The Star Citizen Thread v5

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So finally the SC defense line is back in order with their fairy tales agenda...So how the JPEG SC ship sales going these days on the grey market?I recon they could hit the new bottom low after this free fly weekend?
 
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Fantastic please explain it to IceGrypon, he's gone cross eyed.

So you agree that Derek has decades of experience in making massive space games that end up having a very narrow appeal in what is already a niche market, and is therefore quite knowledgeable in the field. Never having worked on a AAA game is another point in his favour as SC clearly isn't AAA.

No, I acknowledge that he has no room to comment about how long a game takes to make and the success/failure of said game. I acknowledge that he has experience in game development but doesn't have the skill to create something that is ambitious as what CIG is trying to create. I acknowledge that while he can comment about how CIG develops their game, but that his comments should hold no weight simply because none of his games have obtained critically acclaimed status and many of them are mocked.

So I guess that was a long winded response that essentially says that his opinion shouldn't matter when discussing Star Citizen and CIG.

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So finally the SC defense line is back in order with their fairy tales agenda...So how the JPEG SC ship sales going these days on the grey market?I recon they could hit the new bottom low after this free fly weekend?

Meh, only the Sabre, Mustang beta and the F7-C Hornet. Nothing to get really excited about ;)
 
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Better that than dragging roadkill into the kitchen and pre-selling it as sirloin to more customers than your restaurant can seat.

Not only is it roadkills, it's one week old roadkill's, and the vine that comes with it are just water with flavour.
 
What with Squadron 42 *definitely* coming out "late" 2016 (said nobody credible since late last year) and it being the obvious and complete COD "killer" which will be the definition of next generation, PC game saving, FPS action awesomeness in SPACE... I thought it'd be nice to see what those folks at Infinity Ward are up to. I mean, they must be quaking in their boots at the immersive story telling skills that Chris Roberts' painstakingly written (re-written, triple re-written, scrapped, re-written again) magnum opus of space opera theatre will be unleashing to gamers come the end of 2016... 2017.... Maybe 2018?

https://www.facebook.com/InfinityWard/videos/10154141551787489/

Yep. Quaking in them boots are Infinity Ward.

Totally Terrified.

Fear unbound!

(Oh... Right... I think that actually... that might be what the folks at CIG are thinking... If they can take their minds of "Streetroller/Steamroller-gate" that is.)
 
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Didn't know Squadron 42 was suppose to be a COD killer (well probably wouldn't take much since COD games are completely convoluted and one dimensional).
 
So with it being *cough*ahem*cough* ...free to try temporarily, I gave it a shot. I'm not impressed. /shrug



What exactly left you with the "I'm not impressed" feeling, might I ask?

Because, according to a couple of the posters here who have recently piped up trying to divert attention away from CIG's current refunding crisis, that view of yours is surely baffling.

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Didn't know Squadron 42 was suppose to be a COD killer (well probably wouldn't take much since COD games are completely convoluted and one dimensional).



First and last time I'll reply to you.

The "COD killer" quote was one made by several of the higher ups in CIG command, including Chris Roberts himself.

You can take it up with him why he wanted to make that comparison.

*Edit* Just as a quick addition. I've never been a fan of the Call Of Duty games. Not even remotely. I'm just interested to see how CIG, having claimed they will out-FPS the game that helped push the genre into the 2000's and has been probably the biggest selling series of games of all time (outside of some monster hit JRPGs and Super Mario), will attempt to compete with a title that literally stole their games' thunder at E3 this year? (Ya know, that insignificant, totally irrelevant, tiny little computer game trade show thingie that CIG, for some really obvious reason, decided to not attend at the last minute)

And not only that, they have to at least *match* the usually polished graphical look and feel of that title.

AND match whatever quality of storyline/script that Infinity Ward have thrown at this game.
 
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So finally the SC defense line is back in order with their fairy tales agenda..

I'd expect nothing less from them. Having expressed their un ending commitment to the eternal pipeline, that is SC; through the signing of billion year contracts with C *Sniff* Robbard, it is their noble duty to crush on all forums the supressive forces of: FUDelity, and the hate filled activities of the Anti Chris (Darook Schmuck) and his many minions (which now include Yahoo and a number of prominent gaming websites)
 
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This is shamelessly lifted from SA, but I think it is very relevant when it comes to discussing why the "scope" of Star Citizen has seemingly (seemingly!) ballooned out of control since 2013...

(Long copy and paste post)

Posted by the SA forum user: RubberJohnny (Stop that giggling at the back, Timothy!)

I made a list of all the feature creep since the original pitch arguing with the cultists over at NeoGAF:

Basically all the stretch goals, added concept ships and all the Wave 3 ships that have entire careers and types of gameplay associated with them:

Squadron42

  • 5 extra missions for Squadron 42 - $3 million tier
  • 10 Extra missions for Squadron 42 - $4 million tier
  • 5 more missions for Squadron 42 - $6 million tier
  • Professional motion capture for the Squadron 42 cutscenes - $5 million
  • Celebrity voice actors for SQ42 - $6 million tier
  • Squadron 42 will feature a full orchestral score - $6 million
  • The first Squadron 42 mission disk, Behind Enemy Lines - $8 million
  • Cloud Imperium Games will build their own mocap studio - $10 million
  • Build professional sound studios - $14 million
  • Facial Capture System - $22 million
  • Enhanced Mission Design for Squadron 42 - $30 million

LOL at planning on building a AAA action game with celebrity actors for only $6 million

Star Citizen

  • The Persistent Universe with 30 star systems
  • $3.1M: Odin System
  • $3.2M: Tyrol System
  • $3.3M: Kellog System
  • $3.4M: Goss System
  • $3.5M: Orion System
  • $3.6M: Ellis System
  • $3.7M: Cathcart System
  • $3.8M: Tal System
  • $3.9M: Geddon System
  • $4.0M: Chronos System
  • 10 More Star Systems - $4.5 million tier
  • 20 More Star Systems - $5 million tier
  • 30 More Star Systems, for a total of 100 - $6 million tier
  • Extra Landing Zone on Earth
  • Exclusive star system for pre-launch backers.

The game called "Star Citizen" was actually a stretch goal to Squadron 42. Basically building a massive MMO without expanding the budget at all. And then it expanded to three times its size over the course of the campaign.

Ships

  • Anvil Gladiator - $2.5 million tier
  • MISC Starfarer - $3.5 million tier
  • Cockpit decorations - $3.75 million tier
  • Class I Repair Bot - $4 million tier
  • Idris class corvette - $4.5 million tier
  • Origin M50 - $4.5 million tier
  • Drake Interplanetary Caterpillar - $4.5 million tier
  • Bengal Carrier - $5.5 million
  • Xian Scout - $23 million
  • Drake Herald - $35 million
  • MISC Hull A - $34 Million
  • MISC Hull B - $34 Million
  • MISC Hull C - $34 Million
  • MISC Hull D - $34 Million
  • MISC Hull E - $34 Million
  • Anvil Carrack - $35 million
  • Aegis Surveyor - $32 million
  • RSI Orion - $31 million
  • Origin 890 JUMP - $30 million
  • New Starter Ship - $29 million
  • Banu Merchantman - $27 million
  • Gladius - $42 million
  • MISC Endeavor-class Research Platform - $57 million
  • Anvil Aerospace Crucible - $59 million
  • Aegis Vanguard-class Twin-Engine Deep Space Fighter - $60 million
  • Esperia Prowler - $61 million
  • Genesis-class Starliner - $62 million
  • MISC Reliant - $63 million
  • Merlin
  • Sabre
  • Dragonfly
  • Vanduul Scythe
  • Vanduul Blade
  • Vanduul Void Bomber
  • Additional Ship Class: Destroyers. - $4.5 million tier
  • Additional Ship Class, the frigate.
  • Additional ship class, the battlecruiser.
  • Additional ship class, the escort.

This doesn't even include the new ones like the small mining ship, or the four variants each of them has because frack that I'll be here all day.

Careers and Gameplay

  • Salvage Career
  • Refuelling Gameplay
  • Info runner Career
  • Science System
  • Space Farming Gameplay
  • Drink Mixing Gameplay
  • Entertainment Console Repairs
  • Overclocker Career
  • Ship Racing Career
  • Sataball Game and Career
  • Space Lawyer

I think I'm missing some of the ship-specific careers. Each of these is supposed to be so fleshed out and deep that you could play only them never get bored, or something. They promise stuff like "Galaxy changing endgames".

Features

  • Vanduul trading posts - $4.5 million tier
  • hidden smuggler asteroids - $4.5 million tier
  • Extended hardcore flight sim controller support: Flight Chairs, multiple monitors, Track-IR, MFD (Multi Function Displays) and more on launch.
  • Additional alien race, the Kr’Thak. - $5 million
  • Professional mod tools will be provided free to all players - $5 million tier
  • Drake Interplanetary Cutlass - $5 million tier
  • Alien Derelict base type - $5 million tier
  • Melee combat - $5 million tier
  • heavy weapons - $5 million tier
  • suit HUD options - $5 million tier
  • Tablet companion application - $5 million tier
  • Command and Control Center - command a fleet $6 million tier
  • Ability to control your ship from your bed
  • Public Transportation System
  • Procedural Generation R&D Team
  • Hibernation Mode
  • Updated Observist Guide
  • 3D holographic map room
  • Feature-length “Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen” documentary film.
  • Manage Space Stations
  • First person combat on select lawless planets... take the fight to the ground!
  • Alien Languages
  • Web-based Known Universe Map
  • Pets - $64 million

There's probably a whole bunch more stuff they've said yes to in Ten for the Chairman, I think the only thing he ever said no to for 10 questions in 100 episodes was space farming cows and cutting them up, so that's another 999 right there. He was even saying yes to crazy stuff like finding an unknown alien race and teaching them a new language and cultural concepts.

Look at all those stretch goals.

Look at them all.

And CIG want to put that into Star Citizen?

In the next year?!?!
 
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Pontificate all you want about this game, it's not going to stop be from calling out and irrationality.
 
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What exactly left you with the "I'm not impressed" feeling, might I ask?

Because, according to a couple of the posters here who have recently piped up trying to divert attention away from CIG's current refunding crisis, that view of yours is surely baffling.

I've alpha tested for several games, some that have succeeded and others that've failed. From the moment I got in, there's not even a hint of identity of what they want their game to be. Obviously it is trying to be a mishmash of multiple genres, but so far it feels like it'll be another Second Life. I'll try to play it more over the weekend to draw out some specifics.
 
Doesn't matter, backers aren't investors so they have no right to look at financials. You can surmise, pontificate or pantomime until your blue in the face about it; however, until crowdfunding becomes synonymous with investing or CPA protects against it, you have no point.

Except that RSI promised to "post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost" if the game wasn't released within 12 months of their estimated 2014 delivery. Sorry, 18 months. Sorry, entirely at their discretion*.

The problem isn't that "games take time", it's that what they have to show for the time they've spent so far demonstrates a worrying degree of underachievement. It may take 5-6 years to develop a typical MMO, but show me one that was as fundamentally broken and basic as SC after 4 years, and then was released as a complete, functioning, fun game 2 years later.

Of course, S42 will be released in the next 5 months according to Roberts. I'm looking forward to seeing what secret build they have up their sleeve, or at least how the game magically starts working and being fun when netcode(tm) isn't an issue. What I expect, on the other hand, is a) one or more delays, and b) a series of awful, Hideo Kojima-style cutscenes demonstrating Roberts' legendary writing and directing prowess in between some very simplistic "shoot the pirates!" missions. And c) bugs. Lots of bugs. Or "features", as Major Tom might describe them.

The thing is, no one has forced Roberts and co to make the promises they've made and subsequently broken. There's no point getting indignant about people who dare to call him on his failures when he set himself up to fail in the first place.

* I'm not clear on why backers who only ever agreed to the original TOS aren't now entitled to that information
 
I've alpha tested for several games, some that have succeeded and others that've failed. From the moment I got in, there's not even a hint of identity of what they want their game to be. Obviously it is trying to be a mishmash of multiple genres, but so far it feels like it'll be another Second Life. I'll try to play it more over the weekend to draw out some specifics.



Wow... What a... terrible first impression to leave for someone new to the game, which is proposed to be be this amazing, intergalactic space adventure MMO/FPS/sandbox/everything to everyman type of game.

Please, do keep us informed of your further investigations of the Star Citizen PU. I'm sure it'll be interesting to see what else you can find.
 
http://i.imgur.com/TcIPFuw.jpg

This is my "crowdfunding" from 2013. I didn't kickstart but it did grant me Alpha and Beta access. The additional purchase was a ship upgrade. You'll note the words "Order placed" there and that being an "order" page, not a donation page.

All of the stuff they said they would do, they have failed on - including delivery times that were in the original ToS which when they decided to change the ToS should have had a whole thing way before the change to the ToS, that notified of the upcoming change in ToS and to allow previous "special snowflakes" (as we are called) that were under the old ToS to not accept the new ToS and receive a refund on their orders - not "donations."

That is just another example of their terrible gross mismanagement and dishonesty as they tried to slip one by users with the new ToS to try out their new and completely groundbreaking/amazing/etc mini-PeeYew.

I see this still stands as it completely and absolutely removes any "crowdfunding" or "donation" or any of the "but the monies you put in wasn't for an absolute return" as it is very clearly an order for an actual product.

So "pontificate" and "irrationality" away but the evidence is overwhelming - SC was a sold product that was to be delivered and is not a donation or a faith based pledge or etc - there is an absolute product that needs to be delivered, not to mention the various other physical pieces that were promised to the original kickstarters that still have yet to materialize and guess what there as well? CR/CIG/RSI absolutely are held to delivering those products as it has been proven in the past by other failed kickstarters that took money but did not deliver on their promises. The little physical plastic model ship that some were entitled to due to their pledge level, the kickstarter succeeded and therefore CR/RSI/CIG are absolutely responsible for delivering that little piece of plastic. Instead, g polos and crap that cost more money.

It is absolutely ridiculous that anyone exists to excuse what they are doing. They aren't delivering on 2 to 3 year old items, they aren't meeting any deadlines but instead pushing them back, they are changing ToS to ensure they do not have to meet any form of deadline without prior notification which is absolutely not going to hold up in any way, and they have most likely squandered the majority of funds they have acquired as evidenced by their silly free trial periods in attempts to get more customers to put more money into something that was fully funded years ago.

Here's the reality - I am not a funder, I am not an investor, I am not a kickstarter, I am not a donor, I am absolute customer since I placed an order.
 
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Except that RSI promised to "post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost" if the game wasn't released within 12 months of their estimated 2014 delivery. Sorry, 18 months. Sorry, entirely at their discretion*.

Seems to me that because of their ToS change, they don't have to do what was stated in the previous version. You may not agree with that but that's perfectly legal and beating a dead horse about that won't change the outcome until someone takes them to court and a judge finds them guilty. So complaining about that ad nauseam, serves very little purpose.

FYI, I have already consigned the money that I have given CIG to the ether. So I know that I'm not going to get that money back because I don't want that money back. I want CIG to make the game they want to make. Cannot spell it out more than that.

Of course, S42 will be released in the next 5 months according to Roberts. I'm looking forward to seeing what secret build they have up their sleeve, or at least how the game magically starts working and being fun when netcode(tm) isn't an issue. What I expect, on the other hand, is a) one or more delays, and b) a series of awful, Hideo Kojima-style cutscenes demonstrating Roberts' legendary writing and directing prowess in between some very simplistic "shoot the pirates!" missions. And c) bugs. Lots of bugs. Or "features", as Major Tom might describe them.

The thing is, no one has forced Roberts and co to make the promises they've made and subsequently broken. There's no point getting indignant about people who dare to call him on his failures when he set himself up to fail in the first place.

Man I didn't know that SQ42 had multiplayer in it; I thought they nixed co-op, must be from the "informants" that Derek Smart has in CIG :p Seriously, you have no access to their builds so you don't know the state of SQ42 and how close they are to a release candidate ;)

I don't remember them breaking any promises. LTI is a non-issue and if it was up to me I would give every pre-release backer LTI and stop that whole fiasco. Any release dates were/are estimates so really the only one that they could really bit them in the but is the SQ42 release. So to me they haven't broken anything yet and are still on track to completing this game.

Also I'm not indignant about people who call him and his company out on things; I'm indignant about the opinion and supposition that goes on when people call them out on stuff. Educate, rationalize and think critically on the stuff you hear and speak the truth. That is all I ask of people (I know a tall order for the internetz)

* I'm not clear on why backers who only ever agreed to the original TOS aren't now entitled to that information

It's actually very simple, they changed the ToS. This change supersedes the previous ToS; if you disagree with the new ToS, you break the contract. Since you break the contract, you aren't entitled to a refund because the recompense clause is only activated if CIG runs out of money and stops developing. As for a financial audit, same logic applies. Savy ;)
 
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So "pontificate" and "irrationality" away but the evidence is overwhelming - SC was a sold product that was to be delivered and is not a donation or a faith based pledge or etc - there is an absolute product that needs to be delivered, not to mention the various other physical pieces that were promised to the original kickstarters that still have yet to materialize and guess what there as well? CR/CIG/RSI absolutely are held to delivering those products as it has been proven in the past by other failed kickstarters that took money but did not deliver on their promises. The little physical plastic model ship that some were entitled to due to their pledge level, the kickstarter succeeded and therefore CR/RSI/CIG are absolutely responsible for delivering that little piece of plastic. Instead, g polos and crap that cost more money.

Wow, you're really stretching there if you are complaining about the physical stuff that you will get once it releases. At least the person you quoted was trying to formulate a valid and concise argument.

It is absolutely ridiculous that anyone exists to excuse what they are doing. They aren't delivering on 2 to 3 year old items, they aren't meeting any deadlines but instead pushing them back, they are changing ToS to ensure they do not have to meet any form of deadline without prior notification which is absolutely not going to hold up in any way, and they have most likely squandered the majority of funds they have acquired as evidenced by their silly free trial periods in attempts to get more customers to put more money into something that was fully funded years ago.

Here's the reality - I am not a funder, I am not an investor, I am not a kickstarter, I am not a donor, I am absolute customer since I placed an order.

Considering they don't need those ships that were put up for sale 2-3 years ago for SQ42 kind of makes your point moot. So which one do you want, do you want SQ42, your precious internet space ships that will come later or your silly merchandise...please pick one because there is only so much time/resources and your complaining gets old real fast.

See that's the thing most backers don't care about moving dates so long as development continues. As for the ToS; grow a pair, gather up all the other people disenfranchised with this company and start a class action lawsuit; I'm pretty sure that Derek Smart would pay for any legal fees. BTW, isn't the statute of limitations coming up for his supposed legal suit?
 
Wow, you're really stretching there if you are complaining about the physical stuff that you will get once it releases. At least the person you quoted was trying to formulate a valid and concise argument.

It wasn't physical stuff "once it gets released" it was promised 2 years ago to be delivered by then. I am glad the person I quoted had a valid and concise argument, considering it was me - myself. Thank you!



Considering they don't need those ships that were put up for sale 2-3 years ago for SQ42 kind of makes your point moot. So which one do you want, do you want SQ42, your precious internet space ships that will come later or your silly merchandise...please pick one because there is only so much time/resources and your complaining gets old real fast.

See that's the thing most backers don't care about moving dates so long as development continues. As for the ToS; grow a pair, gather up all the other people disenfranchised with this company and start a class action lawsuit; I'm pretty sure that Derek Smart would pay for any legal fees. BTW, isn't the statute of limitations coming up for his supposed legal suit?

First, I haven't the faintest clue as to how you are stating ships put up for sale 2-3 years ago make my point moot. That doesn't even start to encroach on any of my point.

Squawking42 was not the point of all of this - it was such a small aspect to get players into Star Citizen. As a matter of fact - I don't want Squawking42 since it was supposed to be a small aspect of Star Citizen - it was to be played and then you would be a "Citizen" without any other hurdles to cross in this immaculate vision. Star Citizen was the game, Squawking42 was a small part of it. The "intro" if you will. I don't even have to elaborate on that as it is in every early video from CR himself that says it.

And as I've said before, I don't get any physical merchandise or any other minutia from the brain trust that is CR/RSI/CIG - I only get the digital crap they have so far that isn't even worth the bits and bytes being transferred across the internet.

I am now calling you on the fact that you said you were neutral in all this but as I type this out and was going to search it I see that you are banned so never mind. I won't waste any more time.
 
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...and the thing about SC is that it is getting to the point where nothing it is doing is new or even worth mentioning. E : D has a visible damage model, sure the ships are more solid not havin wings or odd extremities - which absolutely makes the most sense in space unless it is a satellite or data collecting machine that requires long arms to distance the various sensors from interference from the power source and other sensors - so they make sense as space fairing vessels in E : D. They may not be fancy jpegariots like the ridiculous ships in SC - so far the Aurora is the only one that makes a lick of sense that I've seen - but they are absolutely space faring vessels and especially space combat vessels in E : D. Many of them have lifting body characteristics which is a very aerodynamic form for atmospheric re-entry and atmospheric flight in a glide pattern. Sure, they won't work in aerodynamic maneuvering like real aircraft but then neither will the terrible designs from SC because they have zero airfoil profiles so arguing that is just silly that they "have wings" when they are improperly positioned, do not have airfoils and are absolutely useless in terms of atmospheric flight.

The same things people complain about in E : D, which tend to come form those that require a guiding mission or ultimate end game or story-line structure to play through otherwise they will be lost are very much exactly the same thing in SC. So the whole "E : D is so wide by very shallow" will absolutely apply to SC since SC is following the same pattern, and note how I say follow because nothing they have presented is innovative, new, ground breaking, or not already done by E : D.

The only thing SC could have is the "legs" crap which they can't even get working properly. So you get to walk around, walk into ships, steal ships, etc, IN YOUR UNDERWEAR BECAUSE WHERE WE ARE GOING WE DON'T NEED SPACE SUITS OR EVEN OXYGEN IN THE VACUUM OF SPACE!, so what really is the point of this? I am still lost as to how walking around and PRESS USE really makes this anything other than E : D but way, way, way behind and completely not innovative at all.

There truly is nothing playable, or even demonstrable, that is even worth paying for SC in its current form or even what is supposed to be coming down the pipe.

Procedural planets? So E : D or NMS which is out in 3 weeks. Procedural planets will require placement of these highly detailed space ports that can be walked around, so guess what - the fact that only 2 space ports exist right now after 2 years and procedural planets aren't coming for a while, and all of the highly detailed space ports to walk around require manual creation, implementation, placement, etc, means... what? It isn't happening any time soon at all. Any time soon meaning years not anything less.

I could keep going but it is pointless, the kool-aid addicts will continue sipping and reality will continue passing SC by.
 
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