Please further nerf thermal cascade
- Thread starter Protein Carrot
- Start date
I'm not sure I agree with this. Yes, shields are massively more powerful now, but so are our weapons. Insane resistance also makes SCBs more powerful again, but that's what we have feedback cascade railguns for. Heat is simply redundant and does not add anything to the game save for forcing us to cram as many heatsinks into our ships as possible and hope our opponents run out before we do.
For two reasons:
- Because some people did not know (or wanted to learn) how to fight a silent runner. Newbies and low combat skilled players. The same who whined to tone down the AI...
- Because it was overpowered if used on top of the mighty FAoff + reverse at full speed (which is illogically equal to the top speed of your ship, even though you should be slowly reversing!)
The real problem was the FAoff+reverse...and it is still a problem. There is not much you can do when your opponent knows how to use that.
I used SR a lot in 2.0 and never ever FAoff+reverse. Nobody has ever complained about my way to fight (even when I crushed them). I also had plenty of fun against other SRunners who fought face to face, like me.
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Yeah, it's pretty funny. The truth is, it would have been insanely OP as it was originally implemented. They changed one small thing (inhibit SCBs to 10% recharge instead of instantly killing shields) and the were instantly balanced. Something similar has to happen to thermal shock/cascade. Instead of just tweaking the rate they dump heat, they need to be fundamentally altered.
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That could work actually. I like it.
NO. Missiles (modified or not) are now nicely ballanced against NPCs and finally (after more than one year) they are usable at all.
If some PvPers have problem with it, solution is simple. Ban the PvP completely and the stupid "this or that is OP or unballanced" rant will be finally over. There is Arena for PvP and it is not necessary to do any changes in the normal game, which was not and is not really designed for PvP at all.
I have never said this before, but hey... You are definitely the master of carebears - and I mean this in the most negative way you can imagine.
Your suggestion is not a solution, it's an insult to everyone who thinks predictable NPC are not worth the bragging.
Don't have anything constructive to say? Don't say anything at all.
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Yeah totes. You sound like an incredibly well-informed individual who clearly understands the issue better than everyone else. Your incredibly articulate and well written comment totally just changed my mind. Never mind FD, heat doesn't need any changes. Nothing to see here; move along.
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Well, personally I am sure that my post was probably one of the most constructive articles in this totally useless PvP ranting thread.
And please, do not tell me what I should or should not say. OK ?
Not another one of these threads. What is wrong with game being rock paper scissors? It adds variety and means you have to be tactical about your load outs and not have a single one size fits all.
Read up on this. It's not rock paper scissors. It's just heat wins. Against everything. Always.
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Well, personally I am sure that my post was probably one of the most constructive articles in this totally useless PvP ranting thread.
And please, do not tell me what I should or should not say. OK ?
Your opinion is noted and disregarded just as you choose to disregard everyone elses. PVP is part of the game that needs to be balanced like the rest of it. Your comment was petty, insulting, and wholly devoid of merit.
Missiles should be an effective weapon and they can be but with Thermal cascade on them they are ridiculous. The problem being that when folks create a missile boat they can do silly damage with little effort. But if you maintain your position here then I say lets revert the AI/NPC nerf and give the NPCs back their engineer mods, as of initial 2.1 release.
I suspect the only reason you think its balanced is because Frontier caved into the crying, you'd likely think differently if the AI was using the full arsenal of engineer mods against you... When it comes to PvE, with a fully modded grade five combat ship killing even Elite NPCs is trivial.
And as for Arena.. Its a completely different game and hardly anyone plays it.
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Okay, here's my honest thoughts about heat weapons. I do use them and they are pretty damn effective but for me they aren't over powered at all now (previously they were...cascade especially) but I've put some points below.
The heat itself is easily managed with the right build. 2 or 3 heat sinks can give you a good platform to lay down a withering attack as most people will have sacrificed outright shield strength and alpha damage for the heat as they themselves understand how effective it is and will have fitted their own countermeasures.
They other thing to take into account is your own ship build when coming you think you're going to come up against a heat build. Having overcharged this and that affects the integrity of your modules as does having lightweight mounts etc. This means they are more vulnerable to thermal attacks because they have less "health".
Another aspect, again with builds is what mods you have on your thrusters and power plant. Dirty Drives and Overcharged Power Plants have a steep increase in thermal load and while it might not appear much just plodding around in open space, any kind of external heat causes your temperature to sky rocket. This again, makes you more vulnerable to heat based weapons.
The final thing I have noticed is that people panic when their temperature rockets past 100%. The trick here though is to take notice, the moment you hear "Warning: Thermal Attack, gaining heat" you need to pop a heat sink right away. If you leave it, you're probably going to need to continue popping them just to stabilise it but if you've timed it right you'll be able to get a handle of it. Remember, when gaining excessive heat, sinks are the first to go so need to focus on controlling it as early as possible while still trying to give you opponent something to think about.
If you're in a small or medium ship, you need to keep moving. Small ships naturally have poorer heat management than large ships with the exceptions being the Diamondback duo. Your speed and maneuverability is your friend. Most people won't have bother fitting shock or cascade to turrets as the heat build up is scaled with the damage.
Heat was nerfed heavily in the last patch. I tested on my buddy pretty patch and had him up to 210 in his cutter. Now it's capping around 160-170 which with a healthy helping of heat sinks is fine to manage. If you aren't able to do that, then that's your problem. I rock 2 ECMs and 3 heatsinks along with 3 shield boosters and I manage just fine.
Something for you folks to consider as well, is that cascade is more powerful than shock for 2 reasons: heat imparted is based on total alpha damage and the second...it only works on shields.
The heat itself is easily managed with the right build. 2 or 3 heat sinks can give you a good platform to lay down a withering attack as most people will have sacrificed outright shield strength and alpha damage for the heat as they themselves understand how effective it is and will have fitted their own countermeasures.
They other thing to take into account is your own ship build when coming you think you're going to come up against a heat build. Having overcharged this and that affects the integrity of your modules as does having lightweight mounts etc. This means they are more vulnerable to thermal attacks because they have less "health".
Another aspect, again with builds is what mods you have on your thrusters and power plant. Dirty Drives and Overcharged Power Plants have a steep increase in thermal load and while it might not appear much just plodding around in open space, any kind of external heat causes your temperature to sky rocket. This again, makes you more vulnerable to heat based weapons.
The final thing I have noticed is that people panic when their temperature rockets past 100%. The trick here though is to take notice, the moment you hear "Warning: Thermal Attack, gaining heat" you need to pop a heat sink right away. If you leave it, you're probably going to need to continue popping them just to stabilise it but if you've timed it right you'll be able to get a handle of it. Remember, when gaining excessive heat, sinks are the first to go so need to focus on controlling it as early as possible while still trying to give you opponent something to think about.
If you're in a small or medium ship, you need to keep moving. Small ships naturally have poorer heat management than large ships with the exceptions being the Diamondback duo. Your speed and maneuverability is your friend. Most people won't have bother fitting shock or cascade to turrets as the heat build up is scaled with the damage.
Heat was nerfed heavily in the last patch. I tested on my buddy pretty patch and had him up to 210 in his cutter. Now it's capping around 160-170 which with a healthy helping of heat sinks is fine to manage. If you aren't able to do that, then that's your problem. I rock 2 ECMs and 3 heatsinks along with 3 shield boosters and I manage just fine.
Something for you folks to consider as well, is that cascade is more powerful than shock for 2 reasons: heat imparted is based on total alpha damage and the second...it only works on shields.
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Missiles should be an effective weapon and they can be but with Thermal cascade on them they are ridiculous. The problem being that when folks create a missile boat they can do silly damage with little effort. But if you maintain your position here then I say lets revert the AI/NPC nerf and give the NPCs back their engineer mods, as of initial 2.1 release.
I suspect the only reason you think its balanced is because Frontier caved into the crying, you'd likely think differently if the AI was using the full arsenal of engineer mods against you... When it comes to PvE, with a fully modded grade five combat ship killing even Elite NPCs is trivial.
And as for Arena.. Its a completely different game and hardly anyone plays it.
Dude... probably best to just block that guy. He's clearly a troll who isn't interested in hearing anyone else's opinion except his own.
Another alternative is to significantly raise the reload time/reduce how many seeker missiles can be fired at a time.
Dumbfire missiles could have a quicker reload/and fire rate but the distance you can fire at a target needs to be increased so you can't just spam them close up. I think this would ultimately raise the skill required to use them and make for more interesting combat experiences.
Dumbfire missiles could have a quicker reload/and fire rate but the distance you can fire at a target needs to be increased so you can't just spam them close up. I think this would ultimately raise the skill required to use them and make for more interesting combat experiences.
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Your can't just arbitrarily restrict things. Heat was OP prior to the patch but it is much much more manageable now.
I don't think that would be enough. There would still be a magic number of them that would overwhelm anything, which is the core issue.
Its not arbitary.. A lot of missiles in the real world aren't fired at close blank range because of splash (of which there is none in ED). I think what I've proposed would up the skill requirement, resolve the spam - without nerfing thermal cascade on missiles, and create for more interesting combat scenarios.