The Star Citizen Thread v5

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^^ this kind of mentality is why there really hasn't been any significant innovations in gaming the last 10+ years

You are basically tied to the lowest common denominator if running anything in real time.

Easiest way of sorting this out is to have as few states that need trasfer as possible. This is pretty straight forward with RTS type games, even FPS if you're clever. The more changes that you have to pass to the server, well, do the maths. It's why games like Battlefield, even with a relatively straight forward set of variables (direction faced, posed, load out, time that weapon was fired, bullet path/velocity, etc, etc) doesn't run more than 64 players - IIRC - in a map, and even then it took 2 years post-release for Dice to get a good tick rate. And Dice are an established studio who have done games like that before.

It's possible that a new company can come up with something revolutionary, for sure, NMS has that possibility - approaching universe generation in a new way with their proc gen allowing for a small team to make a lot of content. The jury is still out, obviously. ANd then you have Rockstar who have polished the behemoth that is GTA to a mirror-like shine. CIG, though, firstly are a new company without a track record of using or building their tools, but also nothing that they are doing is that revolutionary. All of their gameplay components have been done before. Their scope is huge, maybe, but what is actually new? Space fight? Done. PU? Done. Trading? Done. I dunno... what I've seen of SC is a bit like GTA in space, but GTA already exists.
 
Reverse the 'Verse: Episode 2.02
TLDR
  • The show today was in the U.K with guests Nathan Diersley, Vehicle Art Director and Gordon Mclean, Gameplay Programmer at Foundry 42 U.K.
  • The video in ATV showing off the Catastrophic damage was ingame and not pre-rendered.
    • The Idris was crashed on a planet and the damage was handcrafted, but the lightning techniques they used allow them to reuse effects and such to replicate it in different ways easily to create variation.
    • It’s possible for the damage to be procedural as that’s what they’re working towards, but they’d have to be clever at how they do it because spawning debris right infront of you would be pretty jarring to a player and immersion breaking. They’re investigating that with the Tali right now.
    • CryEngine on a rendering aspect gives CIG a lot to work with in terms of flexibility and fidelity, it allows them to do so much and build upon it. The lightning and effects you see in the ATV video are examples of that.
  • The cover system won’t be available in Zero G when it comes out apart from some aspects like preventing the weapon from clipping when close to walls. Gordon said they’d look into maybe having the peek feature available, but for now it’ll be gravity only for the cover system.
  • Star Marine is on track for 2.6 at this time,
    • It was close to being done a year ago at the time, but was pushed back. However it’s now in a state now they’re pretty happy with it.
  • Shooting from ladders isn’t going to happen and having multiple people on a ladder is something that’s being looked at for later on.
  • Using the cover system while in Prone isn’t in the game right now. Prone needs another pass before it can work with that, but you can roll currently.
  • Player’s health state wont affect how you use the cover system in the initial release, but down the road they’ll implement something.
  • Next week’s ATV and RTV will be Austin.
And Star Citizen: Interview with Chris Roberts

P.D.-DarkTheme friendly ;)


btw

Thank you :D

Well that is true, but it's a 100% different thing, EVE is not a live combat game, it's more like a turn base strategic game.

Even more so with time dilation (the tool they use in order to hit those numbers). Although I can't remember how many I have seen in Jita (2k I think, but that is with out combat, and most people just docked in the station)
 
I'm in a similar situation at work only I elected to use a hybrid. The infrastructure we need to handle our 20,000 average users is all managed dedicated servers for the database cluster, front end web servers, and mail servers. However we use Azure to host our media servers & chat servers. Thus far it is working nicely. We also leverage Azure to handle our mobile & desktop notification systems (push notifications).

We're early in the process, our operational IT has been outsourced (4+ weeks to not do my last new DNS request), our parent company wants 2000+ servers dumped on a cloud infrastructure that doesn't yet exist by yesterday and... well, I'll stop now!

On prem, cloud and hybrid services do all have their places, for sure, but anyone who says that "the cloud" will fix everything is an idiot.
 
Neither a 'mesh of servers' nor fluffy 'cloud' woo will alter the fact that internet bandwidth won't support thousands of players in the same place. Not if you expect them to be visible to each other, and capable of meaningful interaction in real time. Can't be done.

Well there is a possibility to cramp a lot of players in theory......If multicrew ships "count" same as "single" ship to the one server and all this players in one multicrew ship are actually on other separated server you can trick the actual number of players per instance but in this case all this ppl. in the multicrew ships can´t impact that much the "game" or you will have network overload....so honestly I expecting many stupid click-point mini-games on the big multicrew ships with some minimum data transfering there except when you have the boarding on the ship but that´s agian new instance ......Anyway don´t get me wrong I do agree with your post above mostly I am just saying that like this there is a possibility for bigger player numbers in theory...well maybe not 1000...
 
^^ this kind of mentality is why there really hasn't been any significant innovations in gaming the last 10+ years

Some napkin maths:


  • If we look at WoW (LINK) then on a client during a 25 man raid or a 40 man PvP battle they estimate the BW at 1500b/s per player. Scale that up to 1000 players for SC and you're looking at 1.43Mb/s - easily OK for the average player. (Assuming you can fit 1 players' worth of data into 1500b/s of course)


  • For the server BW requirements - The game won't use multicast (as basically the internet doesn't support it) so each client will need to be sent an identical copy of data. That's 1.4Gb/s which is easily attainable in today's world.

The numbers taken from the WoW site should be noted that Blizzard use a very optimised data stream. SC would have to do similar.

It's all possible though - Planetside has done a 1000 player battle on their servers :)


EDIT:
No. The reason there haven't been significant innovations in multiplayer gaming in the last 10 years is that the infrastructure doesn't support the bandwidth required

The average internet connection globally is now currently 6Mb/s.

That's more than enough IMO for the clients.

Server side would require a 10Mb link which are fairly common.
 
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Even more so with time dilation (the tool they use in order to hit those numbers). Although I can't remember how many I have seen in Jita (2k I think, but that is with out combat, and most people just docked in the station)

I don't agree with Lysander's comment that Eve is not a live combat game... it very much is.
When numbers go up though you do get Time Dilation like 1500 mentions... and then it becomes a lot slower.
I've been in a battle with 4k+ in system... it was very painfully slow and took more than a day to even out.

I'm sure Chris Roberts will solve everything though... I mean he probably has a lot more experience in massive multiplayer games than CCP's 10+ years of running EvE.
 
Some napkin maths:


  • If we look at WoW (LINK) then on a client during a 25 man raid or a 40 man PvP battle they estimate the BW at 1500b/s per player. Scale that up to 1000 players for SC and you're looking at 1.43Mb/s - easily OK for the average player. (Assuming you can fit 1 players' worth of data into 1500b/s of course)
[...]
Server side would require a 10Mb link which are fairly common.

10Mb link to transmit 1.43Mb/sx1000, ok
 
Been privileged to work with Cloud solutions both on the delivery and usage side for some years now. One issue that is difficult to control from the delivery side because you do not own it is the link from the client to the Cloud server. No matter how good your cloud solution is, if the clients internet is not good enough you will have problems and those problems grow the faster you need to push the data back and forth between the server and client. I am interested to see how CIG's 1000 user solution will cover this.
 
How in the hell do you loose credibility by being uncritical? I really don't think that you thought this argument through. Just because someone doesn't voice their criticisms doesn't mean they don't have them nor does it mean that their credibility is lost. Perhaps they aren't as concerned as you are about those criticisms. Perhaps they acknowledge them but are waiting for the FINISHED PRODUCT before rendering their judgement.

Good old fashioned citizen sophistry. To be fair committed backers best refrain from uttering even the slightest hint of doubt for fear of wounding a passing space pixie.
 
Ok then explain how they are going to accomplish that 1000 player promise they did.

Its not the claims that are the problem.
Its the fact that they cant explain how they are going to do it.
And the fact that their CEO is talking crazy stuff.
Think about how you would take it if call of duty suddenly promised 1000 player cap on its official servers.
Or why elite dangerous isnt using these 1000 player magic german servers?

Mesh of server's willl enable it all if that doesnt happen theres always the CLOUD

The funny thing about this, ED uses a P2P system.So its mostly dependant on the useres internet connection. If humanity doesnt kill itself off it will get better in time, because faster internet/better coverage for high speed internet. Who knows maybe at some point we will not encoutner any huge latency problems.

If at all, ED P2P is the definition of a "hardware solution" but until then, people will rightfully complain about it and its current problems.

But it already allowed for more people than the official stated limit of 32 people in a instance. With the Distant Worlds expedition and their final jump.

[video=youtube;8R4JbYmKb4U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R4JbYmKb4U[/video]
 
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