'Attack of the AI' III

[HBK]

What are you calling 'constant'. I'm assuming that you don't mean chain interdictions by the same npc as a result of repeatedly going back to supercruise but separate interdictions by different npcs?

I had cargo in my Asp (so to speak) last night and had a total of five interdictions in I think 35 jumps. I don't think that's excessive, so are you seeing a higher proportion than that? Are you always carrying high value cargo? Always flying through anarchy systems with wars raging in them? Pledged in powerplay?

I'm talking multiple interdictions per hour. Especially when carrying cargo. Usually moderately valuable cargo, I'm no trader, only stuff picked up on planets. On any kind of system (hi-sec only means the police pop up sooner). Also, random interdictions by people wanting my cargo when I have none, or simply wanting to kill me. Always been that way. I'm unpledged. Before this patch I could usually dispose of the opposition as I tend to fly combat fitted ships. Now (sometimes, not always) I'm facing overclocked Cobras, or worse, Pythons, that can pop my shields as if they were made of paper. I never died, I could always maneuver in order to flee with minimal hull damage, but still, it doesn't feel right at all.

I'm happy for those who obviously have no issue, but, you see, it's the usual internet response, someone says he got diagnosed a heart disease and you always have someone to answer that his own heart is doing fine. Well, good for him.

 

[777Driver]

Keeping him 2km+ away just means it takes him 10-15s to take down my shields, instead of under 5s. Usually that's not enough for the FSD cool down, or if I submit, to cool down faster and jump back out, whether local system (mass lock, although if I can keep him 2km+ away, usually not) or far (no mass lock). Either way, I die ... and the RNG/chance is almost beyond laughable.

I think my favorite will be getting nearly full FSD charge and him hitting my FSD at 89% hull.

For start you shouldn't be trying to keep your attacker 2km+ away, you are just making yourself an easy target. am willing to bet if you posted a video we could easily pinpoint a few simple mistakes you are making, if you don't want to post on the forum just PM it to me.

 

[CMDR_TheBS]

For start you shouldn't be trying to keep your attacker 2km+ away, you are just making yourself an easy target. a willing to bet if you posted a video we could easily pinpoint a few simple mistakes you are making, if you don't want to post on the forum just PM it to me.

So I should let him get close and a mass lock instead? Or go for a cross-system jump and even more time to get me in close?

I mean, dude, even with chaff -- if I even fire it in time -- under 5 seconds to take down my shields if he's under 1km. At 2km+, he is not hitting me remotely as much, and I get maybe 15s. It's not long enough to cool down and jump again if I don't submit to interdiction, but it's a good start and close to being able to jump if I do submit and immediately boost after interdiction.

I cannot afford another insurance claim with anything but an Asp or Vulture now. Pythons are now too expensive.

 

[frostypaw]

And you had the money to replace them, right? Because if you can afford a Corvette, you're well beyond us.

I see why you're choosing to respond to Becks rather than me.

I can't see how blipping your thrusters up or down is causing such dramatic losses in speed that you're getting caught up? Are you constantly thrusting? If you follow any constant line/pattern it's going to be easier to predict and track

I know, but some people have been saying most of us should be well beyond that. I'm running into a lot of anecdotal evidence that those of us with 50-150M credits, who have upgraded to a Python or similar ship beyond an Asp, but not quite an Anaconda, are seeing a lot of constant Dangerous/Deadly/Elite combat ships on us over and over again.

Perhaps the lesson is that you've simply gone to a Python too early - I have similar assets and would not consider a Python yet for love nor money much as I find them sexy as - it's just not affordable at that level. If we give you Asp/Cobra builds that you could try would you?

 

[Marra Morgan]

Try a Python, be Expert and Mine/Trade where you're giving up components, and a 5M+ insurance claim every time you die (sorry, but the Asp barely 1-2M).

I've watched 10+ hours of video just the past week, got on, and I'm still having the marginalized experiences that people like yourself don't want to admit. Python 6A+0A Booster shields down in 4 seconds, FSD taken out within 1 second after shields down, dead in another 3-4. Too many insurance claims to count now.

This will be my last post, as I won't be attempting the game until later in the year. I have very limited time to game, and the last 12 hours have been pure frustration with nearly half of my total worth lost in insurance claims and not 1 mission completed.

Yeah I fly a Python. It's not really rigged out for combat, more for smuggling and defence.
I do smuggling jobs for my anarchist faction, through low-sec and lawless space. I'm Dangerous in rank, so I get Deadly and Elites sent after me. Quite often.
I haven't lost the Python yet. Not because I'm an ace at combat, I'm far from it. But because playing in Open for 18 months taught me the simple steps to evade a fight I know I can't win.

This thread and many others are chock-full of advice from players much better than myself - read them and learn, or don't and give it a rest.

 

[Becks]

And you had the money to replace them, right? Because if you can afford a Corvette, you're well beyond us.

Apparently not in my case. Chaff and corkscrew doesn't work for me. Furthermore ...

I lost 144 million in four rebuys. That dented my assets a lot.

That's funny, because the corkscrew alone saved my shieldless travel hauler from Elite NPCs. The corkscrew is not about fleeing from the enemy. It's about getting not hit.

I use lateral thrusters, but it also takes away from forward speed, so I have to vary. Trying to keep the enemy 2km away at the same time as boosting and corkscrewing means lateral is going to let him get closer. So I cannot keep lateraling all the time.

Like I said above, the corkscrew is not about fleeing. That's why you should get ready to wake when using it.

Also doesn't matter if I'm mining and he jumps and and takes my shields down in seconds, well before I can even get away from the mass lock of the field. I don't think you guys realize that we're dead any more, even if we're 0.1Ls away from the nearest RES. They find us, and take us out.

Are you mining in a RES? If yes, stop doing it. Drop somewhere outside of the RES into the ring instead. If no, I don't believe you. Usually com chatter indicates a attack quite a time before the actual attack starts and NPCs don't just show up out of nowhere near you.

I know, but some people have been saying most of us should be well beyond that. I'm running into a lot of anecdotal evidence that those of us with 50-150M credits, who have upgraded to a Python or similar ship beyond an Asp, but not quite an Anaconda, are seeing a lot of constant Dangerous/Deadly/Elite combat ships on us over and over again.

How or at what pace your playing is your business. Your's alone. So don't listen to like "You played a year, you should have a conda. Noob. lulz. Git gud.". I've had quite a few Deadly/Elite interdictions, too. Far more than usual. I've enjoyed them but I understand that they're maybe too hard for the usual player. I don't know what causes them and I'm sure it's not intended to hound Elite NPCs on Competent players

Which explains the problem. You guys assume that's what we do. I've lateraled all over the place, rolled, kicked off chaff, and saw him close. So I try to pace my laterals now, but it really doesn't matter.
Keeping him 2km+ away just means it takes him 10-15s to take down my shields, instead of under 5s. Usually that's not enough for the FSD cool down, or if I submit, to cool down faster and jump back out, whether local system (mass lock, although if I can keep him 2km+ away, usually not) or far (no mass lock). Either way, I die ... and the RNG/chance is almost beyond laughable.

I think my favorite will be getting nearly full FSD charge and him hitting my FSD at 89% hull.

If you can't fight the interdiction, ALWAYS submit. It shortens your FSD cooldown significantly. Then put 4 pips to sys and 2 to eng if you don't want to fight the NPCs. The 4 pips on sys boost your shields with 250%. The rest is corkscrew, boost and charge. If he interdicts you again after a lowwake, highwake the next time you submit to his interdiction. Masslock only applies when the ships around you have more mass than yours, try to avoid low waking when you have enemy ships around you.

Edit: It may sound like I'm criticizing you, but I actually try to help you.

 

[777Driver]

So I should let him get close and a mass lock instead? Or go for a cross-system jump and even more time to get me in close?

I mean, dude, even with chaff -- if I even fire it in time -- under 5 seconds to take down my shields if he's under 1km. At 2km+, he is not hitting me remotely as much, and I get maybe 15s. It's not long enough to cool down and jump again if I don't submit to interdiction, but it's a good start and close to being able to jump if I do submit and immediately boost after interdiction.

I cannot afford another insurance claim with anything but an Asp or Vulture now. Pythons are now too expensive.

First thing put 'Git gud' out of your mind and try to take this as friendly advice.

You are flying a Python - Here is basic cargo build that is impossible to die in unless you are closing your eyes,shutting down shields and counting to 10, you can reconfigure it for mining quite easily. Also keep in mind I have posted videos of trade builds with far less shielding that can survive for minutes against Elite rank ships.

https://coriolis.io/outfit/python/0...20201.Iw18eQ==.AwiMI4CYcvKA?bn=Trading Python

You don't need weapons in the above build, I'd personally put missiles and a torp launcher for some fun, most would suggest mines for a hassle free interdiction.

Here are the very basics.

ALWAYS keep 4 PIPS in SYS unless you are in full control of the situation and are experienced enough to start moving them around to get a tactical advantage.

1. If you see one of those annoying messages 'Tasty cargo.. Blah blah' Throttle back, drop into normal space, line up with your destination and jump.

2. If you are interdicted - throttle back, 4 PIPS in SYS, lock another system, maneuver towards the attacker, use additional thrusters to vary the maneuvering curve and make yourself a harder target. Boost towards the attacker, as soon as you pass him, repeat the maneuver, line up, boost towards the attacker. The aim is to spend as little time as possible directly in its gunsights, and force him to keep moving. The entire time you are doing this your cool down is running & your FSD should be charging for a high wake (No Mass lock).

3. Low waking because you are near to your destination - If you are mass locked (Inhibition factor)and don't want to jump to another system, you'll need to make a judgment call. If you have got the hang of boosting past the target with 4 pips, you can hang around long enough to deal with the slower FSD charge, the cops will normally turn up to assist. Only take that option if you are in control, an extra minute of performing a high wake and flying back is better than an insurance screen.

The most important thing is to not give the NPC too much distance, you become an easy target. Only incredibly fast ships can survive purely on running, even then they need to Keep 4 PIPS in SYS, combine that with lateral and vertical thrust until they are out of weapons range.

A trick I learnt with mining (I always drop out well away from the main RES sites) I'll drop early, guaranteed the game will still spawn a ship nearby. I enter silent running and boost off over the top of the ring, shutdown systems to ice the ship up, disable silent running and cruise along the top of the rings with FA-OFF, at this point the AI is unable to resolve my contact, I startup the systems and dive into rings, can spend hours mining with no hassle.

 

[CMDR_TheBS]

Love these types of basic reading comprehension issues ...

I don't think you guys realize that we're dead any more, even if we're 0.1Ls away from the nearest RES.

Are you mining in a RES? If yes, stop doing it. Drop somewhere outside of the RES into the ring instead.

So ... is this the point in the movie where I look into the camera, instead of responding to you, after you assert something I said before that I did not do!

Of course I never go into a RES. You think I'm that much of a noob? That's why I said ... I'm not just 100s of Kms away, not just several Mms away ... but 0.1Ls+ away!

The second anything gets on my radar, I'm gone! But he always closes within 15-20s, and I'm no where near away from mass lock. Then I'm dead in another 15-20s.

I use lateral thrusters, but it also takes away from forward speed, so I have to vary. Trying to keep the enemy 2km away at the same time as boosting and corkscrewing means lateral is going to let him get closer. So I cannot keep lateraling all the time.

I can't see how blipping your thrusters up or down is causing such dramatic losses in speed that you're getting caught up? Are you constantly thrusting? If you follow any constant line/pattern it's going to be easier to predict and track

I'm not a noob. Stop assuming I am one. Of course I'm blipping my thrusters, changing direction, etc...

Seriously guys ... this ^^^ is what we're talking about! You not only talk down to us, but you don't stop to listen to what we are saying, and re-cover the same crap over and over.

I'm starting to think you guys have ever mined in 2.1+. It's pretty much a death sentence at this point.


Now ... let's talk about noobs, the ones new to the game. They are so f'd compared to even guys like me.

 

[Ziljan]

Escape advice is really ship specific. Corkscrews work better on smaller ships. However they do slow you down as well. I would advise using lateral thrusters only when actually being fired upon. And use the rest of the time to gain distance with more straight line boost.

Small fast ships escape better with 4 pips to ENG and 2 pips to SYS.

Big ships can't dodge fire, or run away. So they do better with 4 pips to SYS and 2 pips to ENG. The pips can be shifted to ENG when not being fired upon, since the important thing about pips for SYS isn't regen but rather the strengthening the shields.

Pythons are kind of strange. They're a bit like Cobras in that they either have a large or a tiny hit box depending on the angle of attack. If you present the target with thinnest face, you'll take far less damage. However if you turn in a way that lets them hit the flat side of your ship, your paper shields will be lit on fire. The Python isn't very agile, and its tankiness is SCB or HRP dependant. You can either build it to slug it out with other high rank large ships, or as a multi role, but not really both. Not without Engineer upgrades anyway. You can still repel small ships though, quite easily.

 

[777Driver]

Now ... let's talk about noobs, the ones new to the game. They are so f'd compared to even guys like me.

You'll generally find it's not newbies complaining, more so long time players that are stuck in their ways and insist they are doing everything correct.

 

[frostypaw]

I'm not a noob. Stop assuming I am one. Of course I'm blipping my thrusters, changing direction, etc...

Seriously guys ... this ^^^ is what we're talking about! You not only talk down to us, but you don't stop to listen to what we are saying, and re-cover the same crap over and over.

I'm starting to think you guys have ever mined in 2.1+. It's pretty much a death sentence at this point.


Now ... let's talk about noobs, the ones new to the game. They are so f'd compared to even guys like me.

So how come this is dramatically affecting your speed but not mine? that was the question I asked if we can get to that.

The people who've started this fresh are not agreeing with you at all FYI - they appear to be loving it.

 

[Red Anders]

You guys have totally made your point ... you don't care about us at all.

You know what's really funny here? The fact that you can acknowledge that you're relatively new to the game and yet whenever someone who isn't tries to give you some help or advice you just tell them they're wrong or don't understand because we're all in battle condas.

(Edit Oh apparently you're not a noob? Plot twist...)

That Asp I was flying last night had a 3D shield on by the way. 71 MJ. Only Engineer mod was FSD range. One point defence. Lightweight bulkheads. So I'm fairly sure that I'm not wrong and I do understand.

That's why I look at your long list of requirements to survive the AI like A spec modules, 450 MJ of shields and 5-6 engineer mods (the only engineer mod on last night's Asp was FSD range...) I see someone who hasn't learned and isn't interested in learning.

Anyway yeah, I was just writing another longer post to address some of the stuff in your list but I've scrapped it after reading that comment above. Frankly, why the hell should I bother if that's the response?

 

[CMDR_TheBS]

First things put 'Git gud' out of your mind and try to take this a s friendly advice.
You are flying a Python - Here is basic cargo build that is impossible to die in unless you are closing your eyes,shutting down shields and counting to 10.

Oh boy, yet more noob-level advice. Sigh ...
Already 6A Shields. I used to use a A-spec, -1 size Thrusters and Distributor (to save on weight and jump range), but it wasn't enough.
So I'm already far, far more capable than this configuration.

Also ... where is my mining equipment?
And are you factoring in the increased power requirements for those?
Also ... no Point Defense? No Cell Banks and Heat Sink?
Ever even saved from a barrage thanx to a Point Defense unit?
What about Electronic Countermeasures in this game now?
Forget those too?

You don't need weapons in the above build, I'd personally put missiles and a torp launcher for some fun, most would suggest mines for a hassle free interdiction.

Yes, I've gone with mines now. That's the 1 suggestion I got from videos that I did adopt. But everything else here is so noob-level.

Here are the very basics.
ALWAYS keep 4 PIPS in SYS unless you are in full control of the situation and are experienced enough to start moving them around to get a tactical advantage.

So ... 4 SYS ... so no running? Er, what?

1. If you see one of those annoying messages 'Tasty cargo.. Blah blah' Throttle back, drop into normal space, line up with your destination and jump.

Er, um, again ... am I a noob? Seriously dude, if they are on my scanners, I pack up my cargo scoop, don't even say goodbye to my limpets and head for anything outside of mass lock that is away from them as best as I can. But ... it's never enough.

2. If you are interdicted, throttle back, 4 PIPS in SYS, lock another system, maneuver towards the attacker, use additional thrusters to vary the maneuvering curve and make yourself a harder target. Boost towards the attacker, as soon as you pass him, repeat the maneuver, line up, boost towards the attacker. The aim is to spend as little time as possible directly in its gunsights, and force him to keep moving. The entire time you are doing this your is running cool down & your FSD should be charging for a high wake (No Mass lock).

So ... don't run, right? Always combat, right?

Boost past him, FA off, rotate so you're flying backwards, hit him until he beads, then boost again past him, repeat ... right?
Yeah, that Dangerous/Deadly/Elite FGS/Cutter/etc... is going to eat me for breakfast in my mining Python.
No thanx!

A trick I learnt with mining (I always drop out well away from the main RES sites) I'll drop early, guaranteed the game will still spawn a ship nearby.

Yep. Hence ...

I enter silent running and boost off over the top of the ring, shutdown systems to ice the ship up, disable silent running and cruise along the top of the top of the rings with FA-OFF, at this point the AI is unable to resolve my contact, I startup the systems and dive into rings, can spend hours mining with no hassle.

I've done that, but ... I've find it is just a lot easier to fire up the FSD and pick another location. After 2-3 jump ins, and waiting 5-10 minutes to ensure nothing is around, it's usually been good.

But not with 2.1+. So, again, are you mining in 2.1+?

 

[Becks]

Love these types of basic reading comprehension issues ...

So ... is this the point in the movie where I look into the camera, instead of responding to you, after you assert something I said before that I did not do!

Of course I never go into a RES. You think I'm that much of a noob? That's why I said ... I'm not just 100s of Kms away, not just several Mms away ... but 0.1Ls+ away!

The second anything gets on my radar, I'm gone! But he always closes within 15-20s, and I'm no where near away from mass lock. Then I'm dead in another 15-20s.

I'm not a noob. Stop assuming I am one. Of course I'm blipping my thrusters, changing direction, etc...

Seriously guys ... this ^^^ is what we're talking about! You not only talk down to us, but you don't stop to listen to what we are saying, and re-cover the same crap over and over.

I'm starting to think you guys have ever mined in 2.1+. It's pretty much a death sentence at this point.

Now ... let's talk about noobs, the ones new to the game. They are so f'd compared to even guys like me.

I asked that because I'm not believing you. I'm mining right now. At the moment. And I haven't had a single NPC attack me since I started here yesterday. Let alone one spawning, closing in in 20 seconds and then starting firing right after the scan. So much for 'pretty much a death sentence at this point'.

I don't know what you want. Probably just venting or complaining about the game and how unfair it is to you. Certainly you don't want advice. I'll give you one though: Stop making crap up.

 

[Red Anders]

You'll generally find it's not newbies complaining, more so long time players that are stuck in their ways and insist they are doing everything correct.

True that. Newbies tend to ask, it's the people who don't think they need to ask who are making most of the noise now.

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I asked that because I'm not believing you. I'm mining right now. At the moment. And I haven't had a single NPC attack me since I started here yesterday. Let alone one spawning, closing in in 20 seconds and then starting firing right after the scan. So much for 'pretty much a death sentence at this point'.

I don't know what you want. Probably just venting or complaining about the game and how unfair it is to you. Certainly you don't want advice. I'll give you one though: Stop making crap up.

I honestly can't remember the last time I even saw an npc when I was mining other than in a res site, let alone got attacked by one.

But not with 2.1+. So, again, are you mining in 2.1+?

Yep.

Funny isn't it, how you're the one who keeps getting blown up but we're the ones who don't know what we're on about.

 

[CMDR_TheBS]

You know what's really funny here? The fact that you can acknowledge that you're relatively new to the game and yet whenever someone who isn't tries to give you some help or advice you just tell them they're wrong or don't understand because we're all in battle condas. (Edit Oh apparently you're not a noob? Plot twist...)

Beyond argumentative and missing the point.

I'm not Elite, but I'm not a noob. Everything you guys are suggesting ... I've already done!

That Asp I was flying last night had a 3D shield on by the way. 71 MJ. Only Engineer mod was FSD range. One point defence. Lightweight bulkheads. So I'm fairly sure that I'm not wrong and I do understand.

Well, I would have had 71 shields taken down in less than a second in the type of guys that get me.

That's why I look at your long list of requirements to survive the AI like A spec modules, 450 MJ of shields and 5-6 engineer mods (the only engineer mod on last night's Asp was FSD range...) I see someone who hasn't learned and isn't interested in learning.

Apparently I'm an idiot then ... and a liar.

Anyway yeah, I was just writing another longer post to address some of the stuff in your list but I've scrapped it after reading that comment above. Frankly, why the hell should I bother if that's the response?

Because you guys haven't been hitting YouTube and seeing the types of things happening to some of us.

We're getting jumped by Dangerous/Deadly/Elite FGS/Cutters/etc... with regularity, and where we cannot escape. I've tried running. I've tried fighting. It's the same result. Even if I survive, the next one finally gets me, before I can get to a station.

 

[777Driver]

True that. Newbies tend to ask, it's the people who don't think they need to ask who are making most of the noise now.

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I honestly can't remember the last time I even saw an npc when I was mining other than in a res site, let alone got attacked by one.

This guy is impossible to help. The rest of us survive whilst they complain. No point offering anymore advice, he obviously knows what he's doing, hence why he's so familiar with that insurance screen

 

[CMDR_TheBS]

I honestly can't remember the last time I even saw an npc when I was mining other than in a res site, let alone got attacked by one.

Have you guys mined in 2.1+?!?!?!

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I asked that because I'm not believing you.

Yes, I know.

I'm mining right now. At the moment. And I haven't had a single NPC attack me since I started here yesterday.

Then it sounds like Frontier is scaling back the randomness on the server. I haven't played in over a week because I'm at the point I cannot afford a Python.

Certainly you don't want advice. I'll give you one though: Stop making crap up.

Just like a lot of us who are posting on YouTube.

 

[777Driver]

Have you guys mined in 2.1+?!?!?!

Yes, I mine in a T9 with 540MJ of shields..

 

[Marra Morgan]

Apparently I'm an idiot then ... and a liar.

Well, it might have crossed my mind, tbh.