the game being the only gold seller, solves the problem of gold sellers.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

Star citizen my constructive idea :

Stop wasting time and resources on re-shoots, reworks, rewrite's of mo-cap, in game shops, new concept sales, sub par FPS, daft spur of the moment promises. The game's flight model is awful this isn't acceptable in a space ship flying game and is effectively the first hurdle. Concentrate on fixing it until it lives up to the name BDSSE with good cross-controller support (even mouse).

Now start working on pointless frippery like space fleece shopping.

Reap the benefits of not being a complete laughing stock.

Not a very constructive response. First person avatar game play also means the ability to shop in game. Character customization via clothing is also a very important core element of any MMO that features such game play. The flight model is fine for the most part. Some ships handle better then others but overall I enjoy the fast turning of even medium sized ships more then the 'takes forever to turn 180 degrees on anything not super small' we see in E: D.

I guess our mileage varies here but for quick action the Arena Commander is already quite enjoyable, but not exactly well balanced.