'Attack of the AI' III

[Ziljan]

As I said, his opinion is as valid as anyone elses.

When someone's response is geared to invalidate the opnion of another indiivual through the camouflage of offering unsolicited advice then it isnt an opinion now is it.

I was definitely not trying to invalidate your opinion, just trying to provide facts to counter hysteria. But I think you stumbled upon something here. If the opposition to your opinion on the game is not another opinion but actually a set of actions that can be tested, then your assertions can be (in)validated objectively. Maybe that is what you think I was trying to do? No, it wasn't. But now that we've established it as a baseline for experiment, why don't you test it out empirically?

Try taking good advice.

 

[WR3ND]

Got the tier 5 Engineer FSD unlocked last night.

I haven't voted in this third iteration of the poll yet (is there really any point too anyway?), but will after getting the mod I'm after as it will involve a few more aspects of gameplay, provided this poll is still relevant by then.

Cheers.

Did all the material collecting playing today and got the tier 5 FSD mod for my Vulture exploration ship.

Got into quite a few scraps in the game and handled most with ease, though I'd say the NPCs do seem a bit more competent than 2.0 still. I didn't experience some of the bugs others have, such as ships that didn't fight back at all, but then I didn't go looking for them in particular either.

One encounter I had surprised me and the NPC managed to get my hull down to 51%. This was after being interdicted on my way back to the Engineer with the crafting components. So, perhaps a bit hit or miss depending on the build and type of NPCs you get. Still, this was partly my fault for not taking this specific NPC seriously enough.

So my vote: Yeah, a bit too easy for me.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Way too easy. Make it harder!

 

[Abomination]

About right I'd say.
<-- this old man is struggling, in a good way

 

[nothingfaced]

What a mess... FD have really messed this up. Was it like this on these forums on previous releases? I just got on and played it.

Anyway. AI is not too easy and not too hard but broken. An example. I was interdicted by a mission spawned NPC, a Dangerous Python. I'm in an asp. It demands cargo, I don't drop, I start firing and take his shield to zero without any returned fire, it just took it, ambling about in front of my guns.

However, as soon as I damaged its hull he boosted away and destroyed me with beams within seconds. Made no sense at all.

All in all the AI feels janky and awkward, so much more so than in previous updates. The balance across the game feels dug up and skewed.

With Engineers FD have a big problem on their hands balancing this out across their existing customers, those with Horizons and those without. Add on top of that the challenge of attracting new customers. Tough gig now.

 

[myrr mac]

1. Invest on shields and shield boosters. Not having them is not an excuse for a non-combat ship.
2. Get chaff launcher.
3. When you get interdicted. Zero throttle, then boost.
4. Put 4 pips to SYS and 2 pips to ENG.
5. Deploy chaff when NPC starts to hit you.
6. Try not to run on a straight line. NPCs can hit you easily.
7. If the NPC can mass-lock you, high wake.
8. Another trick is boost towards your attacker, past through them. Usually they won't chase you after that and even let you low wake.

I've been trading with my Asp Explorer and doing fine even when 2 Elites were attacking me on few occasion after getting interdicted.

1. Go back to school
2. Learn to read
3. When someone writes something on the forums, actually read before answering
4. Learn to stay on topic, and answer his questions
5. Dont counter with useless condescending advice he wasnt asking for.
6. Learn some empathy for others
7. Use that empathy to see the world from their point of view.
8 use that knowledge to not just tell him you are doing fine, and that thats all that matters.

I v been posting on the forums since the game was released, and even when 2 fanboys attack me on a few occasions, I manage fine.

 

[Mohenjo]

1. Invest on shields and shield boosters. Not having them is not an excuse for a non-combat ship.
No room on a Sidewinder after the chaff and point defense. Ship had the best shields possible.
2. Get chaff launcher.
Had one. Didn't help.
3. When you get interdicted. Zero throttle, then boost.
Did that, didn't help.
4. Put 4 pips to SYS and 2 pips to ENG.
Did that to get in close, then needed 4 ENG just to have a CHANCE to maneuver with him.
5. Deploy chaff when NPC starts to hit you.
Did that, didn't help.
6. Try not to run on a straight line. NPCs can hit you easily.
I'm not a novice. I've been flying flight sims of all sorts since they were invented. I KNOW this, DID this, DIDN'T HELP.
7. If the NPC can mass-lock you, high wake.
Did that when I could, didn't have time most other occasions. Also, to escape the mass lock means getting distance, which as we've established, only makes you a target.
8. Another trick is boost towards your attacker, past through them. Usually they won't chase you after that and even let you low wake.
That's a standard. he can't shoot you if you're behind him, even if you can't get in in YOUR sights. Usually. However, in this game, the AI is allowed to ignore the manuevering characteristics of their ship, so they can now flip around and keep shooting at you regardless. Most of the time.

I've been trading with my Asp Explorer and doing fine even when 2 Elites were attacking me on few occasion after getting interdicted.

How nice for you.

Comments in BLUE!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

You're not supposed to fight elite ranked NPCs with those types of ships. No wonder there's a lot of whining because of people not knowing about their ship capabilities in the first place.

Like I said, bugs aside, at least 90% of the "too hard" complaints I have seen over the last week is coming from people who seem to think that they should be able to take down Elite or Deadly NPC's in a Sidey or an Adder. These are the people who got rich from RES farming & grinding the Robigo run.....and are just        that their in-game exploits are getting shut down.

 

[capt_sparks]

Comments in BLUE!

Assuming this is the case, but the sidewinder doesn't cost much when having to rebuy, so you should be able to earn more up to the point where you can buy a better ship than sidewinder. Eventually you shouldn't experience those problems you have with sidewinder on a better ship.

Another thing, when in supercruise you should be able to see if someone wants to interdict you. They even announce it when they're about to interdict you. There's a lot of ways to prevent getting interdicted.

 

[Ziljan]

Ok, try that in a Sidewinder, or an Adder, or a Type 6.

I've taken out all 3 ships back when NPCs had "weapons of doom" and AI spawns were actually aggressive in 2.1.01. Had zero issues surviving vs elites.

For sidewinder and adder, just go to Felicia Farseer in Deciat and grab an Enhanced Thruster. No NPC will ever catch you again.

But even that speed is unnecessary. If you can manage your pips well, you can fly circles around bigger NPCs while charging a high wake without mass lock. A bit tricky if you don't keep a nearby star plotted, but still very doable. I always keep a nearby star plotted so I can just hit "next jump target" hotkey and I'm out of any encounter. No need to expose my flank to fire while I flee. stay close by and on their six while charging FSD. When the bar is full, boost in the direction of the star for an instant getaway.

Alternatively, you can go silent running and get more than 1.5km away. This will cause the NPC to lose target lock. Then use side thrusters to move away from your last known position.

 

[Mohenjo]

Like I said, bugs aside, at least 90% of the "too hard" complaints I have seen over the last week is coming from people who seem to think that they should be able to take down Elite or Deadly NPC's in a Sidey or an Adder. These are the people who got rich from RES farming & grinding the Robigo run.....and are just that their in-game exploits are getting shut down.

I don't think that at all. Don't put words in my mouth. I think a sidewinder should be able to out-turn a Cobra, regardless of whether the NPC is Deadly or whatever. The Sidewinder (and Adder) are MORE MANUEVERABLE than the Cobra. Look at the stats.
I've never farmed anything, and I don't appreciate the implication and blasé dismissal of my concerns based on the supposed misdeeds of others. I haven't exploited ANYTHING, I just want to be able to play the damn game.

 

[3instein]

If you look at all these whinging threads about the AI, and look at the way these people are losing their ships, people unable to run away with Cobras, people unable to survive and escape an interdiction while flying anacondas, people who don't manage pips, who run in straight lines, that carry chaff but don't even have a key binded to launch it, who can't even dock their ships themselves, who find being unable to out turn eagles in a corvette "a bug", people who don't know nor care to know 10% of the game mechanics.

^^ Exactly! I think folk are so used to the potato ai and easy credits, they don't want a tough game that would take a while to complete, hell, I am not even thinking about an end game, I play the game and enjoy it whatever may come in the game.

People these days know that if the cause a sh**storm on the forums ED will more than likely get the Nerf bat out, instant gratification is a horrible disease man. I can foretell that the ai will be nerfed further which is a shame TBH.


Mick.

 

[Mohenjo]

I've taken out all 3 ships back when NPCs had "weapons of doom" and AI spawns were actually aggressive in 2.1.01. Had zero issues surviving vs elites.

For sidewinder and adder, just go to Felicia Farseer in Deciat and grab an Enhanced Thruster. No NPC will ever catch you again.

But even that speed is unnecessary. If you can manage your pips well, you can fly circles around bigger NPCs while charging a high wake without mass lock. A bit tricky if you don't keep a nearby star plotted, but still very doable. I always keep a nearby star plotted so I can just hit "next jump target" hotkey and I'm out of any encounter. No need to expose my flank to fire while I flee. stay close by and on their six while charging FSD. When the bar is full, boost in the direction of the star for an instant getaway.

Alternatively, you can go silent running and get more than 1.5km away. This will cause the NPC to lose target lock. Then use side thrusters to move away from your last known position.

lse's can.
You keep saying this, but from what I've seen I have to say I'm dubious. My shields melt instantly when touched by anything, no matter how many pips are in it, and others have reported the same. So, I have to wonder what it is you're doing that's somehow making your shields withstand damage no one e

 

[adrinker]

Rather than boost ai everywhere, add more difficult combat zones and res sites.

 

[myrr mac]

Still waiting for the fanboys to make a cogent argument defending being interdicted and attacked by elite pirates while being rated harmless in combat.

You guys do understand what the combat rank is supposed to represent right? Harmless means you dont fly good. Giving them all kinds of tricks on how to beat the games hardest npcs from the armchair of your 500million cred ship, on the pedestial of your high combat rank isnt really an argument at all.

 

[3instein]

As a matter of fact. IF THEY DO CRAP like this, THEY have to compensate our expenses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we spend millions and millions of credits to get the ships and their configuration and spend weeks months and more to find the besst combination of configuration.
if these apes then change EVERYTHING so the configuration is useless, the weapons are useless and even SAME ships can rotate faster then you although u got the same ship. they have to compensate.

OR they give every pilot 10mill credits compensation, apologize to us cmdrs and take back this useless crap. if they want "realistic" combats - ok - but THEN they have to give us better thrusters too. and y the f my weapons suddenly dont hurt the AI ship anymore--- i dont get it. really im so damn        now.

im really close to uninstall the game because i really HATE being abused as a unpayed feature tester. ED may pay me for this stress. otherwise they need to apologize

f ... angry...

Really pal if a video game gets your panties bunched up and makes you this mad I don't think videogames are for you TBH, LOL- "abused" mmmkay.

Mick.

 

[TT_GreyWolf]

My Yesterday Journey to KHUN : June / 04

Four Jumps away from Khun -

1. Jump :
Traced and interrupted by an Deadly Cobra - with Railguns - Firing at topspeed boosting - With lasers and Railguns - i can runaway loosing alot of my Hull - Repaircost > 30.000 CR

2. Jump :
Traced by an Elite Assaultship - i spin arround the sun to refuel - he crashes into sun while he try's to interrupt my FSD

3. Jump :
interrupted by a squad of cobra's ( 2*Deadly / Expert ) - can boost away ( it tooks 2 minutes ) lost alot of Hull - Repaircost > 30.000 CR

4. Jump :
after all that i decide to get some money back - Navsignal bounty hunting - shooting one NPC ( Harmless ) reward 2070 CR
leaving for station
3 times interrupted by an Elite assaultship
loosing 65% of my hull - Repaiscost > 35.000 Cr

my Ship :
ASP Explorer / 6A shields / 3a Shieldcell / 5A Trusters / No mission / no bounty on my head / no special Cargo
i just want to have a look at the side of Martuuk for some upgrades

The upgrades i tried before this was simply waste without the powerplant

So for me the gameplay outside a small fighter is completly destroyed / gameplay is gone
it is simply stress and frustrating

the only thing you can do is runaway - or you got all the same message :

"Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on"
"Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on"
"Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on"
"Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on"
"Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on"
"Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on" "Flightassist off" - "Flightassist on"

in one fight

 

[myrr mac]

Greywolf, I get what you are sayin.

tip: You can edit ship voice communication feedback. You can turn off flight assist on/off voice in the audio menu.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think scaling is on target. What could be tweaked is various things all trough ranking system. However more I play more I forget that I play against NPCs. It feels right in terms how they fly. It is very solid foundation for things to come.

However, that shouldn't stop report bugs about weird issues about NPCs. There are lots of them. There's lot of time to get it fixed till 2.2.

 

[Ziljan]

Still waiting for the fanboys to make a cogent argument defending being interdicted and attacked by elite pirates while being rated harmless in combat.

You guys do understand what the combat rank is supposed to represent right? Harmless means you dont fly good. Giving them all kinds of tricks on how to beat the games hardest npcs from the armchair of your 500million cred ship, on the pedestial of your high combat rank isnt really an argument at all.

If you're getting pulled over by Elite Pirates you might be:

a) on an high ranked bulliten board mission
b) in possesion of a 20,000+ bounty on your head
c) in a rough neighborhood
d) extremely lucky


I have been trying to get interdicted by elite pirates since 2.1 launched. No luck so far, just a bunch of peasant robbers in Cobras and Eagles, oh and one Python. Maybe the problem is that I am in too low cost of a ship? They don't seem to spawn for little baby Vipers and DBSs. Maybe they'll spawn for my T9? Or maybe the problem is that I am in too high security of a system?