Please further nerf thermal cascade

[BreakfastMelon]

...

I've noticed a few of your comments. I'll be succinct.

• ECM is very powerful, but can not be used often enough or effective enough in reasonable numbers.
• Point defence is kinda powerful but the utility slots can be made better use of.
• Screening shell frags were my favourite approach as they're an extremely effective weapon, but nonetheless, are not effective enough.
• No number of heat sinks do not provide adequate cooling, vs. competent pilots with builds designed to dump heat into their target due to how quickly it spikes and the cascade-failure effect of lower integrity modules.
• Keeping range is simply not effective. In a fight with even a massive skill discrepancy, it's an incredibly difficult thing to consistently achieve.

All of the above need to be taken into account for wing-fights as well. We'd often have fights with 30+ CMDRs in an instance in previous patches, but now, even 4 on either side can leave ships being completely overwhelmed in seconds. Hell, even two competently flown ships built to dump the maximum amount of heat into their target will force them from the fight in moments.

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There will always be those presuming the XBox players are a little behind in terms of meta-game, etc. The fact is, the majority of the XB1 community is, and I'm not entirely sure as to why. We've spoken to quite a few of their notable pilots, or at leas the ones deemed notable enough by their piers to post videos and such of their builds, piloting, and general gameplay.
As for the input method - the controller can be a very nice, intuitive one, but the sticks don't have the throw and the controller itself doesn't have the inputs to be quite as effective as a HOTAS/dual sticks/KM+M. A player can become very good with it, but it is, objectively speaking, a slight limitation.

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I understand that you have no reason to take my word as gospel. All I'll say is that I know the game rather well and that I'm not exactly a bad pilot.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

I've noticed a few of your comments. I'll be succinct.

• ECM is very powerful, but can not be used often enough or effective enough in reasonable numbers.
• Point defence is kinda powerful but the utility slots can be made better use of.
• Screening shell frags were my favourite approach as they're an extremely effective weapon, but nonetheless, are not effective enough.
• No number of heat sinks do not provide adequate cooling, vs. competent pilots with builds designed to dump heat into their target due to how quickly it spikes and the cascade-failure effect of lower integrity modules.
• Keeping range is simply not effective. In a fight with even a massive skill discrepancy, it's an incredibly difficult thing to consistently achieve.

All of the above need to be taken into account for wing-fights as well. We'd often have fights with 30+ CMDRs in an instance in previous patches, but now, even 4 on either side can leave ships being completely overwhelmed in seconds. Hell, even two competently flown ships built to dump the maximum amount of heat into their target will force them from the fight in moments.

__________________________________

There will always be those presuming the XBox players are a little behind in terms of meta-game, etc. The fact is, the majority of the XB1 community is, and I'm not entirely sure as to why. We've spoken to quite a few of their notable pilots, or at leas the ones deemed notable enough by their piers to post videos and such of their builds, piloting, and general gameplay.
As for the input method - the controller can be a very nice, intuitive one, but the sticks don't have the throw and the controller itself doesn't have the inputs to be quite as effective as a HOTAS/dual sticks/KM+M. A player can become very good with it, but it is, objectively speaking, a slight limitation.

__________________________________

I understand that you have no reason to take my word as gospel. All I'll say is that I know the game rather well and that I'm not exactly a bad pilot.

Diplomatic as ever, Mr. Melon. Though I sometimes you think you mislead people into believing that their opinions aren't entirely​ off base.

 

[digitalscream]

AHAHAHAHA! It's funny 'cuz enginneers used fish in beta...

At last! Someone noticed

 

[fantasmic]

I understand that you have no reason to take my word as gospel. All I'll say is that I know the game rather well and that I'm not exactly a bad pilot.

Pbbbt.

 

[InlineSix]

In fact, it takes more skill to overcome the pitfalls of the controller.

One of the best FA off pilots in here is doing his thing with a controller. Which pitfalls? Fine motor skills?

You've just rendered your whole argument completely null and void in my opinion since you firmly believe that us xbox players are inferior and not entitled to an opinion.

Sure that it's not an inferiority complex shining through? I don't read that in his posts.

 

[Geezer32]

IMO these changes haven't broken PvP, rather the game is broken BECAUSE of PvP.
The sooner everyone wakes up and realizes that this game isn't suited to PvP the better.

 

[foebits]

I just wonder how anyone at Frontier who tested all of this thought its okay.. My only conclusion is that it wasn't ever tested. I'll be happy to concede on this point if the devs come on here and explain themselves. Its possible, although highly unlikely, we are missing something.

[wacko]

They didn't test them.

 

[foebits]

Some times you can't. But that's a different topic of missiles themselves. Damage control is the key here, using your own ships speed and maneuverability to try and avoid target lock.

Also, there is a third option.

Screening shell frag turrets.

FA off. And that alone destroys this simple minded notion of "just don't let them see you" foolery.

 

[fantasmic]

IMO these changes haven't broken PvP, rather the game is broken BECAUSE of PvP.
The sooner everyone wakes up and realizes that this game isn't suited to PvP the better.

You have your solo mode so how about you don't s&#t all over our thing and leave us to it.

 

[Nerwan]

IMO these changes haven't broken PvP, rather the game is broken BECAUSE of PvP.
The sooner everyone wakes up and realizes that this game isn't suited to PvP the better.

"You!! Yes you at the back! Stop enjoying PVP, that's not what this game is for!!! How dare you enjoy something in an unsanctioned way! Now get out there and explore like a good lad"

 

[digitalscream]

IMO these changes haven't broken PvP, rather the game is broken BECAUSE of PvP.
The sooner everyone wakes up and realizes that this game isn't suited to PvP the better.

...except for the fact that a significant portion of the player base have been enjoying consensual PvP all the way up to the release of 2.1. The bits that were broken - combat logging etc - usually only occurred when yanking non-PvP folk into a fight. Some of the highlights of ED only occurred because of PvP (Hutton CG is a great example).

It worked well enough (it's never going to be perfect) until these changes. Now it doesn't work at all.

Ergo, these changes broke PvP.

Basically, the facts don't support your position, no matter how often or how emphatically you say it.

 

[InlineSix]

Folks, there can't really be a discussion about a weapon mod that kills a 300 million python in 15 seconds except it has at least 2 ECM generators with it... by using an ASP Explorer.

Thermal cascade must be nerfed. No way around it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

...except for the fact that a significant portion of the player base have been enjoying consensual PvP all the way up to the release of 2.1. The bits that were broken - combat logging etc - usually only occurred when yanking non-PvP folk into a fight. Some of the highlights of ED only occurred because of PvP (Hutton CG is a great example).

It worked well enough (it's never going to be perfect) until these changes. Now it doesn't work at all.

Ergo, these changes broke PvP.

Basically, the facts don't support your position, no matter how often or how emphatically you say it.

If PvP were broken, nobody would do it. You are complaining loads of people are doing PvP with 'overpowered' gear. Regardless of whether it is OP or not, the fact that many people are doing it means its not broken. You just dont like it as much as you did before.

Again: not taking a stance on this, in fact I'm slowly leaning towards the impression a few things are off with both HC and missiles in general.

 

[digitalscream]

If PvP were broken, nobody would do it. You are complaining loads of people are doing PvP with 'overpowered' gear. Regardless of whether it is OP or not, the fact that many people are doing it means its not broken. You just dont like it as much as you did before.

Again: not taking a stance on this, in fact I'm slowly leaning towards the impression a few things are off with both HC and missiles in general.

Many people have stopped doing it. Largely-speaking, the only ones still doing PvP (apart from testing the mechanics) are the gankers. I have at least 20 people on my friends list who were all PvPers, and they've all stopped; in fact, I rarely see them playing the game at all. Even Cillit Bang's left the bubble to do some exploring because it's not fun any more.

 

[thorn-]

Many people have stopped doing it.

Yep. Along with everything else in the game.

 

[nathdixon92]

Folks, there can't really be a discussion about a weapon mod that kills a 300 million python in 15 seconds except it has at least 2 ECM generators with it... by using an ASP Explorer.

Thermal cascade must be nerfed. No way around it.

Except it doesn't, it took me a good 4 minutes to take down disable a Vettes weapons and force him to run. (Pre-patch it was taking much less)

Might also be worthwhile having FDev buff Thermal Vent

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

If PvP were broken, nobody would do it. You are complaining loads of people are doing PvP with 'overpowered' gear. Regardless of whether it is OP or not, the fact that many people are doing it means its not broken. You just dont like it as much as you did before.

Again: not taking a stance on this, in fact I'm slowly leaning towards the impression a few things are off with both HC and missiles in general.

Lots of people have basically quit pvp (and the game as a whole) until Frontier fixes these ridiculous weapons, myself included, because there is literally no point. There is no skill involved whatsoever. It's purely a game of who has more ships, who has more heat-cancer, and who runs out of heatsinks first.

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Except it doesn't, it took me a good 4 minutes to take down disable a Vettes weapons and force him to run. (Pre-patch it was taking much less)

Might also be worthwhile having FDev buff Thermal Vent

We've already established that you don't know what you're talking about and all of the tactics you've espoused for countering heat-cancer don't work.

 

[nathdixon92]

Lots of people have basically quit pvp (and the game as a whole) until Frontier fixes these ridiculous weapons, myself included, because there is literally no point. There is no skill involved whatsoever. It's purely a game of who has more ships, who has more heat-cancer, and who runs out of heatsinks first.

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We've already established that you don't know what you're talking about and all of the tactics you've espoused for countering heat-cancer don't work.

What a peen.

I find it hilarious that people have quit the game over the weapons.

 

[foebits]

If PvP were broken, nobody would do it. You are complaining loads of people are doing PvP with 'overpowered' gear. Regardless of whether it is OP or not, the fact that many people are doing it means its not broken. You just dont like it as much as you did before.

Again: not taking a stance on this, in fact I'm slowly leaning towards the impression a few things are off with both HC and missiles in general.

That is about as faulty as logic gets. Just because people are doing it does not mean that it isn't broken. If you want proof just look at wings and instancing.

 

[digitalscream]

What a peen.

I find it hilarious that people have quit the game over the weapons.

When the most (or only) fun people get out of a game is via PvP, and PvP is made very much un-fun by a broken mechanic, why should they continue to play parts of the game they don't enjoy? Can you explain that to me?

Or would you like me to explain the core concept behind the word "game"?