Elite Babysitter...

To be fair though, it's only a filled or hollow triangle. ;) And I apologise if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth, I was merely trying to summarise what I felt your objections were based on.

In this case though, I think you're in serious danger of labouring the point. FD heard you fine. They also heard me. They'll also have their own preference in house.

Let's just see what they come up with. They may surprise us both. ;)

NOW, I don't disagree, I (and others) have made my point. I do think this thread is winding down... Not a bad discussion for 3 days...
 
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In regard to NPCs (AI), it must surely be nothing more than an internally mental 'in-character' trick to think of them as android commanders owned by some corporation.

Slightly off-topic, but the in-universe explanation is that we belong to the Pilot's Federation and the NPCs are like non-union commanders. That's because in the 34th century artificial intelligence is seen as an existential threat to mankind, like they realised all our sci-fi books were probably right, and decided to stomp on any robot with half a brain faster than you can say "how about a nice game of chess".

By the way, have I mentioned humanity has only got 0.1% of the way out into the galaxy?
 
NPCs are humans too. They are AIs in computer game terms, but... this isn't a game. :D

From a lore perspective, I would like to know why players are in the Pilot's Federation and NPCs aren't, but I guess I'll have to wait for the books for that. :)
 
NPCs are humans too. They are AIs in computer game terms, but... this isn't a game. :D

From a lore perspective, I would like to know why players are in the Pilot's Federation and NPCs aren't, but I guess I'll have to wait for the books for that. :)

So we ARE special! Couldn't resist...
 
By the way, have I mentioned humanity has only got 0.1% of the way out into the galaxy?

ED humanity or real humanity? If you're talking real humanity I'd be extremely suprised to learn our efforts amount to as much as 0.1%. If the universe is compared to a point starting with me to one ending at our sun I'd say our efforts thus far amount to me having a nano-meter of my fingertip up my nose. :D
 
What is amusing is after this argument is said and done, Jeff Ryan the pilot is gonna be a prime target for pvpers who want to kill him and non-pvpers who're mad at me. Transponder on or off, there are a lot of people who'll know that guy...
 
What is amusing is after this argument is said and done, Jeff Ryan the pilot is gonna be a prime target for pvpers who want to kill him and non-pvpers who're mad at me. Transponder on or off, there are a lot of people who'll know that guy...

You overestimate your significance & importance... ;) :p
 
What is amusing is after this argument is said and done, Jeff Ryan the pilot is gonna be a prime target for pvpers who want to kill him and non-pvpers who're mad at me. Transponder on or off, there are a lot of people who'll know that guy...

Flying along spacelane...

Oh, there's a ship...

Hmmm, Jeff Ryan, Jeff Ryan...

Where do I know that name from?

Just another NPC, probably not important...

Continue flying along spacelane...
 
Let me first start off with stating that I'm an EVE player and an avid defender of EVE's sandbox/player driven content and interaction, so I'm obviously biased. But then, who isn't.

To me an MMO is about interaction with other players, if there's no meaningful interaction then you might as well player single player (See Skyrim vs. ESO, ESO is a half ***** attempt where the player interaction is messed up and as such it's terrible at being an MMO, making Skyrim the better game). Meaningful interaction can happen in various ways but regardless of it being positive/building or negative/destroying, it's all interaction and it all adds to the immersive universe.

While ED is never going to be on the same level of player interaction as EVE, it should have it... and lots of it because if there's no player created content (in whatever form) then you're stuck with grind content because that's really the only other option. That's why normal MMO's need a content patch giving you more levels, gear and whatnot. It's a GRIND and personally I'm actually rather offended by it because it means that the devs simply assume I'm easily entertained and am incapable of seeing through the terribleness.

In order to have meaningful player interaction the game needs to allow for people to excel and to fail, this creates goals (defined by the player himself) and hurdles (defined by the other players) and thus perpetually creates content. If there's none (or not enough) then all you're left with is mining or doing trade runs like an autistic grind bot.

So, as I see it, there should be as little rules, regulations and limitations as possible (apart from the EULA etc) because it allows for content, meaningful player interaction, contest and continued reasons to keep playing.

On top of all that; we're in SPACE, it's uncontrolled anarchy, and if you want to survive and do well you better be prepared to battle (in whatever way) other people trying to do the same. We're not all individual snowflakes destined for greatness, it's an emergent potpourri of players all trying to survive. That's what I'm looking for in a space game.
 
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As far as I know all of us backers have supplied FD with a name of an NPC character in this game. So I shouldn't be surprised to see myself doing the Lave - Reorte supply run over and over again.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator

I don't think that it is Frontier's aim to recreate EvE (except with cockpits).

The scale of the galaxy ensures that if PvP were dominant then, with even a huge player population, the game would need to be restricted to a tiny portion of the galaxy if players were to have any chance of finding each other.

Frontier have also been very clear that in-game behaviour has consequences in accordance with rules.
 
Sorry Soraellion, as an EVE player myself I know where you are coming from, but ED has nothing EVE has... it's not even an MMO in the sense of the word... so any comparison, no matter on what level, is totally moot. There is no player generated content in ED other then market manipulation, and that one is very light...
 
I don't think that it is Frontier's aim to recreate EvE (except with cockpits).

The scale of the galaxy ensures that if PvP were dominant then, with even a huge player population, the game would need to be restricted to a tiny portion of the galaxy if players were to have any chance of finding each other.

Frontier have also been very clear that in-game behaviour has consequences in accordance with rules.

No, obviously not, I stated as such. But it SHOULD have lots of interaction. The more people can opt out (in whatever way) of player interaction, the less of an MMO it becomes and the less point is there to keep playing. If there's no real hurdle to take then what's the worth of achieving anything at all?



Sorry Soraellion, as an EVE player myself I know where you are coming from, but ED has nothing EVE has... it's not even an MMO in the sense of the word... so any comparison, no matter on what level, is totally moot. There is no player generated content in ED other then market manipulation, and that one is very light...

Not really no, but that doesn't mean I should stay quiet about it and let the carebears win :)
 
A maximum of 32 players in one instance at any given time is no MMO, nor will it ever be one, no matter what systems for player interaction are in place...

...carebears... at least you have a sense of humor. ;)
 
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While ED is never going to be on the same level of player interaction as EVE, it should have it... and lots of it because if there's no player created content (in whatever form) then you're stuck with grind content because that's really the only other option. That's why normal MMO's need a content patch giving you more levels, gear and whatnot. It's a GRIND and personally I'm actually rather offended by it because it means that the devs simply assume I'm easily entertained and am incapable of seeing through the terribleness.

Disregarding whether you consider E: D to be an MMO in the traditional sense or not, why do you assume that all generated content must by definition be a grind? In EVE it is, absolutely it is, and also in most MMOs which is why I find these types of games terminally boring and dull.

E: D won't have player generated content in quite the same way as EVE (because it's not an out-and-out MMO), but it will still exist. I think the difference between E: D and EVE here is that you can actually interact with the environment, unlike in EVE where environments are simply static sets. Emergent player-drive gameplay will arise from that aspect, in ways I can't even imagine right now.

There is also injected & emergent events through the background simulation, which I think will be really interesting & not grindy at all... but more about player snowflakes affecting corners of the galaxy in a significant way.

I agree 100% though that a good sandbox should have as few rules as possible.
 
+1

Im hoping for a Elite reborn with pvp, with social interaction (both good and bad), revenge, backstabbing, spying, awesome friendships, helpfullness, year long vandettas, monopolies (if you can put the time in or make a trade syndicate with others)

If people can just bail out - the game will slowly die out.

We have soloplay allready comming - why do we need a mp-version where we can only smile and wave at eachother?

Not necessarily. PvE market is hugely bigger than the PvP market. Just look at the success of games like Diablo, Torchlight and Borderlands. I think the very best thing is allowing people to play as they want. The non-restricted all group will grow as the game itself grows. If it turns out to be what is the most fun for the majority, people will come there. If it's the most fun for a minority, that minority will still benefit from the hundreds of thousands of players who join the game. The more there are, the bigger the subset playing in the all-group gets as well. Trying to force people there will just hurt the broader appeal.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
No, obviously not, I stated as such. But it SHOULD have lots of interaction. The more people can opt out (in whatever way) of player interaction, the less of an MMO it becomes and the less point is there to keep playing. If there's no real hurdle to take then what's the worth of achieving anything at all?

You would rather that players who would otherwise opt out of player interaction were either:

a) forced to play PvP when the don't want to
b) stop playing because they are no longer permitted to "play the game how you want to"

Not really no, but that doesn't mean I should stay quiet about it and let the carebears win :)

Your prejudices are showing a little....
 
What is amusing is after this argument is said and done, Jeff Ryan the pilot is gonna be a prime target for pvpers who want to kill him and non-pvpers who're mad at me.

I don't think so, but believe it if you want. To me you're just another pilot in a huge universe - some are smart; some dumb; some significant; some not so.

I have enjoyed the discussion though I do believe, again, it's not going to make that big of a deal. We will know better once more of the features are in the game - you never know : I might agree with you ! (Right now, to me, on paper the proposal is solid and fair but in practice I agree it could be pants)
 
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