Disproportionate response by security.

[aRJay]

I think the chances of this sort of incident are hugely increased by the typical police tactics of trying to dock with the target vessel and defeat it from the inside.

 

[Mohrgan]

Ok lets put this another way, you see the police attacking a ship, you fly in to help and the cops loose missiles, you ignore that and keep flying and get hit, don't worry, its the cops fault.

What if instead of another cop its another bounty hunter, another player? whos fault is it then?

Let's just go all nuts with edge cases, shall we? The game is about us, the players. It's not about the NPC's. This mechanic is about keeping us honest, and posing what little threat to us there is. Ten minutes of RES farming is not Disproportionate. That is my position. You haven't changed it, I'm sorry. I thought another perspective might give you pause, it didn't. Good luck out there.

 

[srfrogg23]

As a mechanic I think it's there to create complexity. It happens often enough that you just fly for hours, devouring NPC's and claiming bounties. The mechanic in question breaks that cycle when you get complacent, tired, or un-lucky. How bad can it be if the only real cost is ten minutes in the naughty chair? I think the reaction to an interruption in the NPC farming due to a mistake or being tired, just as the OP explained it, is overblown. It's a simple wake up call to keep your affairs in order.

Each player has a scanner display that indicates where all of the ships in the area are, in front, behind, above and below. You can hear them as they fly in your proximity. You can see them in your field of view. I accept the mechanic as a reality check. Once you make the error, you get a big red "Wanted" label on your right hand status screen. That is the signal to go into your time out. The mechanic and response is not Disproportionate from this perspective. A 10 min break? Disproportionate?

Heh, this has to be the first time I've seen seen someone actually try to explain how this mechanic can be a good thing by talking about it as a game mechanic and the effect it has on the player.

I don't particularly agree though. To me it just makes that aspect of the game feel really clunky.

It's not even a question of "crime and punishment". It just feels like an arbitrary speed-bump to the gameplay when I have to scan every single ship that I can see Security attacking. It also doesn't account for the somewhat unpredictable nature of the AI during those firefights.

I've never intended to hit Security, and yeah, my trigger finger can get a bit itchy as my adrenaline starts flowing a bit.

Being blasted to dust or being declared a criminal because I shot a Wanted NPC a half-a-second before the scan was complete, or Security maneuvered between me and a Wanted target in the middle of the chaos seems like a huge overreaction.

I could see a substantial fine for attacking without completing the scan first, maybe. But, let's face facts, the game knows the NPC is Wanted. It should react as though you just shot a wanted target.

As for Security getting in the way and taking a hit? What would you say to me as a player if I demanded you be destroyed because I flew between you and your target?

You would probably tell me that I need to pay attention and watch where I'm going. And, that's how I feel about Security getting between me and my target. That was their fault.

So, yeah, I believe Security overreacts as things currently stand, and that overreaction adds very little, if any, value to the gameplay.

 

[Tulandros]

As for Security getting in the way and taking a hit? What would you say to me as a player if I demanded you be destroyed because I flew between you and your target?

You would probably tell me that I need to pay attention and watch where I'm going. And, that's how I feel about Security getting between me and my target. That was their fault.

So, yeah, I believe Security overreacts as things currently stand, and that overreaction adds very little, if any, value to the gameplay.

I tried that route to try and help understanding but its just an edge case and so doesn't matter. But yeah, very much the point i'm trying to make.

 

[DrakeAurum]

So, yeah, I believe Security overreacts as things currently stand, and that overreaction adds very little, if any, value to the gameplay.

Actually, I rather enjoy their presence, and the increased attention and awareness it demands of me. I respect them and watch my fire as I would (and do) if a winged-up player were in the fight with me. RES fights are up-close-and-personal brawls with multiple participants, and your loadout and tactics need to account for that. Bringing missiles to a RES is like bringing hand grenades to a knife fight.

 

[Pumabear8]

Or how about the simplest option learn to fight correctly and also learn situaltional awareness

Situation awareness is a moot point once a missile has be released, as he has pointed out in this thread, he had a clear shot, he has no control over the missile or the NPC ships

I'm pretty sure some people are deliberately ignoring this point just to have an argument.

 

[Tulandros]

Actually, I rather enjoy their presence, and the increased attention and awareness it demands of me. I respect them and watch my fire as I would (and do) if a winged-up player were in the fight with me. RES fights are up-close-and-personal brawls with multiple participants, and your loadout and tactics need to account for that. Bringing missiles to a RES is like bringing hand grenades to a knife fight.

As I said was trying out missles (a new loadout) for the first time since they are meant to have improved so I wasn't aware the general concensus is not to a res site. my bad, I'll own that one. BUT and this is a big but, the situation could be repeated and the same thing happen just this time its not a res site, this time i've been interdicted and I have missiles, i'm fighting away and the cops show up and they do the same thing, fly between me and my target. Who's at fault there? still me? Or as we have said already what if its a player that came to help and got in the way of my missiles, still my fault for not showing attention to my surroundings or that of the player flying blindly into the path of the missiles.

I actually like the cops being there as well, and yeah watch my fire if they fly between me and my target, that's a little hard to do when the missiles have already launched.

Call it an edge case if you will but its a testable, repeatable issue that can and has happened before and will probably happen again somewhere but perhaps not get reported because of this reception.

Never mind though right, I'll just git gud and complain about the grind like everyone else.

 

[Sapient6]

Walk up next to a cop, dressed as a civilian, and just start shooting your gun during a shootout in real life and see what the response is. I bet the cop would be "totally cool" with that...

Scanning a target seeks permission with the local authorities to open fire. When the scan comes back as WANTED you have received permission to open fire (that's why you get in trouble for shooting a wanted target prior to scanning).

 

[DrakeAurum]

As I said was trying out missles (a new loadout) for the first time since they are meant to have improved so I wasn't aware the general concensus is not to a res site. my bad, I'll own that one. BUT and this is a big but, the situation could be repeated and the same thing happen just this time its not a res site, this time i've been interdicted and I have missiles, i'm fighting away and the cops show up and they do the same thing, fly between me and my target. Who's at fault there? still me? Or as we have said already what if its a player that came to help and got in the way of my missiles, still my fault for not showing attention to my surroundings or that of the player flying blindly into the path of the missiles.

Turn it around. You're in a RES, fighting a pirate along with some wingmen. Your ship and weapons are best suited to close-up attack. Suddenly, as you're closing in, a missile streaks in from behind and off to the left and slams into your ship. Is that your fault?

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

first ship in the res, only been playing for 10 mins. Time out because the NPC flew between myself and the target doesn't make sense however you wrap it up.

I think you have fairly well described the situation and your point is quite reasonable. You don't need to keep arguing with those who disagree. There are people on the forums that will disagree with everything, just for the sake of arguing...

 

[Bacalao]

My favorite thing about this topic coming up are the absolutely ridiculous and terrible analogies. I just wish I had some popcorn.

 

[Marra Morgan]

To those who can't help shooting at cops - have you ever thought about a change in career?

Live the life of an Outlaw!
No more waiting around for scans or bothering with trigger discipline - shoot whoever you want!
Bounty schmounty - who cares!

I'm recruiting if you're interested

 

[Lasse B.]

Turn it around. You're in a RES, fighting a pirate along with some wingmen. Your ship and weapons are best suited to close-up attack. Suddenly, as you're closing in, a missile streaks in from behind and off to the left and slams into your ship. Is that your fault?

You can turn it any way you want. If you decide to get into the path of a weapon that's already on its way, it's your fault and nobody else's.

 

[DrakeAurum]

You can turn it any way you want. If you decide to get into the path of a weapon that's already on its way, it's your fault and nobody else's.

We're talking about a projectile that goes from launcher to target in less than a second. "Decide" doesn't come into it.

 

[SDSUsnowboards]

If you want something done, don't just identify the problem - identify the solution.

Good advice.

The solution for this problem is easy to implement: cops do not engage targets with a bounty lower than XXX. I'd suggest setting it at 900cr, which allows for a few friendly fire mistakes.

 

[Sergei Pavlov]

OP - It's your finger on the fire button and you are responsible for what your rounds hit.

I've had to run from numerous RES because of this. I don't like it, but I was responsible for it.

In real life, if you shoot an innocent person, you can argue he was in the line of fire, but that won't stop police from taking you into custody, and you will face a trial. Since ED doesn't have prisons, the only punishment against any crime is always death.

I think it makes sense, within the limitations of the game.

Regarding the issue: I am very careful when cops are around. If I am not sure the shot will land on target, I don't pull the trigger. It doesn't annoy me in the least, and I think it adds flavour and immersion to the game. When the odd shot hits a cop that came out of nowhere, I fly away shouting "Sorry!".

 

[Marra Morgan]

In real life,

Stopped reading there because it's not real life.

 

[Lasse B.]

We're talking about a projectile that goes from launcher to target in less than a second. "Decide" doesn't come into it.

Must have been quite the maneuverable and speedy cop ship if it managed to get hit by a missile that traveled for "less than a second" while the path was free.

 

[Becks]

In real life, if you shoot an innocent person, you can argue he was in the line of fire, but that won't stop police from taking you into custody, and you will face a trial. Since ED doesn't have prisons, the only punishment against any crime is always death.

I think it makes sense, within the limitations of the game.

Regarding the issue: I am very careful when cops are around. If I am not sure the shot will land on target, I don't pull the trigger. It doesn't annoy me in the least, and I think it adds flavour and immersion to the game. When the odd shot hits a cop that came out of nowhere, I fly away shouting "Sorry!".

In real life, the cops will also not allow you to help them shooting at criminals. Just saying ^^

 

[shadragon]

He's not responsible for a ship flying in the path of the missile, he had a clear shot, it's the AI ship that screwed up.

Cop shoots at a suspected bank robber and hits your son instead. Who is to blame?