The Star Citizen Thread
- Thread starter Ril
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It isn't making anything better or worse. The same as your 'important messages'. We shouldn't delude ourselves.
Fairly well put, I share the sentiment.
RSI set themselves up with a hard job - I think they underestimated many things, from backer expectations to the technical roadmap they were forcing upon themselves by offering so many "ideas" as stretch goals.
When you go on Kickstarter asking for money, and it starts flowing in beyond your wildest dreams, it's difficult to keep your feet on the ground.
There are no shortage of great ideas in game development, but a lot of them - usually the coolest - never make into the game, because they're just so time consuming, and you have so many other things to do. And you can't solve it by throwing more people at the problem, because (this should be a well known fact by now), more bodies makes things worse, not better.
The post-kickstarter success has only made things worse. Not content with taking what they already have, they had to set up the most expensive looking website they could (suffers the same problem of excess - it's difficult to navigate), fill it with even more ways people can invest in the game (up to $15,000 !? and there are people complaining about Premium Beta prices!), provide all the episodic stories, and stage round-table "update" discussions with the developers. Honestly, I really felt for the artists - they have that haunted "leave me alone, I'm busy" air about them.
I don't know Chris Roberts, I've never met him or worked with anyone who has, but his public approach to problems - assuring everyone that the team will give daily updates, for example - is another alarm bell, a management approach which is hard to escape because it was set up as a promise "to our backers" right at the beginning (complete transparency). Is there anyone here working in games, that relishes having to make daily reports - not just to the boss, but joe public as well? It gets in the way.
Making games is hard. Thinking you can do it (with a middleware you didn't write, no less) and keep everyone informed every step of the way, while meeting deadlines for things that you haven't really considered, is dangerous.
I look forward to playing Star Citizen, and I've not got any interest in knocking it - I'm purely observing here - but, as an artist myself, I feel for the guys that are having to actually make this stuff. They're not the ones that made all the promises, but they sure as heck are the ones who're taking the beating and long hours over it.
I guess I should leave a cynical note after all: 300,000 triangles per player ship. What!?
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I hope their senior management get the message about a string of issues including the importance of issuing realistic deadlines, if only for the sake of their own guys doing the work. But if they finally do I promise you it will be no thanks to Star Citizen apologists, it will be in spite of them.
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They aren't having the same response to missed deadlines as you would because these deadlines are not the same types of deadlines as what you're expecting. Internal deadlines are a LOT looser than public release date deadlines for betas and official releases.
All they're doing is making their internal deadlines public. That's it. Yes it's technically a 'release', but it's really just a more-stable-than-usual version of an internal build. Crowd funding and and a transparent development process does not all of a sudden give them the ability to tighten up internal deadlines at this stage of development.
There wouldn't generally be anyone on the internet discussing progress. There wouldn't be a vocal minority at this stage, nor would there be a content majority. The fact that there is doesn't magically change how development works.
Heh, I just noticed this after I'd already written my post above.
It is very cool, unless you're the one under the microscope
Consider the psychology - boss tells you that you're going on video (on record!), and you're going to tell everyone what you do. Not just a couple dozen people, but tens of thousands. Meanwhile you're panicking because you're behind, you have too much to do, and those same people you're sharing with are the ones who will hang you up to dry (via the boss, if not personally) if you slip any further.
I love "making of" things - they're usually my favourite part of a DVD/Blu-Ray (even a rubbish movie can be saved by good Bonus Extras), but I'd really hate to be in the middle of it when things aren't going quite as planned...!
Careful Bains, I'd rather that you didn't shut down this thread for another day. I can almost feel the hate
Acknowledged. I didn't really think I was giving out the 'Wrath of Khan' vibe, but I'm sure you meant well with the heads up. It's high time I went and fed the fish anyway.
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At this point I don't believe the reasons for the delay. I'm willing to bet that they haven't actually made much progress since PAX and are still teaching their interns C++. Anyone deal with friends that owe them money and the excuses they make as to why they can't pay it back?
In any case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH_rUwxOpbs
On a more serious note, can't say I'm surprised but I'm still disappointed. I really want to see how this flight model feels.
I hope none of the people here calling out SC for missing a deadline were defending E: D when it missed every ETA except Alpha
At least RSI tell you that there's a delay and the reasons behind it instead of expecting backers to decipher cryptic clues in newsletters about delays and not actually saying why ETAs weren't met other than suddenly deciding that things take as long as they take and ETAs be damned.
FD aren't whiter than white in their development/communication either so if you can cut them some slack you can cut RSI some too.
At least RSI tell you that there's a delay and the reasons behind it instead of expecting backers to decipher cryptic clues in newsletters about delays and not actually saying why ETAs weren't met other than suddenly deciding that things take as long as they take and ETAs be damned.
FD aren't whiter than white in their development/communication either so if you can cut them some slack you can cut RSI some too.
Well looking at the footage of Rob playing in yesterday's Wingman's Hangar it looked like it had come on a bit. Didn't like the bright thick white ring around the enemy target - but it certainly looked a bit better generally - maybe just because they weren't POV hoping like they usually show.
I think it's quite ironic where in that episode of WMH, Rob is testing the DFM and saying how rock solid it's looking, then to have these sudden bugs appear out of nowhere.
To be fair, I believe when they announced today as the date for the DFM alpha they also listed the steps they would be going through up till today, which included mentions that part of the process was checking for issues which may delay the schedule, and hence the release date.
Also, someone collected the info from the RSI chat roll to show that they believe that they have squished most of the bugs on the list posted this morning :
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/26rp39/travis_days_chat_updates_on_dfm_bug_list/
(scroll down the post 'TL;DR Version')
However, the main bug that stood out to me to probably require the most amount of effort to resolve (network sync) is still showing as unfixed.
Personally I am not too fussed about the delay (whether it be days or a few weeks), as it just convinced me to upgrade my ED pledge to Premium Beta, so I will be perfectly happy getting blown up in this Universe instead
Also, someone collected the info from the RSI chat roll to show that they believe that they have squished most of the bugs on the list posted this morning :
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/26rp39/travis_days_chat_updates_on_dfm_bug_list/
(scroll down the post 'TL;DR Version')
However, the main bug that stood out to me to probably require the most amount of effort to resolve (network sync) is still showing as unfixed.
Personally I am not too fussed about the delay (whether it be days or a few weeks), as it just convinced me to upgrade my ED pledge to Premium Beta, so I will be perfectly happy getting blown up in this Universe instead
OMG
Take a look at what's happening over at the RSI forum.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/general-chat
It's changing so fast as they stamp on all the threads and new threads appear but here's a screenshot from a few seconds ago.
http://i.imgur.com/D9JJplX.jpg
That's the end of the honeymoon period I guess.
Take a look at what's happening over at the RSI forum.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/general-chat
It's changing so fast as they stamp on all the threads and new threads appear but here's a screenshot from a few seconds ago.
http://i.imgur.com/D9JJplX.jpg
That's the end of the honeymoon period I guess.
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Par for the course when you have lots of grumpies. I imagine the more rational posters are steering well clear of it until it calms down.
They'll cheer up and forget all about it when they're shooting lasers at one another. But that's t'internet for you.
Funny, I remember it being full of backers chanting "I trust Chris Roberts".
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Veni vidi lolled
What is their fascination with calamari? I'm as disappointed as the next SC backer that there is still no tangible output to test, but some of the reaction is hysterical.
Hopefully they'll get the bugs sorted out quickly. However, as I have always maintained, it's clear there has been more time spent on "fluff" than core code, and that's kind of sad.
What is their fascination with calamari? I'm as disappointed as the next SC backer that there is still no tangible output to test, but some of the reaction is hysterical.
Hopefully they'll get the bugs sorted out quickly. However, as I have always maintained, it's clear there has been more time spent on "fluff" than core code, and that's kind of sad.
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