Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)
- Thread starter Cmdr Eagleboy
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I see from the votes that FD has found the sweet spot, it is a classic bell shaped curve. Well done FD!
I flew today in a HIRES in my A-Class FAS and got 1 mill Cr. I engaged mostly deadlies, including one "Conda that flew aggressively and took me down to 70% hull and knocked out my docking computer, I had help from security and it blew up, nice multi k bounty. Had security not been there it would have been real close! OUTSTANDING!
The other NPC's also flew similarly and were still speedy and put out a heavy volume of fire, including accurate missile fire. I also incurred canopy damage, 76%. REAL LIFE-LIKE, GREAT!
This game is now coming alive to me, it was good and it is on it's way great.
There was no evidence of green tracers or other Engineer mod tell-tales. It was FUN!!
I left the field just to come back and post "KUDOS" to FD. Your responsiveness to your customers was top-flight. In 30 years of gaming I have never seen this happen.
"Ave Caesar, Nos Salutamus!"
"The Stars My Destination"
Alfred Bester
I flew today in a HIRES in my A-Class FAS and got 1 mill Cr. I engaged mostly deadlies, including one "Conda that flew aggressively and took me down to 70% hull and knocked out my docking computer, I had help from security and it blew up, nice multi k bounty. Had security not been there it would have been real close! OUTSTANDING!
The other NPC's also flew similarly and were still speedy and put out a heavy volume of fire, including accurate missile fire. I also incurred canopy damage, 76%. REAL LIFE-LIKE, GREAT!
This game is now coming alive to me, it was good and it is on it's way great.
There was no evidence of green tracers or other Engineer mod tell-tales. It was FUN!!
I left the field just to come back and post "KUDOS" to FD. Your responsiveness to your customers was top-flight. In 30 years of gaming I have never seen this happen.
"Ave Caesar, Nos Salutamus!"
"The Stars My Destination"
Alfred Bester
Good for you guys, maybe I was just unlucky but something needs fixing - I can't play like this, I'm scared to take my ship out for the same reasons that I wouldn't drive a Ferrari around my home town.
Thanks Jypson. I'm not crying over it
Worst case, I'll jump into an Eagle and make some $$$ for the insurance.
Thanks Jypson. I'm not crying over it
Worst case, I'll jump into an Eagle and make some $$$ for the insurance.
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It's way too early to make such assumptions. The game itself is dependant on which missions a player chooses to involve themselves in so give it a few days and see how your overall experience has been.
You can't judge on one or two experiences and only regarding flying one ship when numerous other players fly different ships.
I'm just glad they're working on it so proper feedback is of paramount importance.
You see ihave the opposite happen. Flew into a hires. Attacked a dangerous anaconda with my fully A rated FAS. Got my hull taken down to 40% with one weapon still online (the comp had shot out the rest in a matter of seconds) a malfunctioning distributor and a blown FS drive with my canopy at 3%. It was insane. It was a challenge. Yes. But it felt cheap. The way his turrets each targeted a diffrent component (something a player cant do) to being unable to outmanuver him in a A rated FAS. Couldnt stop him from jousting even with superior mobility of the FAS and flight assist off. It just felt cheap. And not really fun.
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I voted just right. Have had a great night in the game trying out the new AI whilst also doing some missions. I fly an A rated FAS.
Have had a mixed bag and had to run a few times, over all great fun ��!! Does seem to be a few bugs to iron out though. Had a dangerous Python do some beautiful flying around me but didn't engage me once!! Almost felt bad killing him ��!!
Competent ASP was fun but as he should be for the rank. Elite Viper was tricky till I got his shields down then his hull was like butter.
Had a dangerous FGS that proved to be just that. I got his shields down and hull to 46% but when he got the shields back up I just couldn't get them down again and then he brought the pain!!! Just got out of that one.
Tried a high RES and was good fun. I personally think you do have to earn your money now and tread carefully. I had an impulse attack that killed my shields but managed to escape. Certainly makes combat more alive.
So overall I think 2.1 with the great new mission system and types has given the game the shot in the butt it needed. I just hope when the NPC's do get enhancements again that it's just very few high ranked and for certain missions. Personally I have no interest in the Engineers and wouldn't like it if the game forced me to do that part of it just to keep up in combat.
Have had a mixed bag and had to run a few times, over all great fun ��!! Does seem to be a few bugs to iron out though. Had a dangerous Python do some beautiful flying around me but didn't engage me once!! Almost felt bad killing him ��!!
Competent ASP was fun but as he should be for the rank. Elite Viper was tricky till I got his shields down then his hull was like butter.
Had a dangerous FGS that proved to be just that. I got his shields down and hull to 46% but when he got the shields back up I just couldn't get them down again and then he brought the pain!!! Just got out of that one.
Tried a high RES and was good fun. I personally think you do have to earn your money now and tread carefully. I had an impulse attack that killed my shields but managed to escape. Certainly makes combat more alive.
So overall I think 2.1 with the great new mission system and types has given the game the shot in the butt it needed. I just hope when the NPC's do get enhancements again that it's just very few high ranked and for certain missions. Personally I have no interest in the Engineers and wouldn't like it if the game forced me to do that part of it just to keep up in combat.
When you accidentally shoot a cop you don't immediately become "wanted." They have to scan you first. So you get a warning "Scan Detected!". At which point, you better boost like hell. Even though you are not wanted, you will still have a 1 week notice in your transactions tab. So be VERY careful not to shoot cops in a HAZRES. Btw, there is an NPC engineer mod that will prevent friendly fire, so you won't have to worry about Cops in the future. And before you say "but I didn't shoot any cops", if you accidentally shot them, you probably didn't even notice it.
I was not referring to the bugged skynet NPCs weapon mods, or even to you, but rather to the handful of loud bandwagoneer extremists who are calling for a return to the Spin of Death NPCs of 2.0, and blaming "Super NPCs" for their misfortunes. They obviously exist, but saying they are "common" is a bit of a stretch, since I have been playing ~5 hours a day since launch (yeah yeah, I know) and haven't even seen one.
Steutlebos, see the quote below from Zac. Unless they issued a 2nd engi mod removal that I haven't heard of, they are still in the game to a limited degree which is probably why people are getting the "impulse attack" warnings. Apart from the bugged skynet uber railguns (that will be gone by the end of the week), the remaining weapons themselves aren't anything special to worry about. Despite the ship's computer warning.
Just earnt an easy million in a high RES with a Vulture; no dramas, no shield loss. The AI is significantly toned down, but better than before last update as many have said.
The last lot of Borg-esque AI have definitely made me a better pilot though, so a big thanks for that! I've also done a few black box missions in a Courier that were a bit more of a challenge, but pleasantly so (a deadly FDL popped up, and whereas in the previous update I would've scampered away, took it on with the timely arrival of the po-po for only a few scrapes on the hull).
Probably slightly too easy now in summary but closer to the sweet spot!
The last lot of Borg-esque AI have definitely made me a better pilot though, so a big thanks for that! I've also done a few black box missions in a Courier that were a bit more of a challenge, but pleasantly so (a deadly FDL popped up, and whereas in the previous update I would've scampered away, took it on with the timely arrival of the po-po for only a few scrapes on the hull).
Probably slightly too easy now in summary but closer to the sweet spot!
Ah, I see, well in that case, here's an exercise that I do all the time that helps do exactly this thing you say is "impossible"
I go to a Coriolis station and look for either a Viper or a Condor that is "circling" the entrance. (These are the same NPCs that often scan people heading through the mailbox). I will then take a ship and glue the nose of my ship to the tail of the NPC, trying to stay withing 500m, while keeping my weapons gun sights dots glued to their ship. Then I get in a little closer, trying to stay within 400m, then 300, then 250. WARNING if you crash into the Condor they can explode, and this will not endear you to the station! LOL.
Anyway, it's a good exercise for getting back to basics and I do it regularly in my ships when I have nothing else to do, or when I want to sharpen my skills.
There are two steps to defeating any adversary,
1) know your own abilities
2) knowing your adversaries abilities as well as your own
You can do OK by knowing the 1st, and it's sounds like your are doing OK. But if you want to melt small ships with your turrets, or any other weapon, you have to understand their strengths and their weaknesses. For instance did you know that from 2km away, a Viper will take VERY little damage from turrets or gimbals? Same for sidewinders and eagles? They take extremely reduced damage between 1km and 2km. And between 500m and 1km they are toast. The trick to using turrets is have the small ships close enough to take damage, but not so close that they can move faster than the turrets can rotate. And then also to counter the current motion, not by trying to point at them, but to reduce their motion relative to your turrets.
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I'm concerned that this poll is a sort of bait and switch. The premise is, if you want something a certain way that you know people will not like, ask for something utterly ridiculous so when you scale back to what you actually wanted, people will think you're doing them a favour.
"We want the AI hard, but people will complain it's too hard. So, we'll make the AI stupidly overpowered. That way we can scale back to hard and look like we're actually making it easier - even though it's harder than it was in the first place."
Maybe I'm being cynical
"We want the AI hard, but people will complain it's too hard. So, we'll make the AI stupidly overpowered. That way we can scale back to hard and look like we're actually making it easier - even though it's harder than it was in the first place."
Maybe I'm being cynical
Considering that the NPCs were never really a challenge for some of us anyway, I certainly doubt that. I mean, more than I would otherwise.
No, the main issue, in purported limited occurrences, was just NPC Mod bugs that have nothing really to do with the AI directly.
The "rebalancing" so far seems to just be to get rid of the mods altogether. I'm a little disappointed that it means the NPCs will be even less of a challenge, but glad it's still an upgrade from the 2.0 AI. It also seems a bit more fair to people stuck on 1.6.
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Hard for me to sya. I rarely did combat, and when I did I was usually outnumbered by as much as 16-1. So, I rarely didnt find the AI a challenge.
Better than before. Master or higher still seems too buff for me when engaged with similar craft. Lower seems ok though. Too much AI always trying to get behind you. Every fight is circle of doom. They should try some odd fly wide moves. Change it up.
They didn't make the AI any easier AT. ALL. They stopped the AI from cheating with engineer modules. The AI's increased ability to take/deal damage is actually less consequential than whether or not you're able to maintain fire on an NPC. And given their new squirillyness and the fact that they flat out cheat (when the player toggles FA off on, the NPC automatically tries to boost behind you) it's significantly harder to put fire consistantly on that NPC.
I see we are back to potato AI, just took out several elite Anacondas without too much hassle. They slightly better than 2.0 but not by much. Sigh congratulation whine patrol you win again. I guess its time to go back to CQC and see if there is some challenge there.
Ever since the engineer's patch I get interdicted by only Fur de lance's and Anaconda's. I know they rolled back the npc mods and im still barely surviving and sometimes dying.I fly a Cutter for trade. im a terrible combat pilot but I like to trade. Ive played ever since the game was launched. I like to trade but now I hate it so much im taking a break from the game. If you at frontier think we trader's like this patch well its awfull. I get interdicted constanly and when I do its a pretty good chance im gonna die. It costs me 25 mil a death. How do you think people like me are gonna react. Well were gonna quit that's how. I cant believe the big giant crap you took on us. I cant wait for the new space games to be launched. I love space games but im really hating this one now since patch changes. For the casual player this is not the game to play anymore.
Really, my experience of the AI before all this was that it was fine. I rarely had to deal with an enemy one on one, but when I did, I found them frequently challenging... so much so that I avoided ANY fight with more than one foe. Mind you, my ships were not geared specifically for combat. However, I feel that's appropriate. ANY Ship should be capable of defending itself, at least in a one on one duel, with pretty well any other ship... at least in my opinion. It just might be harder in less combat oriented ships.
On the other hand, I do see why people would want a more challenging AI.
My main concern is this: This game is a SIM. To that end, everything in it should be as realistic as possible. As such, NPC ships should be EXACTLY the same as PC ships of the same type. They should be subject to ALL the same restrictions as we are, have EXACTLY the same damage output and defensive equipment as we have. Exactly WHAT gear they use should depend on their level (eg. Elite ships might use type A gear, Harmless ones might use D or E). Likewise, the AI should react more or less slowly based on that level (ie. Elite ships will react to player actions more quickly than Harmless ones).
I've not fought a battle yet under the new combat system. I did try the Training mission against a Cobra, and found it a challenge, but not overwhelming. I don't know if that mission had the AI changed, though. Either way, I'm not about to risk my T6 to test the combat system.
I'm not liking what I'm seeing though. Based on what I'm reading in these threads, there are a LOT of people leaving the game - dissatisfied customers who will undoubtedly express their feelings to OTHER potential customers. It's a disturbing trend. A bad reputation is easy to get, damn near impossible to shake off. Be careful, Devs. You're treading in a very dangerous realm now.
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Try taking the uber-leet gear off your ship. If you want to have a greater challenge, you can provide one YOURSELF by making YOUR ship weaker.
On the other hand, I do see why people would want a more challenging AI.
My main concern is this: This game is a SIM. To that end, everything in it should be as realistic as possible. As such, NPC ships should be EXACTLY the same as PC ships of the same type. They should be subject to ALL the same restrictions as we are, have EXACTLY the same damage output and defensive equipment as we have. Exactly WHAT gear they use should depend on their level (eg. Elite ships might use type A gear, Harmless ones might use D or E). Likewise, the AI should react more or less slowly based on that level (ie. Elite ships will react to player actions more quickly than Harmless ones).
I've not fought a battle yet under the new combat system. I did try the Training mission against a Cobra, and found it a challenge, but not overwhelming. I don't know if that mission had the AI changed, though. Either way, I'm not about to risk my T6 to test the combat system.
I'm not liking what I'm seeing though. Based on what I'm reading in these threads, there are a LOT of people leaving the game - dissatisfied customers who will undoubtedly express their feelings to OTHER potential customers. It's a disturbing trend. A bad reputation is easy to get, damn near impossible to shake off. Be careful, Devs. You're treading in a very dangerous realm now.
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Try taking the uber-leet gear off your ship. If you want to have a greater challenge, you can provide one YOURSELF by making YOUR ship weaker.
What is "uber-leet" gear anyway? I pilot an unEgineered exploration capable Vulture (working on getting the tier 5 FSD jump range mode though). Or for that matter, why not just use a blindfold when you play (yes, an exaggeration)? Some of us don't care that much for that kind of meta play and would prefer a competent, challenging game instead. It's partly why I'm not really into PVP. I understand this game isn't made for anyone in particular though, so we have to do the best we can with what we have. Telling someone to artificially handicap themselves isn't a reasonable solution though, IMO.
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This is very close to the way I feel (I'm less than half your age, but I completely get where you're coming from.) I liked combat, and yes I felt it was too easy, but the way it is now, even considering myself a pretty good pilot it feels as though it's swing far too far in the opposite direction, absurdly so. I've tried to adjust, I really have, but it's just honestly not feeling fun anymore, and that's what really stings. I love Elite Dangerous, it's become a sort of release valve for me as I work 2 jobs, both of which are quite stress laden. Rag on me, call me names, call me carebear, whatever, that's the way I feel - just making my voice heard.
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