Poll about exit-to-menu delay time

[GluttonyFang]

You have moved off into another word puzzle. I won't be joining you. I've made my position clear by now. Good luck out there.

Good day.

 

[AJW]

I already put the evidence in the edit, it's not my fault that you don't want to read it, nor read Locke's writing about tacit consent.

You have put no actual evidence anywhere. Just the usual bluster of one asked to prove the unprovable. As for Locke, I'm not the slightest bit interested in your sophomoric book-skimming exercises. You may be under the misapprehension that you understand philosophy, but I see no reason to acquiesce in that particular bit of role-playing.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You have put no actual evidence anywhere. Just the usual bluster of one asked to prove the unprovable.

"people gave consent to the potentiality of piracy by playing in Open"? Nope. An outright lie. Repeating the same drivel again and again in different words doesn't make it the truth.

Well, claiming it is false with no supporting evidence is meaningless at best.

Edit:

http://hosting.zaonce.net/elite/website/assets/English-PlayersGuidev1.04-INTERACTIVE.pdf

Page 15 ^, I trust you know where the keywords are, conjoin it with the following:

https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/combat

All legitimate game play have the possibility of occurring and players consent to those potentialities when engaging in Open play.

Not my fault if you refuse to read it.

As for Locke, I'm not the slightest bit interested in your sophomoric book-skimming exercises.

It's a pretty simple concept that doesn't even need "sophomoric book-skimming."

You may be under the misapprehension that you understand philosophy, but I see no reason to acquiesce in that particular bit of role-playing.

Ignoring ad hominem and personal commentary, hope you don't frustrate yourself too much, it's not good for your health.

 

[PiLhEaD]

Guys, I don't know abt the rest of the community, but I am bored rigid by this circular arguement that pops up all over.

Please.stow it, or start your own thread.

Ta.

 

[R3DB3RD]

Hey, if there's any points you want to introduce, show me.

I'll repost for you, I'm like that, I like to help people with their research. Sometimes in life people work together, it's not all the strong will survive and life is tough.

Observe your posts with my responses beginning in Upper Case. See how nice and helpful I am.

Quote Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post
'It's not entitlement, it's the respect all players choose open deserves because it's a conscious decision to interact with all potential legitimate game play, piracy is one of them.'

RESPECT IS EARNED. It's not an entitlement

'It's an argument for increasing legitimate exit because people use it to avoid piracy, and that's not okay because breaks the multiplayer aspect of the profession.'

PLAYERS use it for all kinds of reasons,you have no evidence of either/or and unfortunately for you it is legitimate.

'Clearly you're not aware of my involvement in the PvP League/1v1 League then? Oh look, lack of research.'

GOOD RESEARCH goes straight to the primary source. What part of me asking you a direct question don't you understand. Obviously not the basics of good research.

'Because that isn't piracy, it's begging between friends since it requires the explicit consent of the victim party to extract cargo/interact. Piracy is acquiescence, legitimized by the game.'

ITS NOT BEGGING, it's playing with fellow players with whom you share common playstyles and gaming ethos.

'Strawman, only those that play in Open.'

3 MODES EQUAL AND VALID. Change effects all modes. Learn how to use Strawman properly.

 

[GluttonyFang]

RESPECT IS EARNED. It's not an entitlement

Basic respect for legitimate game play and profession is missing, so I don't know what entitlement there is.

PLAYERS use it for all kinds of reasons,you have no evidence of either/or and unfortunately for you it is legitimate.

And an increased timer modified with a preemptive exit button that will exit the game once the count down finishes will hinder people using this mechanic for things other than avoiding interaction in Open how...? Oh right, it pretty much can't.

ITS NOT BEGGING, it's playing with fellow players with whom you share common playstyles and gaming ethos.

Scripted piracy is begging, unscripted piracy is actual piracy. By definition, if people give explicit consent to be pirated, it's not piracy.

3 MODES EQUAL AND VALID. Change effects all modes. Learn how to use Strawman properly.

The actual exchange was this:

It's not everyone else problem if you feel entitled to play with every single person playing this game.

Strawman, only those that play in Open.

I'm certain I made my stance clear that I'm pushing for an all-inclusive Open mode, not deleting private or solo mode, so no, I'm not playing strawman.

 

[AJW]

At this point, since it is quite evident that GluttonyFang is incapable of backing up any of his claims of 'consent' or 'acquiescence' with verifiable evidence, there is nothing more that needs to be said on the subject. This 'consent' is a fiction presented for no reason other than the wish of certain players to oblige other players to participate in piracy role-play against their will. And FD aren't going to do that. They couldn't if they wanted to...

 

[GluttonyFang]

At this point, since it is quite evident that GluttonyFang is incapable of backing up any of his claims of 'consent' or 'acquiescence' with verifiable evidence, there is nothing more that needs to be said on the subject. This 'consent' is a fiction presented for no reason other than the wish of certain players to oblige other players to participate in piracy role-play against their will. And FD aren't going to do that. They couldn't if they wanted to...

Hey it's not my problem if you refuse to read, I can just easily claim that: "AJW is incapable of backing up any of his claims of lack of consent with verifiable evidence."

Doesn't help anyone in case you haven't noticed.

 

[R3DB3RD]

I get over myself all the time. Wet wipes helps with that. You should try it. It might help you relax.

Basic respect for legitimate game play and profession is missing, so I don't know what entitlement there is.


And an increased timer modified with a preemptive exit button that will exit the game once the count down finishes will hinder people using this mechanic for things other than avoiding interaction in Open how...? Oh right, it pretty much can't.



Scripted piracy is begging, unscripted piracy is actual piracy. By definition, if people give explicit consent to be pirated, it's not piracy.



The actual exchange was this:



Strawman, only those that play in Open.

I'm certain I made my stance clear that I'm pushing for an all-inclusive Open mode, not deleting private or solo mode, so no, I'm not playing strawman.

Ah, ok.
...
...
...
...
No. Sorry, your lack of argument has done nothing for me and your opinions even less.

Nice try tho...
... No not really. That was sarcasm.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Ah, ok.
...
...
...
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No. Sorry, your lack of argument has done nothing for me and your opinions even less.

Nice try tho...
... No not really. That was sarcasm.

Great, very productive.

 

[AJW]

Hey it's not my problem if you refuse to read, I can just easily claim that: "AJW is incapable of backing up any of his claims of lack of consent with verifiable evidence."

Doesn't help anyone in case you haven't noticed.

You claim that something exists, and then place the burden of proof on others to show that it doesn't? My pet unicorn (a student of Hobbes, Locke and Foucault, and a lifelong friend of Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir) has incontrovertible evidence to the contrary...

 

[GluttonyFang]

You claim that something exists, and then place the burden of proof on others to show that it doesn't?

I already told you, tacit consent, along with the given evidence, but you don't want to read it so it's not my fault that you don't get the concept.

My pet unicorn (a student of Hobbes, Locke and Foucault, and a lifelong friend of Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir) has incontrovertible evidence to the contrary...

Funny, my pet thargoid (a graduate of Yale, conference attendee at Harvard, undergraduate of Oxford, descendant of Lao Zi who corresponded with Plato) has immutable evidence to the contrary of your claims.

 

[Spiridon]

HEy Gluttony, what's with you and this piracy? Why this crusade at all? Piracy is just a small, tinny element of this game. Already working, anyone can do it.

OK, it's not working the way you want, but guess what - this is not your game. You haven't made it. The people who did that constructed it the way they see fit.

In order for ED to satisfy YOU, they have to change their entire approach to this Open/Group/Solo universe which works for 1,3 million users. Haven't you set your goal a bit too high?

 

[AJW]

I already told you, tacit consent, along with the given evidence, but you don't want to read it so it's not my fault that you don't get the concept.

You have 'told' me nothing. Claiming that something exists is not evidence that it exists. I buy a game. I click a button. I consent to nothing except the contract between purchaser and supplier. The rest is unicorn-poop...

 

[GluttonyFang]

HEy Gluttony, what's with you and this piracy? Why this crusade at all? Piracy is just a small, tinny element of this game. Already working, anyone can do it.

I don't consider ships vanishing magically into thin air functional.

OK, it's not working the way you want, but guess what - this is not your game.

The multiplayer aspect of it isn't working, period.

You haven't made it. The people who did that constructed it the way they see fit.

And they gave people a broken profession that has its multiplayer aspect in ruins unless it's scripted.

In order for ED to satisfy YOU, they have to change their entire approach to this Open/Group/Solo universe which works for 1,3 million users. Haven't you set your goal a bit too high?

No actually, they don't have to change much at all. Increase the timer with a button that can exit automatically once the the count down finishes. Those with emergency can leave their screen immediately. Those that try to avoid combat with it let it be NPC or against player suffer the proper consequences. Then punish actual combat logging.

Then we have a basic frame work of a working OWPvP game that relatively respect all its legitimate professions and game play.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You have 'told' me nothing. Claiming that something exists is not evidence that it exists. I buy a game. I click a button. I consent to nothing except the contract between purchaser and supplier. The rest is unicorn-poop...

Tacit consent, if you don't read it's not my fault that you don't understand my point. I can easily claim that all you're claiming is thargoid-poop, does it help? No, so leave the unproductive attitude out of the discussion.

 

[AJW]

Tacit consent, if you don't read it's not my fault that you don't understand my point. I can easily claim that all you're claiming is thargoid-poop, does it help? No, so leave the unproductive attitude out of the discussion.

You have no point. You have entirely failed to demonstrate that any such consent exists. And prefacing something imaginary with the word 'tacit' doesn't make it real. You have provided precisely zero evidence that purchasers of the game need have even heard of these rules or standards you are trying to get enforced, never mind agreed to them. 'Consent', tacit or otherwise is a figment of your imagination.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You have no point. You have entirely failed to demonstrate that any such consent exists. And prefacing something imaginary with the word 'tacit' doesn't make it real.

Hah... this is what happens when you don't read...

When you demonstrate no understanding of the term, how do you expect me to take what you say seriously?

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke-political/

You have provided precisely zero evidence that purchasers of the game need have even heard of these rules or standards you are trying to get enforced, never mind agreed to them. 'Consent', tacit or otherwise is a figment of your imagination.

See above.

Edit:

Try to argue being attacked in-game in a OWPvP game and claim that you gave no form of consent for it to happen and see what happens.

Btw, if you truly believe in what you consider to be "lack of consent," you should be screaming up and down every time something new happens in the game let it be NPC or player, because that encounter/event wasn't explicitly scripted and written down for you to consent to.

I look forward to you overreacting to everything with your contrived version of "consent."

 

[AJW]

Hah... this is what happens when you don't read...

When you demonstrate no understanding of the term, how do you expect me to take what you say seriously?

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke-political/



See above.

I can certainly see the above - and see it for what it is. A smokescreen. Only a complete imbecile would take seriously the suggestion that Locke's discussion on 'tacit consent' in relation to the legitimacy of government was relevant to a debate on piracy role-play in a computer game.

(And as an aside, I would point out that if you are going to pretend to be a student of philosophy, you should probably be aware that other philosophers since have disputed Locke's conclusions - 'a philosopher once said something' doesn't necessarily make it true...)

 

[GluttonyFang]

I can certainly see the above - and see it for what it is. A smokescreen. Only a complete imbecile would take seriously the suggestion that Locke's discussion on 'tacit consent' in relation to the legitimacy of government was relevant to a debate on piracy role-play in a computer game.

Great, then only a complete imbecile would take seriously the suggestion that everything in the game demands some sort of explicit consent from the player.

Oh look, how productive.

(And as an aside, I would point out that if you are going to pretend to be a student of philosophy, you should probably be aware that other philosophers since have disputed Locke's conclusions - 'a philosopher once said something' doesn't necessarily make it true...)

And if you true believe you are in a place to judge philosophy in general, that everything is relative and there's no such thing as an appeal to absolute authority. Either argue the point, or don't. Claiming it to be "asinine" without any thorough argument is just asking to be laughed at for being ineffective and unproductive.

I'm a student of political science and computer science before philosophy, mind you.

 

[Mohrgan]

You guys are gonna get the finger wag. You could continue this in PM's.