This is making Trading Impossible

[Boomer Kay]

Also, PIP management is useless if you want to escape. Because if you put all pips to shields then you're slow and can't escape.

To make the T9 "fast", you'd have to put .. 128 pips into engine (roundabout) .
That thing boosts slower than some ships 2-pip cruise speed.
So no, you don't need 4 pips in engines. You're not going to run from anything anywhere.
Shields, boosters and highwake as soon as FSD is off cooldown. ^^

Unless your ship is actually fast (Cobra MK3 and anything with 2.1 engineer mods) and can significantly outrun the opponent, before it's tiny shields drops .. boost is the same top speed regardless of pips in engines. Pips in engines refreshes boost significantly quicker, but if your ship is not able to outrun the enemy, you might as well put those 4 pips into the coffeemaker.

 

[Don Alvarez]

It has nothing to do with being a casual gamer or being amazing at fighting. 3 simple steps - fit shield boosters, 4 pips in SYS when under fire (even when running away), high wake

You take the high wake, and I'll take the low wake,
And I'll be in Scotland afore ye...

 

[GTwannabe]

Don't fight when trading. When you receive an interdiction message, drop down. 4 pips to engines, 2 to shields. Immediately zero throttle and boost laterally because the NPC always drops in an arbitrary distance in front of you. Spool your FSD and put 4 pips into shields when you start taking fire.

 

[micky1984]

You fire your weapons when taking evasive maneuvers or following an escape procedure? So you transfer pips into weapons when you have a full WEP capacitor and your shields are taking hits?

It's not hard, simple pip management.

clearly it is hard or we would not be seeing so many frankly shocking pilots that have learned nothing except how to hide in solo with week AI opponents

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I did haul a bunch of mined very valuable stuff across the bubble in my Tradeconda with Class 4 Shields, all did go well. So a tradebuild still works, even tough the class 4 shields is maybe stressing it a bit, but since npcs don't have mods anymore I tough I keep on trying it with those shields and just mod boosters and the shields for more shieldstrenght.

And crazy thing is I got more then 20ly jumprange fullly laden on just a grade 4 fsd mod. That and how states effect markets improves trading compared to 2.0 quite a bit.

 

[thorn-]

I agree with the OP and it's ridiculous that even traders have to outfit their ships to combat.

Why is that ridiculous? Why is there a belief that traders somehow exist in a "no assault/kills allowed" zone?

 

[markuslig]

I had some problems with a Elite NPC in FAS interdicted me a few days ago, i was in my Conda, but anyway, i couldnt get his shields down, i was spamming Shield cells and so was he, but mine ran out. so i had to get out of there, lol
It was a weird encounter, Anyone knows if they have unlimited ammo for these things?

Today i had my trusty old T9 out on some trading, I had some success using mines to get away actually, just boost and drop drop drop drop. The interdictors apparently decided it was time to leave when they started to take damage, even destroyed a few. Did Not meet any Elite NPC's
Almost everytime they got my shields down and did a lill bit of hull damage, but it was better than i thought. Gonna try it a bit more and see how it goes

 

[KevinMillican]

Now forgive me for any incorrect assumptions I make - but I would assume it was earned against the older, less aggressive AI. Which means that you, as an Elite Combat Rated pilot, are now very attractive to the Elite NPCs - who now come complete with "buttkicker" AIs.

So many of us got used to the older AI, earned high combat ratings against them, even if our primary trade was, well, trade. And therein lies the problem in my opinion - the problem which would be somewhat self-limited with the new AI, because nowadays a 100% trader would be less likely to climb quickly up the Combat rankings and therefore less likely to attract Elite-level NPCs.

There's an element of truth to what you say here.
I have not lost to an NPC yet in anything other than a taxi ship, but the fights are much tougher and I've had a lot more repair bills.

The dramatic change to AI ability is a bit of a downer to both veterans and newbies:

• Veterans find their Elite combat rating devalued because it's obvious that it would take a lot longer now.
• Newbies see an even bigger hurdle in ranking up because the NPCs just take longer to kill now and you have to leave combat areas to get repairs and ammunition more often (relative to number of kills).

I welcome the new AI overall but IMHO it would have been better to reduce the number of Elite/Deadly NPCs so that you mainly encountered them in assassination missions and CZs. This would have enabled the new real challenge, whilst not changing the base game so much that it feels like a different game.

 

[Bigglesof206]

I agree with the OP and it's ridiculous that even traders have to outfit their ships to combat. Way too many interdictions everywhere. Also, PIP management is useless if you want to escape. Because if you put all pips to shields then you're slow and can't escape. If you put pips to engines then the AI depletes your shields in seconds and then immediately shoots out your FSD. The game has become too combat focused, that's the problem here. People who like this godlike AI should find it but everyone shouldn't be forced to cope with this.

While I'd agree that the game is becoming more combat focussed, and I'd prefer FD to find a way to do that without causing the non-combat players such grief, I can't agree with your description of PIP management. In pretty much any cargo ship you aren't going to escape by speeding away from the NPC, you're going to escape by letting your shields protect you for long enough for your FSD to spool up and either high wake (safe option) or low wake (often more useful, but riskier) out of the fight.

This can go awry if you have an FSD fail causing a much longer FSD timer, and if you low wake out then you can be mass locked - but putting pips to shields should give you ample time to spool up and high wake to another system with no worries about mass locking etc. There is then of course a chance of the NPC following your wake, but it's not all that common and there are options to give you a good chance to deal with that.

If you low wake you can of course be shot to hell before you get to SC, and if you've just flown several thousand ls to a station and been interdicted 0. ls from the station it is VERY tempting to low wake rather than High wake, but that's the gamble you take.

I do agree that life for a cargo pilot is not much fun right now, although experiences seem to vary on this - leading me to wonder if the game is actually working the eway FD intended it to, or if there are some less obvious bugs in there that nobody noticed becuause we were too busy yelling about NPCs running eng modded ships?

Dave

 

[KevinMillican]

Don't fight when trading. When you receive an interdiction message, drop down. 4 pips to engines, 2 to shields. Immediately zero throttle and boost laterally because the NPC always drops in an arbitrary distance in front of you. Spool your FSD and put 4 pips into shields when you start taking fire.

Seriously decreases the fun if you ALWAYS have to run.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

The dramatic change to AI ability is a bit of a downer to both veterans and newbies:

• Veterans find their Elite combat rating devalued because it's obvious that it would take a lot longer now.
• Newbies see an even bigger hurdle in ranking up because the NPCs just take longer to kill now and you have to leave combat areas to get repairs and ammunition more often (relative to number of kills).

Not so sure about that, the progress I do in Conflict zones seems to be about the same as pre 2.1 now and ever since I reached deadly I only got more progress towards elite when I headed into CZ or RES since I hardly ever saw elite ranked npcs outside of them. Now I get attacked by elite npcs quite a lot while cruising about and even got a 1% increase while not being a combat zone.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Seriously decreases the fun if you ALWAYS have to run.

There's some decent armed trader builds where you don't have to run. (Things like a Cobra MK IV, Dropship, Clipper and of course the Vette with the right equipment can do both to some extent)
They just require even more piloting skill than pure trade or pure combat builds.

 

[777Driver]

Also, PIP management is useless if you want to escape. Because if you put all pips to shields then you're slow and can't escape. If you put pips to engines .

Sorry mate, If you think putting pips into shields whilst escaping is useless then you deserve to end up at the insurence screen. Pip management didn't suddenly appear when 2.1 rolled out, it has been in the game since the beginning. Correct pip management has been essential for traders in Open and PvP combat pilots.

It seems that many solo/private group players have been completely ignoring pip management all this time.

As far as large ships are concerned - T9/Anaconda/Cutter, you have boost on tap with 4 SYS 2 ENG configuration. Escaping via pure speed only works for fast ships, even then it's still a risk.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Seriously decreases the fun if you ALWAYS have to run.

You don't have to run, I've posted numerous videos demonstrating that.

 

[Droid8Apple]

Learn to put 4 pips in shields, add boosters. Half the player base got what they wanted and the AI is incredibly easy - As long as you configure your ship correctly. There is no reason for anyone in a T9/Anaconda/Cutter to fear Elite NPC's.

The most frustrating thing I find about this whole AI drama is that people don't seem to be willing to at least try and learn some defensive tactics. What is so hard about setting 4 pips when under fire and fitting shield boosters at the nearest dock?

It has nothing to do with being a casual gamer or being amazing at fighting. 3 simple steps - fit shield boosters, 4 pips in SYS when under fire (even when running away), high wake

1) How do you know how many pips he had? If he's in the middle of a circle fight against an FDL while he was in a python, it's safe to assume if anything he has 2 pips in engines. If he put 4 in SYS then how can he fight?

2) IIRC, don't the best boosters weigh 3.5t each? I don't use them really, but last I remember they did. That's a lot of weight for some ships and can make the difference between 2 jumps and 3... and in trading that's a big deal.

3) Can a FDL mass-lock a python? I know for sure that it can boost 52-60ish m/s faster assuming the python didn't have mil-spec bulkheads.

777- usually I'd expect someone announcing that in their name to not judge someone; I understand you might be fed up hearing about the AI but would it be hard to take a nicer approach? Even if you did so already to 50 other people this CMDR still deserves respect. This place is so hostile anymore.

 

[Boomer Kay]

2) IIRC, don't the best boosters weigh 3.5t each? I don't use them really, but last I remember they did. That's a lot of weight for some ships and can make the difference between 2 jumps and 3... and in trading that's a big deal.

errr...
Tradeconda with empty utility spots jumprange: 20,55
Tradeconda with 6x shield booster, 2x point defence totalling 600 more shield: 20,14

No Booster

Spoiler

BH: 1I Lightweight Alloy
RB: 7D Power Plant
TM: 7D Thrusters
FH: 6A Frame Shift Drive
EC: 5D Life Support
PC: 7D Power Distributor
SS: 8D Sensors
FS: 5C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 32)

7: 7E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 128)
6: 6E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 64)
6: 6A Shield Generator
6: 6E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 64)
5: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
5: 5E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 32)
5: 5E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 32)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
2: 2E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 4)
---
Shield: 502,34 MJ
Power : 14,46 MW retracted (64 %)
14,46 MW deployed (64 %)
22,50 MW available
Cargo : 388 T
Fuel : 32 T
Mass : 648,0 T empty
1.068,0 T full
Range : 32,28 LY unladen
20,55 LY laden
Price : 182.859.490 CR
Re-Buy: 9.142.975 CR @ 95% insurance

Booster

Spoiler

U: 0A Shield Booster
U: 0A Shield Booster
U: 0A Shield Booster
U: 0A Shield Booster
U: 0A Shield Booster
U: 0A Shield Booster
U: 0I/T Point Defence
U: 0I/T Point Defence

BH: 1I Lightweight Alloy
RB: 7D Power Plant
TM: 7D Thrusters
FH: 6A Frame Shift Drive
EC: 5D Life Support
PC: 7D Power Distributor
SS: 8D Sensors
FS: 5C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 32)

7: 7E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 128)
6: 6E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 64)
6: 6A Shield Generator
6: 6E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 64)
5: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
5: 5E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 32)
5: 5E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 32)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
4: 4E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 16)
2: 2E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 4)
---
Shield: 1.105,15 MJ
Power : 22,06 MW retracted (98 %)
22,06 MW deployed (98 %)
22,50 MW available
Cargo : 388 T
Fuel : 32 T
Mass : 670,0 T empty
1.090,0 T full
Range : 31,26 LY unladen
20,14 LY laden
Price : 184.582.610 CR
Re-Buy: 9.229.131 CR @ 95% insurance

7A Shield Generator offers 200 more shield (less than 20% more) for 64 cargo less, so might be worth skipping.

And yea, no weapons .. with that tradebanana you're not going to fight anything anyway.

 

[Oh Seven Commander]

This...I actually feel safer after I've paid off a pirate. They tend to protect their cattle.

I pirated you once!

 

[Tenshi]

Gone are the days of flying with subpar or no shields. Tonight I had a 20 minute fight with a single Eagle npc which was master rank, I was flying a Cobra MKIV, I had trouble keeping up with the turn rate of the Eagle npc and its the first time I spent an entire fight with 4 pips to systems and half in engines and half in weapons to allow my boosters and weapons to recharge as I tried to get a bead on the Eagle.

With a combination of FA off and on with boosters to help my turn rate I managed to kill it. This new AI is sorting the chaff from the wheat in terms of who is actually Elite or not. Man up or delete the save game and start over.

 

[markuslig]

BoomerKay, no weapons?

 

[Boomer Kay]

BoomerKay, no weapons?

It's a tradeconda with D thrusters and D Power distributor.
Even if you manage to get something in your crosshair, you're running out of juice before you manage to get it's shields down.

 

[777Driver]

1) How do you know how many pips he had? If he's in the middle of a circle fight against an FDL while he was in a python, it's safe to assume if anything he has 2 pips in engines. If he put 4 in SYS then how can he fight?

2) IIRC, don't the best boosters weigh 3.5t each? I don't use them really, but last I remember they did. That's a lot of weight for some ships and can make the difference between 2 jumps and 3... and in trading that's a big deal.

3) Can a FDL mass-lock a python? I know for sure that it can boost 52-60ish m/s faster assuming the python didn't have mil-spec bulkheads.

777- usually I'd expect someone announcing that in their name to not judge someone; I understand you might be fed up hearing about the AI but would it be hard to take a nicer approach? Even if you did so already to 50 other people this CMDR still deserves respect. This place is so hostile anymore.

1) He wasn't trying to fight, he damaged the ship in the first encounter, the other 3 encounters he was trying to escape.

2) Cmdr's in large ships are better off focusing on fuel management (not clicking refuel all on every dock) That saves a lot more weight than skimping on boosters. A few boosters give a miniscule impact on jump range.

3) Mass lock is irrelevant, jumping to another system bypasses the mass inhibition and prevents the NPC from following you. In certain cases an NPC will re-spawn in the next system, they are bounty hunters sent to find you.

Back in 1.3 the FDL couldn't mass lock the Python, no idea if that changed.