Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)

[Brysett]

Question to all of you people that are happy with the AI as it is right now.
Please note that I am fairly new to this game. I got it shortly before the update.

I worked my way up to a type-6 by doing nothing but trading. I had 1 fight.. One! (Got interdicted and while I was trying to run the police showed up, so yeah, I turned and fired, got about 10k bonus for that. Also that was before I got the type-6).
So your solution to my problem of getting shot out of the sky now, with no chance of running is to:
A) Switch back to a much smaller ship so I only (mostly) get small opponents?
or
B) Switch to a combat ship and learn combat?

Not going to happen. Neither is acceptable to me. I got the clear impression that I could be a trader, if I wanted to, when I got the game, but right now, while I can do some trading, I am loosing money faster than I can earn them.
Yes I know it's being worked at, and I am taking a break until the game is playable for me again.
If it's playable for you, fine, enjoy it. It's a game, it's meant to be enjoyed.
It is just not enjoyable for me in it's current state.

 

[James Razor]

My Problem with the new AI is still that it is a major time sink for little to no reward. While i was able to avoid any ship loses, i found out that their *Combat Tactics* include very close flybys which most of the time lead to them crashing into me. Depending on my ship and the shield strenght at the moment of collision it is mostly a suicide run for them (i prefer Cutters as main ships).
In my FDL i one time made it out only with 3% Hull, didnt find that funny at all. Not to mention that Hull Damage on the Cutter cost u a bit.

While i can understand the need for a better AI, i can NOT understand why it had to be so overbuffed. Its accuracy with fixed weapons is too high and the spawn rate of deadly and higher ranked npcs is also way to high. I almost always encounter NPCs ranked in the Top 3 ranks which makes every fight an annoying time costing experience.
Especially as even Elite Ranked small ships do not stand a realistic chance to wear my Cutter down, only with bugged weapons is that possible, nor can they realy stop me from escaping. Yet they still attack, sometimes even when without cargo and i normaly do not have bounties on me, even if i get them i normaly clear them at the first possibility. And recently there hasnt been one bigger than 400Cr after a friendly fire incident.
For me as large ship pilot the situation is extremly frustrating because i do not have the weapons at hand to get rid of these annoying small pests. Turrets lack in efficiency and more importantly larger weapons lack in range to deal with smaller ships. Not to mention that ship balancing as a whole has its issues with the current itteration of the game. And i am by far not the only one to complain about that.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

For information new update changelog just dropped https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=259444

So NPC superweapons are fixed, and players will meet NPCs more of their ranking, way less Elites. So I think lot of players complaining at the moment will be happier.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Yes, it is. Look back through the threads and see just how many people have STOPPED PLAYING

You could just tell us the number, makes live easier.

 

[stripealipe]

Finally, the first proper patch drops since the first live build dropped on your poor unsuspecting heads.... now can we start to appraise the AI in some kind of constructive manner?
The first live build was always gonna need more tweaks, AI included... quit the 'i've had enough, i'm burning my PC and giving up...' posts please..

Can't believe some of you can't just hang in there and read, realise and have some patience knowing that FD were aware of the AI needing more tweaks and that newer players were having kittens over this...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=259444

 

[Ziljan]

Finally, the first proper patch drops since the first live build dropped on your poor unsuspecting heads....

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=259444

NPCs
- Slight rebalance of the ambient AI rank chances, should see slightly less of the top end and more of the low/mid range

I was only seeing 1 Elite per 5 hour gaming session as it is... I guess I will see 1 Elite per week now? [blah][sour]

 

[Robert Maynard]

Poll closed - further refinements to the prevalence of New AI ranks, removal of engineered weapons, etc. as stated in the Patch Notes linked to above.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I was only seeing 1 Elite per 5 hour gaming session as it is... I guess I will see 1 Elite per week now?

Hopefully you will be able to discover some way of reliably finding them - I am pleased that there has been no mention of changing the AI itself in the Patch Notes (just the likelihood of encountering it / receiving aggro from it).

 

[Bretzel]

Did a bit of testing today...first with my eagle (love its manoeuverability) : http://coriolis.io/outfit/eagle/02A3A3A1B2A2C2C24240p0n40012525.Iw1-EA==.IwBj4yg=?bn=Eagor , in LowRes , picked my targets , tried to stick to Security : went fine....never lost shields and made 500 k . You can really outmanoeuver basically everything and if not its presenting a pretty small target.

Then for more in my FDL : http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...0020m4a5d2b2o66.Iw18aQ==.IwBj4zOGg===?bn=Fear <-forget the PA , used a class 4 MC. Went to HighRes , Little bit of FAOff , but only for very manoeuverable targets , went ok , some Deadly Python used Impulse weapon on me i got told the message and it said Speed reduced,didnt notice loss though and he got down eventually , no elite condas seen...lost shield twice over the course of 40 minutes or so , hull down to 82 % as i left but never was in danger as Security was fast.

So far i have no complaints with the hotfix , will do more testing tomorrow in my battleconda and my mining/pirate python to see if my feeling is right that MANOEUVREABILITY is king against AI atm...

^ ...to see what i was doing before

Next testing session this time with my pirate/miner python (loadout varies with what i want to do,currently in mining config) : http://coriolis.io/outfit/python/27...41vC0C0P4.Iw18eQ==.Aw18eQ==?bn=pirate%2Fminer

This time first lowRes , then HiRes : Lower ranked targets not a problem with those 2 beamlasers, Railguns unusable on small targets , in HiRes i was able to hit 1 or 2 times against medium targets , got attacked by a 3-wing of DBE/DBS in HiRes , Impulse attack, Therrmal attack message , Shields out after 25 seconds....escaped with 60% Hull by HighWaking , was not able to manoeuvre good enough to shoot them...

Looks like all Ships that have bad to average manoeuvrability are in a inferior position to the AI , also fixed weapons are an absolute no-go against the super-manoeuvrable AI , you wont hit much. Will try to throw off the mining laser for a pulselaser turret to see how that works (cant get rid of the rails until module storage is implemented...wont get them back and im absolutely not grinding rank 4 again in pp and wait 2 weeks just for a not much better weapon).


Couldnt test more...Patch was being deployed...

So for ease of reading , my conclusion so far:

- Manoeuverability is king against AI
- fixed weapons are a no-go
- even small AI can rip a python with 6a shield and military armor apart pretty fast , cant imagine the damage they will be doing with engineer mods on them , 10 secs to live? :O

 

[Ziljan]

Hopefully you will be able to discover some way of reliably finding them - I am pleased that there has been no mention of changing the AI itself in the Patch Notes (just the likelihood of encountering it / receiving aggro from it).

Yes me too. And hopefully it isn't some contrived immersion breaking fenced off "valhalla garden" like CQC. I don't want to stop playing the game, to play the game.

Maybe getting a big bounty on my head will do the trick? Or pledging Power Play? Not opposed to it, but not a huge fan of piracy or politics. Maybe the mission ranks will be another way in?

 

[Boomer Kay]

Yes me too. And hopefully it isn't some contrived immersion breaking fenced off "valhalla garden" like CQC. I don't want to stop playing the game, to play the game.

Well, I'd read "ambient AI ranks" as the ships that randomly spawn in a system. That's those who do pose a threat to low ranked/inexperienced players, so having them all over the place is not quite enjoyable.

Running missions of the appropriate rank should spawn NPCs of the appropriate rank.
Being in the appropriate level Res (low, high, haz) and combat zone (low, high) should still provide an ample number of high level opponents (well, the "high" ones).
PowerPlay NPCs are most likely still the annoying murder hobos they always were.

 

[Ziljan]

Well, I'd read "ambient AI ranks" as the ships that randomly spawn in a system. That's those who do pose a threat to low ranked/inexperienced players, so having them all over the place is not quite enjoyable.

Running missions of the appropriate rank should spawn NPCs of the appropriate rank.
Being in the appropriate level Res (low, high, haz) and combat zone (low, high) should still provide an ample number of high level opponents (well, the "high" ones).
PowerPlay NPCs are most likely still the annoying murder hobos they always were.

Thinking of carrying a 1,000,000 bounty on my head at all times just in case too


Though Han Solo's was 14 mil, so I may have to up the ante. Then I'll find out who my real friends are, haha.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Yes me too. And hopefully it isn't some contrived immersion breaking fenced off "valhalla garden" like CQC. I don't want to stop playing the game, to play the game.

Maybe getting a big bounty on my head will do the trick? Or pledging Power Play? Not opposed to it, but not a huge fan of piracy or politics. Maybe the mission ranks will be another way in?

For Elite mission you should get Elite npcs, or at least deadly.

 

[Han Brannigan]

Yes, it is. Look back through the threads and see just how many people have STOPPED PLAYING. It's because they can't compete. They cant trade, they can't mine, they can't explore because all these activities now require you to fight armadas of AI ships any ONE of which will absolutely slaughter most any noncombat ship. If you can't fight, you can't do any of the other things the game offered (past tense), so the game has become unplayable (unless you can fight).

No it isn't you are generalising. You can also play the game if you can run or avoid interdictions. Just for your information many players including me had stopped playing ( or STOPPED PLAYING as you would say ) because the AI was to derpish.
I do like to trade but only if there is a reasonable danger involved. Getting jumped by a harmless Eagle trying to find the reverse and generally giving itself up to my guns every now and then is not dangerous at all.
The game was marketed having a cutthroat Galaxy. So far ( even in open where every now and then some PvP enthusiast would blow my PvE ship to smitherines ) it was Elite light. It was only a question of time until you got the next shiny ship, skill was not involved whatsoever.

 

[Ziljan]

They nerfed NPC spawn ranks.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=259444

So lets stop arguing until the patch goes live and we actually have something substantive to discuss, Ok?

 

[Ian Phillips]

Serious question.
This thread was created to collect opinions of the situation after the server side removal of uber waepons from NPC's.

We now have the second patch to fix other issues. Do we want a new thread for the new situation?

 

[PavelKCZ]

Serious question.
This thread was created to collect opinions of the situation after the server side removal of uber waepons from NPC's.

We now have the second patch to fix other issues. Do we want a new thread for the new situation?

IMHO a new thread will be better.

 

[Han Brannigan]

They nerfed NPC spawn ranks.

Although I like the tough (for me) AI I also like this. Seeing an Elite NPC every once and again is a happening seing one every two minutes is meh... (immersion FTW). On the other hand those few Elite NPCs should be real killers ( with Engineer mods - at least when a few weeks have gone by and players will start to have them to ).

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IMHO a new thread will be better.

Agreed.

 

[Bretzel]

Serious question.
This thread was created to collect opinions of the situation after the server side removal of uber waepons from NPC's.

We now have the second patch to fix other issues. Do we want a new thread for the new situation?

For the sake of reading up on evolution of the game i suggest to do so.... maybe have a new poll too?

 

[Seonid]

We now have the second patch to fix other issues. Do we want a new thread for the new situation?

I think it would be helpful as regardless of an individual players stance on the absolutely subjective "easy/hard/just right" it still provides overall feedback for FD whom we know read it even if they rarely post. I'm not sure a poll would be that helpful for the aforementioned subjective thing.