Mode switch change? Same exact mission list for me

[CMDR Crumpeteer]

-snip-

You seem to be more interested in quibbling over the definition of "exploit" (a word I never used), rather than discussing mode switching for missions, as per your thread title.

If FD could improve on the mechanics related to your other examples in order to make the galaxy feel more consistent, I'd be more than happy for them to do so. They may be too complex, or they may see improvement in the future.

 

[fennster]

Poppycock.
FD have a ranking system that makes you gain 12 rank increases to gain the ability to buy the Corvette or Cutter, each of which involves 100% progress through the rank whilst earning perhaps a half percent per mission. To rank up in ONE navy therefore requires you to fly something in the order of 2400 missions... I think anyone doing that is 'playing hard enough' without forcing them to wait for a couple of board refreshes just to collect one full load of missions.

If you gained rank for doing logical stuff for your power, delivering cargo, handing over exploration data, mining ores or killing pirates then at least people could do something other than the mind numbingly boring mission board grind - but while we are stuck with this silly method of progression then anything the game allows is fair game....and I would add, plain bloody common sense.

Exploit my small donkey like animal.

Dave

Still an exploit,

That intrinsically is the problem here. If you think quitting to the main menu and relogging to gain yourself rank with the Federation/Empire Navy is cool gameplay, lije what the hell, this game is doomed.

As for doing 2400 nondescript missions for rank, that's not cool either.

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And where YOU are falling short is whatever definition players via social convention, or devs via any time they wish because after all it is their game - wish to apply, it has to be one that can be:

a) articulated so as to be understood if it applies to A, it applies to B - otherwise it is arbitrary and contradictory if the same advantage used in A, is not considered the same offense in B.

b) consistent - such that again it is not a double standard where the same offense is 'exploit' here but same advantage used not an 'exploit' there.

I pointed out examples where FD has not communicated REZ zone resets or planet landing resets are exploits or not like with combat logging. Yet those same time saved advantages is the same in which apparently some players deem mission board resets as exploit.

So -

1. You calling it an exploit as if it were fact means nothing when clearly FD has shown they will define and punish things like combat logging but has said nothing about switching modes to spawn new mats or rez zones.

2. You saying it is not designed gameplay means nothing unless you wish to claim you work at FD and/or have seen FD material that states what is and what isn't designed gameplay.

You stating it is your opinion, that it is an exploit is fine. Just as my opinion is just that - an opinion. Until and unless FD specifically notes it like with combat logging. The distinction is I am not declaring a statement of fact ahead of any such communication from FD or inside dev knowledge as not an employee - but you apparently are.

Wiggle it around all you want, but you're basically declaring arbitrarily as if it were some established fact because you simply deem it so personally - fine, as an opinion but when you don't seem to concede the opposite opinion is equally valid until and unless FD officially states otherwise, that is the no logical thought from you, not the devs.

Well on that note, I shall leave it as personal opinion.

Regards. Fennster.

 

[jacozilla]

You seem to be more interested in quibbling over the definition of "exploit" (a word I never used), rather than discussing mode switching for missions, as per your thread title.

If FD could improve on the mechanics related to your other examples in order to make the galaxy feel more consistent, I'd be more than happy for them to do so. They may be too complex, or they may see improvement in the future.

I posted a topic. Someone made a thought out reply. I replied to his reply. Which part of this chain of events seem "quibbling"?

Good thing you're not an official board moderator - I mean, actually replying to someone's conversation with you on the topic you posted = negative connotation?

Sounds like something got a burr under your saddle or just woke up with crankiness and decided to lash out at whatever in random manner.

You also obviously missed that the main topic seemed to have been addressed because someone noted that apparently if the server you connect to doesn't change, then the missions don't refresh whether you switch modes or not. As I said, I don't really do this as I do local missions while waiting - for the all important engineering mats we're all obviously hunting for - so engaged in the reply to my post re: what was and wasn't an exploit.

Because you also missed that I just recently returned from 1.4 hiatus, am a new player to 2.1, and have no ego about saying - I am new to what may be a changed environment, have no idea what may or may not be bannable / punishable offenses now similar to combat logging ruling, so engaging in reasoned conversation.

Again, good thing you're not a board moderator. Discussing things as adults /= "quibbling" or whatever burr got under you saddle this morning.

 

[Darth Ender]

Still an exploit,

That intrinsically is the problem here. If you think quitting to the main menu and relogging to gain yourself rank with the Federation/Empire Navy is cool gameplay, lije what the hell, this game is doomed.

As for doing 2400 nondescript missions for rank, that's not cool either.

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Well on that note, I shall leave it as personal opinion.

Regards. Fennster.

This. Anyone arguing for this nonsense as not an exploit doesn't understand the game is meant to be played for years and if that's not your plan then you made a mistake in purchasing the game.

This is an exploit. Anyone doing it should be wiped or perm banned. Instead fdev will just fix it so mode switching doesn't have the desired effect in changing missions and allow the cheaters to find their next exploit. And make no mistake, fdev has addressed this as an exploit in live streams

 

[fennster]

I posted a topic. Someone made a thought out reply. I replied to his reply. Which part of this chain of events seem "quibbling"?

Good thing you're not an official board moderator - I mean, actually replying to someone's conversation with you on the topic you posted = negative connotation?

Sounds like something got a burr under your saddle or just woke up with crankiness and decided to lash out at whatever in random manner.

You also obviously missed that the main topic seemed to have been addressed because someone noted that apparently if the server you connect to doesn't change, then the missions don't refresh whether you switch modes or not. As I said, I don't really do this as I do local missions while waiting - for the all important engineering mats we're all obviously hunting for - so engaged in the reply to my post re: what was and wasn't an exploit.

Because you also missed that I just recently returned from 1.4 hiatus, am a new player to 2.1, and have no ego about saying - I am new to what may be a changed environment, have no idea what may or may not be bannable / punishable offenses now similar to combat logging ruling, so engaging in reasoned conversation.

Again, good thing you're not a board moderator. Discussing things as adults /= "quibbling" or whatever burr got under you saddle this morning.

I don't quite think you know what 'quibbling' means... Let me explain

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This. Anyone arguing for this nonsense as not an exploit doesn't understand the game is meant to be played for years and if that's not your plan then you made a mistake in purchasing the game.

This is an exploit. Anyone doing it should be wiped or perm banned. Instead fdev will just fix it so mode switching doesn't have the desired effect in changing missions and allow the cheaters to find their next exploit. And make no mistake, fdev has addressed this as an exploit in live streams

No, the official response is it is frowned upon. Why because they don't know how to resolve the issue.

 

[CMDR Crumpeteer]

-snip-

Not even sure what you're going on about. I told you what I thought about missions/mode switching, then I told you what I thought about the examples you gave. Now you're getting hung up on "quibbling", as if I somehow insulted you. Quibbling is not an insult, it's a valid word with a valid meaning (see: "argue or raise objections about a trivial matter.").

I wasn't being negative, I'm not cranky, and I haven't lashed out at anyone. That's exactly what you seem to be doing, however.

I'll not respond any further since, as you said, the main topic has been addressed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If mode switching to pickup missions FD themselves shows and gives you is an exploit - then any use of any function FD give you in which the user takes it 'as is' would equally be an "exploit".

On further research, it's not an EXPLOIT, in the words of FD. It is however against the spirit of the game? Make of that what you will..

I mean honestly. Did FD design mode switching? No? then it's an exploit.... There really are some people in this world..

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)#cite_note-DOG_03.2C_474-1"][1][/URL]}Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)#cite_note-Consalvo_07.2C_113-2"][2][/URL] I made it big so you can find it.}

Thank you!

If the definition of an exploit meets the practice, it's an exploit. No matter what FD says. Unless FD comes out and reveals they designed mode switching so people can refresh the BB. Which means they designed a feature to be against the spirit of the game. Which is poppychicken.

 

[Bigglesof206]

This. Anyone arguing for this nonsense as not an exploit doesn't understand the game is meant to be played for years and if that's not your plan then you made a mistake in purchasing the game.

This is an exploit. Anyone doing it should be wiped or perm banned. Instead fdev will just fix it so mode switching doesn't have the desired effect in changing missions and allow the cheaters to find their next exploit. And make no mistake, fdev has addressed this as an exploit in live streams

Another humorous reply, well done.

YOU think it's an exploit, so you think people should have their accounts wiped.

Jeez, get over yourself. FD have said this is NOT an exploit, and whilst they are not happy with it, I am not happy with the need to do it to complete rank progression before the heat detah of the Universe, nor am I totally onside about the fact that many missions are bugged (just like the pre 2.1 missions were riddled with bugs too).

What's really funny is I quit Powerplay 'cos FD made a complete cods of it, and swapped to mission running for rank as an alternate goal only to find the missions still don't run right - I suppose if I give this up and go mining I'll find the roids are all made out of biowaste.

Here's a serious question for everyone spitting feathers over this supposed 'exploit' - in what way, shape, or form does somebody mode switching like this cause you any problems with your own game, or detract from your enjoyment of it in any way?

You don't like me doing it, come find me....I fly in the mode I collect the missions in, so I'm in open plenty.

Dave

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

o1. Entering a RES and instead of fully flying out manually and flying back in to reset the RES instance if you are not getting decent ship spawns, people mode switch to save time flying back in/out and refresh the instance. How is this going around the tme needed normally like the normal mission board time any different? Is this an exploit as well?

Yep.

[2. Landing on planet to scavenge for mats and not getting any or any good rock types spawning - people mode switch to save the time of taking off and landing again. Again, the benefit is to go around the built in time needed similar to built in time for mission refresh. Is this an exploit?

Sure is.

3. There was the most bizarre thread when I last actively played where a player posted he happily logged in and out while at station - he would take off from dock inside the station, but then immediately log out. He called this "trade logging" because at that time, no idea if changed now, it would spawn you way outside the station past the mass lock zone and would shave some time off his leaving station routine with his slow trade ship.

Exploit!

But, mind you, exploits aren't cheating. The definition says: "Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating", now I would very much like to see the argument for that, because I disagree. It;'s taking advantage of the game's mechanics within the game rules. So, bottom line is that you're not doing anything "wrong".

when clearly FD has shown they will define and punish things like combat logging but has said nothing about switching modes to spawn new mats or rez zones.

Combat logging is breaking the game's rule: when in combat, you need to wait 15 seconds to log off. So that's where it differs from mode switching.

 

[Strangepork]

With some bugs you win, and with some bugs you loose...

 

[fennster]

Thank you!

If the definition of an exploit meets the practice, it's an exploit. No matter what FD says. Unless FD comes out and reveals they designed mode switching so people can refresh the BB. Which means they designed a feature to be against the spirit of the game. Which is poppychicken.

The paradox is strong with this one.

 

[thorn-]

FD have said this is NOT an exploit

FD says a lot of things... such 'mission stacking at Robigo with mode switching' wasn't an exploit. Yet, that whole thing was removed with 2.1.

So... believe what you wish about whatever FD really thought.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The paradox is strong with this one.

If there's an issue with my post, point it out.

 

[fennster]

If there's an issue with my post, point it out.

None at all. Me trying to be funny, obviously failing miserably.

For the record I thought your post was spot on. The paradox was Frontier.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

None at all. Me trying to be funny, obviously failing miserably.

For the record I thought your post was spot on. The paradox was Frontier.

Ah .... second time in a short while my argumentative self got the better of me.

Sorry about that.

 

[Flavourless]

Combat logging is not an exploit, it is a cheat. But different users have different definitions of combat logging (or more significantly combat)
Mode switching to refresh a BB or reset an instance and the old station logging are both exploits because they give the user an advantage by using the software in a way that it was not designed for.

Each user knows whether he has exploited or not, and has to live with that knowledge. But some don't care apparently.

 

[Bigglesof206]

FD says a lot of things... such 'mission stacking at Robigo with mode switching' wasn't an exploit. Yet, that whole thing was removed with 2.1.
So... believe what you wish about whatever FD really thought.

Ah, an opposition viewpoint that isn't delivered in the form of a bad 'Charlton Heston comes down the mountain with a couple of bits of stone' manner, a breath of fresh air, my compliments, you aren't going into the 'petty dictator' box with the rest

I'd accept the 'we'd rather you didn't do this' approach if the missions were actually bug free and had some rhyme or reason to the way they are handed out - the way the mission systm actually works is down to FD, and if they choose to have one or two stations that spawn a dozen missions at a pop all going to the same place, while the rest of the space stations generate missions that head off in 5 different directions, all involving a 50 ly journey, then I don't think FD really have a leg to stand on.... players are making the best job they can of a fairly cruddy system.

I never did Robigo, I've earned my half billion the hard way....doing all sorts....but whilst FD may well have cleaned the mess up, they made it in the first place.

Earlier on another poster pointed out there are plenty of other occasions that are equally wrong, if mode swithcing for missions is wrong, such as popping in/out of a res to get the spawn going the way you want - why is everyone crying burn thw witch overe missions, when there are a good few other similar things in the game that nobody seems at all bothered about.

It makes me laugh a bit to find I am an exploiter, speeding through missions in pursuit of my Cutter, doing it the easy way - I've got over 1800 play hours in this game, I'm a 'Dangerous Entrepreneur Pathfinder' sort of guy, with a reasonable fleet of ships all of which I've done all sorts of things to earn since I started playing - NOTHING about how I play this game is what any sane person would refer to as taking short cuts.


Dave

 

[Darth Ender]

Earlier on another poster pointed out there are plenty of other occasions that are equally wrong, if mode swithcing for missions is wrong, such as popping in/out of a res to get the spawn going the way you want - why is everyone crying burn thw witch overe missions, when there are a good few other similar things in the game that nobody seems at all bothered about.

Dave

People do care about the other things. The use of switching modes to make the game easier has been a hot button issue since day 1. Switching it rapidly to gain practically infinite wealth like some users were doing is new and affects the playerbase as an important problem. If you have a subset of players with infinite money then nothing the game does that deals with credit barriers matters to them and that's a problem for everyone. The other instances of it's abuse are much less influential, so FDev took the approach of which action would give them less of a headache from this forum. We all know how loudly a certain subset of the playerbase will get when you talk about their mode-switching ability rights.

 

[fennster]

Combat logging is not an exploit, it is a cheat. But different users have different definitions of combat logging (or more significantly combat)
Mode switching to refresh a BB or reset an instance and the old station logging are both exploits because they give the user an advantage by using the software in a way that it was not designed for.

Each user knows whether he has exploited or not, and has to live with that knowledge. But some don't care apparently.

Combat logging is not an exploit...

I am in a situation unfavourable to me, so by bypassing (exploiting) the game's mechanics I can gain the upperhand.

It is both cheating and an exploit, black and white.

 

[cmdr_Havalok]

FD says a lot of things... such 'mission stacking at Robigo with mode switching' wasn't an exploit. Yet, that whole thing was removed with 2.1.

So... believe what you wish about whatever FD really thought.

FDEV didn't remove anything from Robigo. The station was UA bombed.