Oh I know. I wanted to see his response, and was only met with the same level of gibberish. Sad really.
The Star Citizen Thread v 4
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Oh I know. I wanted to see his response, and was only met with the same level of gibberish. Sad really.
I think their referral program is an exciting way to make friends and bring more people into the exciting world of Star Citizen. It's not annoying at all and I'm really glad people are talking about it here on the Frontier forum, hopefully you guys can give us your referral codes so we can make that Gladius a reality.
My favorite ship is the one with you can put the space garden attachment on and fantasize about growing space plants. I don't think we'll be waiting many years to actually see farming functionality, clearly the magic Germans can do it. I mean, they were so good at bolstering CryEngine's networking capabilities to handle CR's demands for 100 ship battles.
It's strange they never thought to improve the networking while actually working for Crytek. I guess CR just inspires employees to go above and beyond.
Pretty cute attempt, guys. What's your favorite ship indeed. Trying to control the flow of online discussions about Star Citizen is a fairly futile task, the thing is a car crash and naturally folks are going to comment on the very silly stuff associated with it... four and a half years in, with a clothing shop trumpeted as a major advice? Expect some giggles as "the first step on the path to persistence" isn't greeted with elaborate fanfares and rousing speeches. Alas, nobody will give Crobber the key to software city for being able to save items in a game four and a half years in.
It's interesting how damn PERSONAL it gets. I quite like Elite I suppose but can't imagine becoming a door to door advocate for it to get free paintjobs.
(I'm a hypocrite, of course. I did time for extremely aggravated assault on a critic of Super Bomberman)
My favorite ship is the one with you can put the space garden attachment on and fantasize about growing space plants. I don't think we'll be waiting many years to actually see farming functionality, clearly the magic Germans can do it. I mean, they were so good at bolstering CryEngine's networking capabilities to handle CR's demands for 100 ship battles.
It's strange they never thought to improve the networking while actually working for Crytek. I guess CR just inspires employees to go above and beyond.
Pretty cute attempt, guys. What's your favorite ship indeed. Trying to control the flow of online discussions about Star Citizen is a fairly futile task, the thing is a car crash and naturally folks are going to comment on the very silly stuff associated with it... four and a half years in, with a clothing shop trumpeted as a major advice? Expect some giggles as "the first step on the path to persistence" isn't greeted with elaborate fanfares and rousing speeches. Alas, nobody will give Crobber the key to software city for being able to save items in a game four and a half years in.
It's interesting how damn PERSONAL it gets. I quite like Elite I suppose but can't imagine becoming a door to door advocate for it to get free paintjobs.
(I'm a hypocrite, of course. I did time for extremely aggravated assault on a critic of Super Bomberman)
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That's the third time you've posted the same link to the same poll, disregarding points raised that the poll data doesn't show any consensus or agreement in any of the options, since not even a simple majority agrees on any one option despite each participant being allowed to select 3 options. Members of the active SC community were given 3 votes each and still failed to put any of the options above 40% support, which suggests that there is no majority support from the community for any of the expansion options.
If anything, giving people 3 choices each instead of 1 should have made it easier for any one option to hit 50%, but that still didn't happen. All this shows is that CIG polled the community and then promptly disregarded the results, opting to proceed with their own plan instead, and certainly doesn't support your assertion that the changes were voted and agreed upon by the community.
You are, of course, welcome to continue to block/ignore this counterpoint at your convenience, but that would, in your words, "only show you are not interested in a civil discourse", which begs the question of whether you still retain the right to call people out for doing the same.
Another point that often goes conveniently unaddressed by CIG supporters is the following:
I like to think that I'm being objective about considering SC, and questioning all the sources is an essential part of that thought process. For example, I think CIG's 2013 UK accounts are a credible source of information regarding the project's health despite the fact they reveal practically nothing, because they're legally mandated and any falsification would be in breach of the law. Similarly, in a project that most people agree has slipped behind schedule with regards to the addition of new content and features, why should anyone believe that the developer's media and reports are accurate and not exaggerated, particularly when the people who write and publish these media have a vested interest in delivering only positive reports?
To that end, if the possibility cannot be discounted that CIG media is no more credible or accurate than a North Korean newspaper, why should anyone believe any of the content in it, and is there any point in citing any of it when backing up a claim?
You are, of course, welcome to ignore this point as well, at the same cost as mentioned earlier.
This is more subjective, but can a piece of software really be called an Alpha just by the developer naming it that? It's well-known that one of the worst practices in the gaming industry is for game developers to monetize bad/unfinished software using the Alpha/Beta label to deflect criticism by lowering consumers' expectations for a product the developers have little to no intention of completing properly. Here's a video of YouTuber John Bain aka TotalBiscuit talking about the problem.
This is a lot more subjective (and frankly a bit off-topic anyway), and an argument about that would be so immaterial that it may as well be about whether Chris Roberts or Sandi Gardner would win in an air guitar competition, so I'm not going to bother to discuss this further. Make of that what you will.
Now for something more light-hearted...
Gladius. It's elegant in its simplicity and crazy maneuverable (at least right now). Designed in the UK, one of the first examples of a successful SC stretch goal done right (I'll overlook that CIG then sold it back to backers) and an vestige of a time when Star Citizen was a lot simpler.
Unfortunately (or otherwise), as I have other commitments to attend to IRL, I can't stay glued to this forum, and shall now take a break for several hours. It's the healthy thing to do.
Ah yes I forget Derek breaking your hugbox and echo chamber with reality is "being toxic".Cry whine and moan all you like Derek fact is:
1)You have never developed a functioning game PERIOD!
2)Your 2 PhD's are clearly fake(You couldn't tell the difference between a shoe and a CPU and you sure as can't count.
3)Everything you have touched has turned belly up including Alganon.
4)Your 15th attempt to pass off Battlecruiser 3000AD as a "new game" has failed like everything else in your life.
5)The more you open your mouth you slide from zero credibility into negative credibility.
You should spend what little money you have left on finishing that vaporware you have spent 27yrs failing to finish.Oh and give Leagle a walk down to the post office/State Loony Ward(The Federal Building you keep yammering on about walking into) and remember don't skimp on the straight jacket or the padded cell Derek wouldn't want you to fracture your own skull trying to get the single braincell between your ears to come alive.
As did I.
A shame they didn't just avoid all this need for magic beans and German Skype sessions and just purpose built their own engine that could pull off more of what was claimed for this project. Why didn't he? His teams usually did before, that's how they were able to innovate and push PCs, right? By actually innovating. Those Origin kids were the best! What does a visionary need with a dated FPS engine? What does god need with a starship? I mean...
STAR CITIZEN MEMORY LANE
Dateline: 11.3.12
"One of the reasons I sort of left the business for a while was because I was feeling increasingly disconnected from my audience," he said. The breaking point came when the 12 to 18 months development cycles Roberts was used to stretched into a four-year slog with Freelancer. "Spending that many years disconnected from your audience, sort of working off by yourself, wasn’t creatively fun for me."
To help keep Star Citizen development from dragging on that long, Roberts will be starting with the pre-made CryEngine 3 for Star Citizen. That's a first for Roberts, who has always built new engines for his games from scratch in the past. "This time around, I look at it [and] say, 'I could put a team together, I could build a really good engine, but that’s going to take me two years.' During that time I could be using resources and time to improve an existing engine and also build the features I want specific to my game... If I’m making a movie, I’m not inventing a camera before I use it.”
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...berts-discusses-upping-the-ante-on-pc-gaming/
It's definitely an advantage working with an incredibly dated by cutting edge game development standards engine modded by a revolving door of programmers going in and out of CIG and prrrrobably not providing much documentation as they are told to clear their desks and take their piles back to Pittsburgh. Something something local physics grids something something. The initial project scope changed pretty quickly as it was clear they had way more money and could've spent the two years CR claimed building their own engine especially for SC. Instead they bought furniture, contractors that produced useless work, and refactored themselves sick in the corner while binging and purging on fan-sent booze.
Instead -- four and a half years in, they have an engine that can't pull off half of what they aim for it. How many more years to mod it, then? Will they just quietly admit defeat on the networking front? They could get away with saying Squadron 42 would go out as planned but the PU would be delayed two years to be upgraded to a custom engine, CE5, UE4, or Lesnick 3.1 for Workgroups. Fans would defend it and there would be a game in the meantime. They might even be able to pull off some of the feats they claim! It's certainly not going to happen on a broken CryEngine mod tech demo.
STAR CITIZEN FOREVER
Remember... "The breaking point came when the 12 to 18 months development cycles Roberts was used to stretched into a four-year slog." Boy, wouldn't want that to happen again, huh? Things will tend to turn "stale," after more than 3 years, said a famous game developer who understands game development who totally is named Chris Roberts.
The disconnection continues...
STAR CITIZEN MEMORY LANE
Dateline: 11.3.12
"One of the reasons I sort of left the business for a while was because I was feeling increasingly disconnected from my audience," he said. The breaking point came when the 12 to 18 months development cycles Roberts was used to stretched into a four-year slog with Freelancer. "Spending that many years disconnected from your audience, sort of working off by yourself, wasn’t creatively fun for me."
To help keep Star Citizen development from dragging on that long, Roberts will be starting with the pre-made CryEngine 3 for Star Citizen. That's a first for Roberts, who has always built new engines for his games from scratch in the past. "This time around, I look at it [and] say, 'I could put a team together, I could build a really good engine, but that’s going to take me two years.' During that time I could be using resources and time to improve an existing engine and also build the features I want specific to my game... If I’m making a movie, I’m not inventing a camera before I use it.”
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...berts-discusses-upping-the-ante-on-pc-gaming/
It's definitely an advantage working with an incredibly dated by cutting edge game development standards engine modded by a revolving door of programmers going in and out of CIG and prrrrobably not providing much documentation as they are told to clear their desks and take their piles back to Pittsburgh. Something something local physics grids something something. The initial project scope changed pretty quickly as it was clear they had way more money and could've spent the two years CR claimed building their own engine especially for SC. Instead they bought furniture, contractors that produced useless work, and refactored themselves sick in the corner while binging and purging on fan-sent booze.
Instead -- four and a half years in, they have an engine that can't pull off half of what they aim for it. How many more years to mod it, then? Will they just quietly admit defeat on the networking front? They could get away with saying Squadron 42 would go out as planned but the PU would be delayed two years to be upgraded to a custom engine, CE5, UE4, or Lesnick 3.1 for Workgroups. Fans would defend it and there would be a game in the meantime. They might even be able to pull off some of the feats they claim! It's certainly not going to happen on a broken CryEngine mod tech demo.
STAR CITIZEN FOREVER
Remember... "The breaking point came when the 12 to 18 months development cycles Roberts was used to stretched into a four-year slog." Boy, wouldn't want that to happen again, huh? Things will tend to turn "stale," after more than 3 years, said a famous game developer who understands game development who totally is named Chris Roberts.
The disconnection continues...
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I love... but do not yet own a Gladius. It is so gorgeous. I have the Freelancer Max and Cutlass Red.
In ED I LOVE the Diamondbacks ... just think they are super sexy
In ED I LOVE the Diamondbacks ... just think they are super sexy
Well the first time was in response to you asking for it, the second time was to clarify that 3 options could be voted for (because I saw you post some confusion about the top vote and 1 option), and the 3rd time was in response to Derek.
How were the results disregarded? I mean, you have a point, there was no clear majority, but that just meant that there was a pretty even spread of excitement across certain objectives. I don't believe they disregarded the results at all, that poll was posted on June 28th, 2013, and if you look at the funding page starting at 15 million (the first stretch goal to be hit after that poll), the rest of the stretch goals seem to align pretty well with the poll results.
Not my own words, you quoted another poster there.
I think I was being pretty civil there. Derek ignored a number of posts by me pointing out flaws in his arguments and past predictions, and then wanted me to respond to a particular one of his posts. I declined until he wanted to address some of my hanging counterpoints. I won't be baited or led around by the nose. If he wants to debate Star Citizen with me, it'll have to be for tat. (EDIT - Really? That word is censored? [haha])
You may not see them as credible, but as someone who actually reads through them each month and gets to see what's discussed get implemented, or pushed back, as it may be, I have a fair degree of trust in them. Are they a public-facing, optimistic outlook? Of course they are. I develop software (not game development, programming database and auditing systems) as part of my job. I know when you get stuck on something stupid for a week, the last thing you want to do is go into detail with your bosses about it, much less the public. So do I expect them to share every bit of dirty laundry, certainly not, and I'm willing to take the reports at face value.
That all said, when someone makes a baseless or controversial claim regarding the project, what other recourse do I have to counter-point except to cite the resource I have readily available?
Why would I? You seem to think I'm afraid to discuss the "hard questions" here, and I'm not.
Interesting fact, I worked with John (then TotalHalibut) as the "lead codemonkey" on PlanetSide Radio (for the first PlanetSide), oh, 12 years ago. Well before he became famous in WoWRadio and afterwards. I lost touch with him after we shut down because the RIAA were being oles, but I knew he was going somewhere as he was a great radio personality. I still have a great deal of respect for him.
No, I'd say a piece of software is Alpha based upon the actual software definition, which, loosely, is "non-feature-complete". Beta is supposed to be "feature-complete but not release-ready". And yeah, the term gets thrown around in ways that it wasn't back in the day.
My cousin was a lead game designer in the 1990s for Broderbund. He was behind many of their most successful titles. Back then, he used to mail me Alpha/Beta build floppies and CDs, and I used to test the games out and call him up with feedback. Sometimes they wouldn't even install. It was bad! I remember a version of one of the Carmen Sandiego games where all the male characters spoke with female voices and vice versa. Those were true beta video games. I think the first "public" beta I entered was for Earth and Beyond, and that was fairly buggy as well, though it was at least fairly feature-complete in terms of game mechanics.
Star Citizen is indeed an Alpha though. It's missing some very major game mechanics. That said, it's very strange... it's a polished Alpha. Typically in Alpha you're missing tons of assets because you don't have players actually playing it. Who cares about all that art and junk, it'll come sooner or later anyhow. But in Star Citizen's Alpha, you can run around fully-textured stations with all of their particle effects and all (alright most) of the collision detection is there, etc.
So what do you call it? I know people love to do the pre-Alpha thing... ehhh... pre-Alpha is really supposed to be reserved for the "proof of concept" kind of builds. So anyhow, back to the point, I agree, the terms have been thrown around and abused to the point that there's not a lot of meaning to them to the gaming public anyhow. They all think Betas in actual game development you can consistently play and enjoy, when realistically the Betas they are playing on Steam are really just RC games undergoing server stress-testing.
Moot point anyhow, Sean Tracy and Steve Bender already stole that show. (If it doesn't start at the right point, skip to 11 minutes 40 seconds)
[video=youtube;WvlnG45Kois]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvlnG45Kois&t=11m40s[/video]
Ugh, it's like driving a pickup on ice. Can't stand all that tail drift!
I'm heading to bed, and tomorrow will be a busy day for me. If you care to continue this civilized debate, I'll probably be around at the end of the day. Or I may, as you indicate, try to find a healthier way to spend the evening of my vacation day by doing something other than arguing with people on the internet.
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i gotta ask electrofreak but how much time do you spend on this thread and do you reply to every post criticising star citizen? I have played it on a free weekend and thought it was a janky mess than has no fun in it at all. That's a honest opinion. When i see the amount of time spent and money they have i just don't see any thing good for me to buy into it.
If CIG can keep that level of fidelity and (imho) give more of a sense of mass to the ships, then SQ42 and SC could yet turn out to be pretty decent. (Yes I know the video isn't that new)
Although I'm not a huge fan of some of the ship designs, the detail in their models is terrific. So, whilst acccepting that pretty graphics alone do not make a great game, there are clear signs that talented tekkies and artists are hard at work.
There was a very interesting info-graphic a while back showing how the time spent in alpha normally maps to beta and then release for typical large/comparable games, and based on that I've set my alarm clock for mid 2017, with quite a few hopes pinned on Erin to force through delivery.
As for the submarine issue, I view that as funny not fatal, and a pretty normal d'oh moment you get in almost any project larger than 'hello world'.
Sorry to go off topic and sound vaguely positive... as you were ;-)
Good question. It really comes down how much content will be in 2.5 and how many technical hurdles CIG faces. There will be delays for sure, but not as long as 2.5 as this update included the extremely important ground work for further persistence patches.
I guess Nyx is coming along. There is a number of things that are probably coming online soon. I would be surprised if we don't see the integration of planetary landing maps into the persistent universe soon. After that happened probably further planetary maps will become available and then NPC AI will be activated on station and planets. I can only guess here.
While we are making wild guesses, I think the game will continue chasing it's own tail in development hell with no substantial improvement. Interest will dwindle as other titles make genuine progress for less time and money. Eventually 2017-2019 SQ42 will be released to the horror of anyone who's ever been behind a joystick. Star Citizen itself will get cancelled due to the customer and critical reception of SQ42 and the assets will be sold off.
Derek Smart will buy up the art (but abandon all the code) and use it in Battlecitizen4000AD to great critical acclaim.
My personal take on the seamless planetary landing video is that it was disingenuous. When the ship dropped out of Quantum (or whatever SC call it?) next to the small Orbital station, that was exactly the point in ED where you drop out of SuperCruise. the fact that the SC planet is tiny in comparison to most ED planets made it easier to camouflage that.
Also, that was the point when the great "Oh, we didn't mean EVERYTHING would be hand crafted, hahaha, how silly of you to think that! It would be crazy talk to state that all 100 systems would be handcrafted, we only meant the landing areas!" revisionism kicked in.
Prior to that, one of the big jousts between the two "rival camps" was: "400 Billion Planets!"... "Yeah but they all look the same due to PG, our 100 are all hand crafted high fidelity beauty!" And round and round it went.
Then a day before Horizons launches, all of a sudden we see CiG drop a revelation of a video, a fully PG planet with a long seen hand crafted landing area asset pritt-sticked onto it.
That was the point I lost the idea that SC could be an impressive alternate to what was already commercially launched.
Also, that was the point when the great "Oh, we didn't mean EVERYTHING would be hand crafted, hahaha, how silly of you to think that! It would be crazy talk to state that all 100 systems would be handcrafted, we only meant the landing areas!" revisionism kicked in.
Prior to that, one of the big jousts between the two "rival camps" was: "400 Billion Planets!"... "Yeah but they all look the same due to PG, our 100 are all hand crafted high fidelity beauty!" And round and round it went.
Then a day before Horizons launches, all of a sudden we see CiG drop a revelation of a video, a fully PG planet with a long seen hand crafted landing area asset pritt-sticked onto it.
That was the point I lost the idea that SC could be an impressive alternate to what was already commercially launched.
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At the end of Alpha, software is feature complete. It's generally accepted there will be game breaking bugs/crashes. I think it's fair to say that whilst SC is playable, it's is feature incomplete and has game breaking bugs/crashes. Ergo it's at best an Alpha product.
I don't feel it's worth discussing this whole topic with the SC Defense Force, as it were. I bring up the implications of UEC purchases in the FINAL GAME, and they respond with "it's ok, see in the Alpha you currently can't buy aUEC..."
They should keep UEC for cosmetic purchases only, and make a new in-game currency that's only gainable by playing for the game-related stuff.
They should keep UEC for cosmetic purchases only, and make a new in-game currency that's only gainable by playing for the game-related stuff.
Good joke
But i see DS the next 10 years still working on LoD.
This total thread is the time not worth. It went full sc hater vs sc fanboy. It feels like if you are not here to fight for a side you are wrong here. (Or of course for the entertainment how to see people crushing their heads).
I dont know whats wrong here, iam in a lot of other non-sc forums with sc threads and they managed to get normal talk about this game.
First of all, why is this strange to you?
You seem to have forgotten that they're selling eye-candy. This is their source of income, of course they're going to concetrate on that.
They literally bought the engine, started making assets for it and THEN decided they needed to change the engine.
They never stopped making assets which seems like a good idea concidering they've promised a bazilion ships and 100+ systems.
Secondly, polish doesn't just mean graphics.
Literally none of the gameplay mechanics feel polished, let alone at any considerable development stage where "polish" is the next step.
No idea why you'd mention collision detection considering it's the main reason for humorous bugs in SC right now.
Doesn't cry-engine have a built-in system for collision detection? UE4/Unity do and it's very easy to implement as far as I remember.
Granted with the amount of modification they've done to CryEngine and all those complex local physics grids, I'm sure it's a tad more complicated now... but they've had 4+ years to get it right.
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There's always people critisizing it and ALWAYS white knights with swords drawn as well.
Nice surmising of it all, and I agree.
Oh and you forget, CIG "our PG will blow anyone away, you have never seen this before" statement LOL sure I can't freking wait to see that uber PG from CIG.
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Wait until they actually have something that works, and released not in Alpha nor beta not gamma.
ME: Andromeda will be around the corner and much more polished and complete before we will even see something working from CIG.
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That the game will make no progress is a very cynical assertion. If you would take a honest look at the developments during the last year you will notice that it made great strides. One year ago we had the Arena Commander with combat and some basic landing mechanics. Right now we have the Crusader system.
I think you are trolling here with the comment about Derek Smart buying up the assets. He has never build anything of critical acclaim and his coding skills are 20 years behind today's standards as his releases have shown. About his finances, I doubt that he has the money to buy up any assets. Development of his own game is stalled. Likely because he ran out of money already.
My guess is that he is baiting CIG to sue him. He probably believes that he can win an out of court settlement and run with some of the backers money.
In what way was the video disingenuous? CIG is using a streaming technology. QuantumDrive is in no form some kind of 'loading screen' like SuperCruise is in Elite Dangerous. It is all seamless streamed while traveling.
Well the landing Zones are still Handcrafted ... and so will be other points of interests on the procedurally generated planets in SC. It is a mixture of both.
The alternative would be that you get a handcrafted landing zone where you could not transition to seamless but with some form of 'loading screen'. And i should add: This was a very early version of procedural generated planets. CIG claims this has evolved greatly and we will see a better version of that soon™.
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