Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)

[PavelKCZ]

i know people are going to suggest them farming res again with sys authority help, but maybe they dont want to. or maybe say well they dont have to go cobra they can go adder first but i looked at that and its not much less grinding that with the sidewinder was what i decided. once i got the cobra 3 i was having more fun, and it wasnt such a chore to get the asp - indeed i kept the cobra a long time in storage until i really needed to finish my asp build in a hurry. the asp was just a lot tougher once shields went down. i had more survival time to judge in it and i got more cargo capacity also. im thinking that the number of viable configs is reduced at the moment and will be worse with the mods when they come back, and flying a part built ship is no longer viable that makes the grind to get a better ship more boring because longer.

I think that to buy a basic ship and start to fly it really is not a good idea in 2.1
More precisely, it was a pretty stupid idea even in 1.4, but players was doing it, because they was able to survive. This is no more the option. Way better now is to have more money, plan ahead, look where the best possible upgrades can be bought around the system where the hull itself will be bought, think about it, calculate everything and after all this preparations, make the investment. Buy a ship, outfit it as best as possible in the place where the ship is bought and asap go for better outfitting. Or find a system, where the ship can be bought and totally outfitted at the same place. At least the most important modules like power plant, thrusters, shields, distributor and weapons.

 

[Mazhurg]

Let me get this right, you "don't want to become an expert at combat" and yet you expect to be able to wander into any situation, in any ship, and come out unscathed? And you feel this reasonable because the 2.0 NPCs were lobotomized by spin-of-death bugs? Which you miss and want back?

I am sorry, that is not a reasonable expectation of safety in any game. If you go into a dragon's cave, expect dragons, not bunnies.

The bunny cave is in the USS in the high sec system. Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnOdAT6H94s

It' s got the engineer mod bug.

 

[Ziljan]

Or they could have just fixed the spin of death and tweaked aggression and competence a bit based on their level instead of gluing AI ships directly onto the asses of people flying ships larger than a FDL while firing chaff on 10 second timers to make the turrets needed to deal with these increased agility AI useless.

Chaff are 10 second on, 10 seconds off. It only takes about 10 seconds to strip the shields on a small agile ship with 2 class 3 beam turrets.

Besides defeating small ships with gimbals is as easy as flying in reverse... there is almost no counter to large ships flying in reverse, even with the new speed boost for smaller ships.

 

[WR3ND]

That's exactly right, and exactly how I'v been playing this game since I purchased it, I have dropped into lots of USS points since I started playing and picked up stuff for sale on the black market, I've gone in and fought NPC's, sometimes I've won and sometimes they got me or I've managed to escape by the skin of teeth, but the gameplay is now different since the 2.1/1.6 update and Frontiers revision of the initial 2.1/1.6 problems. You seem to be under the impression that everyone that plays this game wants to spend all their time in conflict, and I understand that many do, but I'm not one of them, does that mean that I should be prevented from just enjoying the ED experience without having to watch my adrenalin levels? I didn't have to before the 2.1/1.6 update so this update is now preventing me from playing the game that I originally purchased, and that game for me was fine, it was exactly what I wanted and it fulfilled my expectations. O.K it may not have fulfilled yours, so I presume my preferences or choices have no relevance, yes?

The game isn't made just for you in particular, so to an extent at least, you have to take it as it comes and adapt your play style accordingly. The game is under ongoing development and will be for quite a while. To expect otherwise is unreasonable, in my opinion. If that means this game isn't for you for some reason, then that's what it means.

 

[Smaste]

Clearly you have no idea that corvette is the most efficient mining ship
320t cargo, 11 collectors, 1600MJ shields, 8A distributor can manage 3 medium mining lasers
Cutter can have more cargo, more limpets but its all redundant because 7A distributor cant handle 3 medium mining lasers
Conda with simmilar config will have much less cargo space than corvette

Isn't it so much nicer to explain your position rather than take personal offence to a tongue in cheek joke over a choice in a game and accuse the person of a mental disability?

Thanks for the explanation! I don't do much mining myself -- the last ship I mined in was a T7!

 

[howardtay]

I don't find the new AI fun at all. It constantly outmanuvers whatever I'm in. (despite yes, thruster turns, FA off manuvers and pip management) I recently stripped everything off my FAS, interdictors, everything, save guns and a shield cell bank, in an attempt to create something that can pitch fast enough to have a fighting chance. I shouldn't have to do that. There shouldn't only be one right loadout anymore.

I desperately miss the old AI. Everyone is acting the the old AI was never threatening, but remember, it killed people before! All the time!! Yes, the old AI was easy if you were flying a RES and 50 cops were already firing at it so it never even knew you were there. But get into a one on one fight with it, and things were different.

Frontier, this isn't fun.

WOW! somebody that agrees with me, I was beginning to think that I was the only one. It's all about survival now not trade or exploration, maybe it's time to rename it Elite Survival, it was Dangerous before but only mildly, which was enough for me.

 

[Mixxi Pal]

To be fair, winging up covers a multitude of piloting sins.

That's true. She'd probably confess that she's more about drawing fire than anything. I suppose that's an important role (on paper) when neither of you are very good and in that respect, I'm overjoyed that they've ramped it up a bit as we've been desperate to find reasons to play together. Too often in the past, we wander off doing our own thing and don't really care. I always know she's fine. "20k.... 80k.... 120k..." was becoming our only communication.

We'd held off on Horizons because it didn't seem to offer a great deal for us playing together as a team but it's beginning to interest me. I very much want them to give people reasons to interact and co-operate.

 

[bladebss]

My maine trouble was the drives the ai had. Now i have oly done a little testing but it seems fine now.. i can run away in my courier and im not being out manoeuvred but gunships. I had an elite sidey i just could not get in my sights the other day he hammered me with rails untill they ran out. I felt it was a bit over the top.

I dont mind them having super wepons and shields etc as long as i can hit them back lol.

I shal contuinue testing.. i think once i have a load of engeneered stuff it will be way too easy however

 

[howardtay]

The game isn't made just for you in particular, so to an extent at least, you have to take it as it comes and adapt your play style accordingly. The game is under ongoing development and will be for quite a while. To expect otherwise is unreasonable, in my opinion. If that means this game isn't for you for some reason, then that's what it means.

That's exactly right although the original game that I purchased was for me and now it isn't, and that's why I'm no longer playing it, I hope that Frontier survive because new players will leave within days of playing it, and Frontier will eventually loose the market. I'm not the only player that has stopped playing there are many more, So enjoy it while you can.

 

[SenatorPerry]

Undermining "wanted" ships? That's frankly not even possible. Those Red Letters don't say "Wanted." They say "Hostile". You were attacking hostile ships in their home turf, which is illegal, and you're racking up a bounty on yourself, and worse, gaining negative reputation thatsurvives your deaths, which makes you KOS in that system if it goes negative enough. You are basically a pariah in that system, and so they are sending waves of Elite hitmen to "expunge" you. As any good government would do to a psychopath that was on a killing spree.

I suspect the degree of bounty hounding is also tied to the security rating of the system you are Undermining. Try undermining a border system with low security.

Nevermind. The Super NPC is already noted:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258662

 

[Cheops1975]

Chaff are 10 second on, 10 seconds off. It only takes about 10 seconds to strip the shields on a small agile ship with 2 class 3 beam turrets.

Besides defeating small ships with gimbals is as easy as flying in reverse... there is almost no counter to large ships flying in reverse, even with the new speed boost for smaller ships.

Put a few large beam turrets on an Anaconda and play some Yakity Sax Benny Hill music while you watch as they attempt to actually hit their target. Beam turrets dont even come close to even HITTING a small agile target for the 10 seconds required to strip its shields when it's glued to your ass or playing orbit the large ship. Here's how a fight typically goes.. Oh.. a viper. Beam turrets fire.. hit. Viper boosts. Beam turrets still think the viper is where it was 2 seconds ago. beams slowly track behind the viper in its general direction hitting nothing. Viper has turned and boosts straight at you. Beam manage to get their ass in gear and graze it for a second or two. Viper is now behind you. Beams have no idea to do now.

I then boost, FA off, flip to face the viper, throw it in reverse.. turrets cannot cope with the FA off.. they become even more useless. I open up with everything else. Oh cool. Chaff. Can't hit a damn thing. Sometimes the fixed beam hits. Sometimes not. Doesn't matter anyway.. viper has now boosted and is behind me again. Now do that scenario for about 5 minutes if you're alone. It's not that the AI is difficult. It's just tedious as every ship does the same thing. Either a permanent pitch battle so they can superglue themselves to your glutes.. or zoom and boom jousting. That's it.

 

[killerofstars]

WOW! somebody that agrees with me, I was beginning to think that I was the only one. It's all about survival now not trade or exploration, maybe it's time to rename it Elite Survival, it was Dangerous before but only mildly, which was enough for me.

There are a lot of factors in why people keep proclaiming how great the new AI is. One is perhaps they want to be seen as badasses, so it's an ego thing. Which is stupid, but ego usually is. Another is that many players play in wings. I don't. I only have one friend I'm teaching to play the game, and she's a long way away from having meaningful dogfights. There are a multitude of factors that can change your perception of the AI, and having multiple people attacking one makes, perhaps, the biggest difference.

The thing I dont agree with is everyone saying the AI was fall asleep boring before. No. People still died. Read the forums. The AI was still a threat.

 

[Tinman]

As of the time of this posting.

-------------
Too hard - 23 votes
Just right - 63 votes
Too easy - 23 votes
--------------

FD seem to have nailed the balance then!

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I think that to buy a basic ship and start to fly it really is not a good idea in 2.1
More precisely, it was a pretty stupid idea even in 1.4, but players was doing it, because they was able to survive. This is no more the option. Way better now is to have more money, plan ahead, look where the best possible upgrades can be bought around the system where the hull itself will be bought, think about it, calculate everything and after all this preparations, make the investment. Buy a ship, outfit it as best as possible in the place where the ship is bought and asap go for better outfitting. Or find a system, where the ship can be bought and totally outfitted at the same place. At least the most important modules like power plant, thrusters, shields, distributor and weapons.

i would point out you are correct and i agree and this is why new players are suffering because they dont get that choice to outfit until they earned enough. but i wasnt advocating that even.

i didnt fly the basic cobra - i waited long enough until i could get the gimballed weapons i wanted on it and the thrusters, powerplant and shields, armour and hull reinforcement max i could, and stuck an intermediate disco and a detail scanner. then i earned the rest of the config. it went a lot faster in the cobra than in a sidewinder with 4t cargo. if that no longer an option then you are stuck in the sidewinder a lot longer and the adder isnt different enough to warrant grinding to get a fully outfitted one. im wondering what with the number of setback deaths there will be now in sidewinders how many will stick out a much longer boring grind.

 

[Ziljan]

That's exactly right, and exactly how I'v been playing this game since I purchased it, I have dropped into lots of USS points since I started playing and picked up stuff for sale on the black market, ... and that game for me was fine, it was exactly what I wanted and it fulfilled my expectations. O.K it may not have fulfilled yours, so I presume my preferences or choices have no relevance, yes?

You have plenty of (high security) places to go in 2.1 to play the game you used to play in 2.0. Those places are likewise off limits to people looking for action. It's called compromise.

To expect the whole universe to be a bathtub so that only you will be happy is not a reasonable expectation.

 

[killerofstars]

Chaff are 10 second on, 10 seconds off. It only takes about 10 seconds to strip the shields on a small agile ship with 2 class 3 beam turrets.

Besides defeating small ships with gimbals is as easy as flying in reverse... there is almost no counter to large ships flying in reverse, even with the new speed boost for smaller ships.

I'm sorry sir but you are incorrect. Last night I did some tests in my federal corvette. I had to replace nearly all the hardpoints with turrets before it was successful against smaller, more maneuverable ships...even flying in reverse.

Flying in reverse doesn't really benefit you that much.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

As of the time of this posting.

-------------
Too hard - 23 votes
Just right - 63 votes
Too easy - 23 votes
--------------

FD seem to have nailed the balance then!

too soon and not enough votes yet but it looks promising

 

[Jypson]

As of the time of this posting.

-------------
Too hard - 23 votes
Just right - 63 votes
Too easy - 23 votes
--------------

FD seem to have nailed the balance then!

I'm not saying they have or haven't, but this pole only has ~5% of the votes the last one had; a little too early to call me thinks.

 

[FX2K]

As of the time of this posting.

-------------
Too hard - 23 votes
Just right - 63 votes
Too easy - 23 votes
--------------

FD seem to have nailed the balance then!

OT: Kinda looks like it's giving us the finger... It's just right now, so f..

Spoiler

fly safe commanders... No swearing from me, learn't my lesson a while ago.

 

[howardtay]

There are a lot of factors in why people keep proclaiming how great the new AI is. One is perhaps they want to be seen as badasses, so it's an ego thing. Which is stupid, but ego usually is. Another is that many players play in wings. I don't. I only have one friend I'm teaching to play the game, and she's a long way away from having meaningful dogfights. There are a multitude of factors that can change your perception of the AI, and having multiple people attacking one makes, perhaps, the biggest difference.

The thing I dont agree with is everyone saying the AI was fall asleep boring before. No. People still died. Read the forums. The AI was still a threat.

At last somebody talking common sense, I died a lot when I first started playing, it took months to build up to a ship that could do the job, and just as I was starting to make headway, 2.1/1.6 appeared so back to the way it was when I first started playing all that effort and time totally wasted, I really have come to the conclusion that this game is no longer for me. I could carry on and improve my skills but then they could insert another update for the adrenalin junkies and BINGO we are back to square one again, no, not for me thank you very much, lots of other great games out there that don't require this kind of commitment. Evidently, playing a game just for the fun of it, is no longer acceptable.