No they didn't remove anything from 'Robigo'.
Changes were made though. Such as increasing the cargo from 10's to 100's to limit the stacking of missions.
Mode switch change? Same exact mission list for me
- Thread starter jacozilla
- Start date
No they didn't remove anything from 'Robigo'.
Changes were made though. Such as increasing the cargo from 10's to 100's to limit the stacking of missions.
*TL-DR: Is using hyper jumps an 'exploit'?
read hypothetical below
well I'm certainly not going to claim mode switching is a right, and even more so will easily concede FD can call whatever they wish an exploit, not an exploit, then change their confused minds and call it exploit again while ignoring an equally similar scenario with no comment.
I will say that is rather detrimental to confuse their own customers, but it is obviously their game. As customers, we can vote with our wallets, but i don't dispute as the game creators they are the final arbiters of what is and isn't 'exploiting' or 'not by design'. I don't concede any player can do the same just by yelling loud enough with whomever they disagree or claiming they somehow know inside FD intent.
Re: mission board switching I have no vested stake - I do run LR missions, do stack missions, but since it seems they tuned it to be self limiting (much greater cargo volume + max 20 missions - which is bit redundant since the cargo volume change effectively does it and more), it doesn't really allow for much mode switch stacking anyways since generally cargo is full with couple boards.
with the need for engineering RNG mission mats, it's better to just run local missions to earn those mats while you wait for refresh anyways.
re: planet mat scrounging and instance resetting for rocks - I concede it too can be an exploit if your definition is any time savings similar to mission board refresh. I don't agree with the opinion but no problem with the consistent application of that logic if that is a person's opinion. But yep, I just started doing this based on prospector's advice and will continue to do this until and unless FD makes clear statement similar to combat logging.
RNG mats plus RNG crafting may be by design, but until FD clearly tells me to stop - no way in heck am I adding the pain of RNG spawns of the rocks on top of that.
RES resets - no skin in the game, but I support anyone who does it until again FD clearly communicates to stop ala combat logging.
to anyone that replied with actual reasons or support to their opinion - agree to disagree but respect your opinion as valid as mine. To those who clearly could not debate on the substance so had to throw commandments and redirects - egg omelettes. It makes as much supported sense as your non supported pokes.
i leave this hypothetical - if a player using their brain to adapt a given game function 'as is', in order to gain time advantage, is considered exploiting - without what we'd all deem a hack or insertion of non game coded function - then chew over this:
Player Bob receives mission in system A to goto system B - to salvage some stuff near a planet.
-he gets to system B - and finds the one main station is very close to jump exit, a nice ~500 LS.
-he also finds planet he needs to salvage near is 300k LS away around a distant local star, grits his teeth, and reads a book while his ship plods there in SC
-after successful salvage the RNG gods smile upon him because lo and behold the mission NPC emails and says 'change of destination - we need you to drop off salvage at system B - main station.
So hypothetical question - if you were player Bob - would you:
a) supercruise back at relative snails pace the 300k LS to main station?
b) or realize that clever player you are, you can save time by using the in game function to hyper jump anywhere within code limited range and fuel distance rules, and simply plot nav -> jump back to system A, cool down, jump back to system B - and voila - pop out a mere 500 LS to the changed destination.
is this time saving move an 'exploit'?
Just as with mission boards, RES, and planet mat resets, the adaptation of existing game function was to gain a time advantage.
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No it didn't
It comes down to using an external not in-universe mechanism in a way inconsistent with it's intended purpose to circumvent behavior in the universe meant to be a barrier to players for your gain. Whether FDev had the foresight (it obviously doesn't) to handle the situation or takes their time to address it...it doesn't change what it is.
You've basically found a situation that plays on the RNG aspect of the game and a means of resetting it quickly by misusing the exit to main menu option and changing modes. Saving time is fine and there are ways to do so without resorting to exploits, which such an action obviously is.
Not sure how to make it any clearer. You're circumventing an intended game behavior by abusing a feature who's purpose is completely unrelated and not intended to be used that way. This is different from actions made available in-universe. You're not smart or clever doing it. You're cheating.
You've basically found a situation that plays on the RNG aspect of the game and a means of resetting it quickly by misusing the exit to main menu option and changing modes. Saving time is fine and there are ways to do so without resorting to exploits, which such an action obviously is.
Not sure how to make it any clearer. You're circumventing an intended game behavior by abusing a feature who's purpose is completely unrelated and not intended to be used that way. This is different from actions made available in-universe. You're not smart or clever doing it. You're cheating.
People who argue over definition of exploits and defend them obviously use them happily. It´s cheating but don´t tell them or all hell breaks loose. Ups, too late
But again, it´s always the heavy grinders who don´t play the game but hurry towards some self defined goal.
Ok, let them, but I will never get that these guys dare to shout all around when their toys are taken away instead of "uhm, ok, too bad but I had my gains with it".
But again, it´s always the heavy grinders who don´t play the game but hurry towards some self defined goal.
Ok, let them, but I will never get that these guys dare to shout all around when their toys are taken away instead of "uhm, ok, too bad but I had my gains with it".
*sigh*
Mode switching hasn't gone [see my post on the first page]. It is to do with servers.
Now, carry on gents, as you were.
And I think we'd all be better served by discussing the merits of C3 multi-canons.
dakadakadakadakadakadakdakadaka
Is it possible the servers are just stuck today? Or for particular users? Or for specific stations - since I am at Sothis/Ceos today and no idea anywhere else.
Your answer sounded logical and probable, so I tested it. Over the last 90 min, I've mode switched and checked about ~20x but keep getting same server apparently.
In between those ~20 checks, I have quit, rebooted, released my DHCP IP, etc, the usual when checking server connections. I believe you - but right now it appears the OP is in effect at least for 1 account / for 1 system pair @ Sothis / CEOS / or just unique luck in constantly connecting to same server.
People who argue over definition of exploits and defend them obviously use them happily. It´s cheating but don´t tell them or all hell breaks loose. Ups, too late
But again, it´s always the heavy grinders who don´t play the game but hurry towards some self defined goal.
Ok, let them, but I will never get that these guys dare to shout all around when their toys are taken away instead of "uhm, ok, too bad but I had my gains with it".
People who can't apparently stand the thought anyone else can dare disagree with their opinion - which is all that it is until the game creator actually speaks - argue over anything and everything but the actual substance or merit of the debate.
They are obviously cheating themselves of a full and happy life, and all hell will break lose if you make them face this sad reality.
But again, it's always the teeth grinders who can't stand people playing the game different than their One-True-Way and ridicule instead of playing the game.
Obviously everything that is not proven is proven to these people, they don't dare to eat egg omelets and [insert other nonsensical declarations].
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Oh you were quite clear before, and are quite clear now. But saying something is so 'just because' , doesn't make it so.
The essence of your rationale is "which such an action obviously is.".
Valid opinion - as opinion. Doesn't make it true.
By your definition, anything and everything - including ones players find acceptable here but not acceptable there, are 'exploits' as well. Irrational at best, hypocrisy at worst. Take your pick.
Ah, well it might be fixed properly. See how it goes over the next few days?
But I need to hear more dakka from you, savvy?
Are you saying being Wikipedia definition says it is not an exploit the Devs should undo the fix to continue to allow you to do it?
Not in the slightest. It to me describes a solid definition of an exploit. The question in hand was 'is mode switching deemed an exploit?'.
Under those terms, which are debatable, yes it is. There is nothing in the quoted post to say it's not an exploit.
As it is, the game allows it, FD allows it. So it does not break any rules. My one saving grace, is I do not allow myself to do it.
Wrong, it's not my opinion that it's an exploit. It is by definition. What is opinion is that it's become a harmful exploit to the game as a whole. The fact that it's an exploit is not in question, even though you seem to want to make it so. It's the degree of harm it causes that is in question. Regardless you're still cheating if you do it.
Jump in a system and out all you want to reset RNG spawns, you're not doing anything with any aspect of the game that is not intended to behave that way. Use mode switching to do it much faster and you are misusing a feature of the game because that's not why mode switching is there and it circumvents barriers setup in the game by the developers, barriers that they placed with knowledge of the player's ability to jump in and out and what effect that will have but not with the knowledge of players using a loophole in an unrelated part of the game's mode options.
I'm pretty sure FD are glad some forum members are not part of the team, I can just imagine twitter and youtube exploding as people are banned for using a loophole start telling their story, talk about a PR disaster.
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My query is, be it exploit, or loop hole, or against the spirit of the game, if it has been fixed by the devs, are people advocating undoing that fix.
That is what I am interested in, as it was interesting how people didn't like and wanted the return of the "Seeking Luxuries" that spawned but a light second from a station selling performance enhancers, when they was clearing not the intended design of the "Seeking Luxuries" signal sources
Personally I hope not, I can't speak for the majority.
What I find a worrying trend is these 'loopholes' being shared and becoming the norm on the forums/reddit because the normal fashion is too much grind.
The best option is to make the gameplay enjoyable to reach the targets. Look at Robigo, that got rinsed to the point Harmless CMDRs were flying Cutters or Corvettes.
Personally I don't mind, I've done 1,700 hours and now I'm casual. My progress is a blessing, not something I spend 40 hours a week stressing over.
But to answer your question, no, the game is too easy now to progress. Too many shortcuts, too many loopholes, too many exploits. That comes from a original Elite player that took 4 years to become 'ELITE'
Unsubstantiated claim. I would like to see your reasoning which made you .... ah ... Damn. 3rd time.No it didn't
Curse you limey reptile!
How can someone seriously argument if mode switching is an exploit or not? It's cleary an exploit by the definition of the word, otherwise we would need to assume that mode switching is desired gameplay. Do you think I played the game wrong because I didn't do any mode switching in the last 1,5 years? Because if it would be desired gameplay, I am not playing the game without mode switching? Why do you think it's not an exploit, because FDEV doesn't punish you? You will not get punished for it because FDEV doesn't care or doesn't have a fix ready, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit.
some people enjoy what others find tedious, and your Harmless CMDRs with very expensive ships = somehow abusing the system could be correct but you're lumping a whole lot of innocent into the accused bunch.
against pvp players is one thing but pre 2.1 vs NPCs, a pure 100% solo/möbius trader could do nil combat, escape virtually 99% of interdictions and/or just 100% submit-boost-run routine. Via the normal Sidey - hauler - adder - type 6-7-9 progression, a pure trader could earn anaconda money without ever running a single Robigo run and have very low combat rank.
And Robigo bug that some took advantage of to make billion+ credits was nerfed after mere 2-3 weeks. the infinite, low volume cargo + ability to dump mission cargo and just buy the common cargo at destination end to fulfill high paying long range smuggling missions was quickly patched out by FD, plus reduction of offered smuggling type missions.
cutters and corvettes also did not exist during that time of Robigo unless you are stating anyone who ran the legal Robigo runs with FD fixes in place = abuser as well and somehow did not 'earn' the credits for when cutters and corvettes did come available
At same time as Robigo bug, there were commanders making bids of endlessly 'rinsing' extremely high PP bonus bounty stacking and making same or better cr/hr as long range / smuggling runs. Did those commanders also not earn their large ship credits because they rinsed a PP bonus FD put in place?
Everyone should play the game as they want (if that includes exploits that aren't punishable I am fine with it), but those players should not complain when they loose their precious Cutter because they never learned how to play, also they should not complain about grinding just because they decided to skip 95% of the gameplay...