2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Cmdr Mnumen]

Also, if I can pay to insta-transport my ship from one place to another - why can't I pay to insta-transport a commodity I want from one place to another.

\begin{sarcasm}I mean... travelling a few hundred light year round trip to pick up some commodities just so I can buy my engineer upgrade is a time sink and where is the fun in that? I've got better stuff to be doing than that....\end{sarcasm}

 

[Ozram]

I hate it when game devs begin catering to the I want it now instagratification crowd. It's catering to the same group of people who will ditch the game soon as a new shiny comes along leaving the rest of us with the mess that an immersive and persistent environment becomes once these "features" are implemented. It's frustrating to see and here's hoping I'm mistaken.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I hate it when game devs begin catering to the I want it now instagratification crowd. It's catering to the same group of people who will didn't have the game soon as a new shiny comes along leaving the rest of us with the mess that an immersive and persistent environment becomes once these "features" are implemented. It's frustrating to see and here's hoping I'm mistaken.

It isn't instant gratification, though. You still have to travel there. A place like Jacques would take me 2 weeks to get to.

 

[Bambi]

I'm not trolling. I'm applying your logic to the argument. I've explained my position. If one thing needs an in game explanation, another should, as well. Otherwise, it comes off as arbitrary. I used an existing game mechanic to explain it in universe.

Calling me names doesn't do anything. It is childish and against the ToS, though

Then the travel time should apply to both. Since we're generalizing that much.

Trolling is childish. Calling a spade a spade is not. You misrepresent the logic egregiously in the way either a stupid person or a malicious person would. And I seem to recall one should not attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained in the other way.

ED and CoD are comparable on respawning because they use a similar paradigm there. However in the travel time, ED is an open world persistent game, whereas Call of Duty is an instant action game. You should compare it with something like CQC, where you are indeed instantly brought from map to map, for the same reason. Again you misrepresent this and I refer you to the previous statement.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I like the x amount of time for y light years approach. What would be reasonable is another thing.

 

[Cmdr Mnumen]

The second argument is that there will be a module storage which will be accessible from all places. So, even if there will be no Engineers around Jaques, you can modify all your modules in bubble, store them, take a Conda, fly to Jaques, buy a brand new FDL and fit your modules from storage to it.

They shouldn't be able to do this either....

And the third argument (just from my personal point of view) is that I really am not concerned about ships of other players. What they are, where they are etc. The NPCs are freely spawning everywhere since the beginning of the game and NPCs are the only ships I am seeing in my Solo game. So transfer or not, it will not change my way of playing.

OK, so it won't for you... but it will for me (and, I suspect, a lot of other people).

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

A lot reasonable arguments have been laid out why it would be good to have a delay on transfer. It`s for FD to decide wether they will listen to us or not.

To be fair there are valid points on both sides of the argument. So whatever FD do they are going to annoy one set of people with this.

 

[lanael]

What's next ? Quick travel ?

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Trolling is childish. Calling a spade a spade is not. You misrepresent the logic egregiously in the way either a stupid person or a malicious person would. And I seem to recall one should not attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained in the other way.

ED and CoD are comparable on respawning because they use a similar paradigm there. However in the travel time, ED is an open world persistent game, whereas Call of Duty is an instant action game. You should compare it with something like CQC, where you are indeed instantly brought from map to map, for the same reason. Again you misrepresent this and I refer you to the previous statement.

No. You're being a hypocrite and not using the same logic consistently. It works one way, but not when applied another way that you simply don't like. You're changing the rules to suit your argument.

Again. Suspension of disbelief. That's my argument. You're going off in a whole different direction.

 

[Shar]

Well if we want to get all realistic, there should be a chance you ship never makes it, destroyed in transit. och.

 

[Varrag]

If you can't even buy that ship there normally how do you just magically construct one out of thin air to mirror one from across the galaxy.

And how does the Jacques deliver you exact copy of your... say, Anaconda when you blow it up after being docked there? His station doesn't sell Condas and he -most likely- doesn't have modules (possibly engineered!) you've fitted on it in the bubble either. Where did it come from?

 

[Bambi]

You're being a hypocrite and not using the same logic consistently. It works one way, but not when applied another way that you simply don't like. You're changing the rules to suit your argument.

That is because you are genuinely unable to comprehend why two different situations are different, and thus require different logic.

 

[Ziljan]

They're the exaxt same thing. A ship instantaneously appearing in a station, exactly like the old one. Why cant that mechanic be used to replicate a ship in another station? In game here. Immersion.

Granted instantaneous ship appearing is immersion breaking in either case, I can avoid one thing I hate (dying) by not dying!! But I can imagine that I was asleep in my escape pod, and my ship was delivered while I was sleeping. Yes no time has passed, but I can avoid that illusion breaking by simply not looking at the clock!!!

However, I cannot avoid travelling around the galaxy. Ergo, once again NO they are not the same thing. They do not impact immersion with the same frequency or degree.

Respawning does not influence the ship I fly.

Respawning doesn't bypass jump range balance on ALL ships.

Respawning doesn't have to break my immersion if I just don't look at the clock.


Now, you can say, "hey just don't look at the clock and imagine that you waited days". Well tell that to my Anaconda Taxi that I am suddenly flying everywhere. I hate the Anaconda. I hate the Asp. But now I would be an idiot to fly anything else to get from A to B. Which means I am going to dislike logging onto Elite because it is coercing me into flying these ships, or forcing me to feel like I am playing the game with 1 hand tied behind my back. AND it is invalidating all that hard work I did getting my FDL jump range up!!!

 

[Ozram]

It isn't instant gratification, though. You still have to travel there. A place like Jacques would take me 2 weeks to get to.

Sure, in a ship fitted for travel. That 12 LY range FDL or fully combat fitted Cutter/Corvette should have to do the hard yards or at the very least, take a "realistic" amount of time to arrive. A huge chunk of the balancing mechanics of the game is being hurled out the window here and it's disappointing in the extreme.

 

[MyHammer]

No. You're being a hypocrite and not using the same logic consistently. It works one way, but not when applied another way that you simply don't like. You're changing the rules to suit your argument.

Again. Suspension of disbelief. That's my argument. You're going off in a whole different direction.

Can you please stick to the topic and not discuss rethorical qualities of fellow cmdrs in open forum?

 

[V'larr]

Ship transfer? Totally. But NOT instantaneous, that's just ridiculous.

"Oh look, I made it out here to Jaques after a monthlong journey - aaaand I just press this magic button here and PRESTO! my 10LY jump range battle-fitted Federal Corvette just magically warped halfway across the galaxy in an instant!"


[down]

 

[Wolfechu]

This thread is the best possible argument for instantaneous transfer.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Droogie, what do you think about 1 minute per 100ly? Fast enough to not be a session-preventing wait, long enough to not be magic. Jaques transfer would take 3.6 hours, but for such distances some planning can be made required.

I hate it

 

[Flimley]

I have tried to write this post so many times but each time my blood boils and I get mad thinking about how much Frontier continuously caters to a specific player group which I personally believe won't stick with the game longer than another year. I can't write it without saying nasty things. So i'll drop all that and stick to the facts.

Instant transfer should never have been presented as an idea. Period
1. Goes against the general game architecture of having to build yourself up from nothing.
2. Yes it is completely immersion breaking as are other things in the game which we accepted as game play balance (do you really want a permadeath?)
-In no way does instant transfer make sense. The rebuilt argument is not correct. If you can't even buy that ship there normally how do you just magically construct one out of thin air to mirror one from across the galaxy.
-Engineer upgrades... how does Joe Blow ship builder in Sol accurately copy the modification that a crazy scientist engineer did with rare materials.... (This ties in with the death screen too.

But forget immersion the problem is gameplay
1. Obsidian Ant has a good video on it but first effect is dumbing down the scale of the galaxy let alone the bubble. As a DWE explorer I laugh my head off at you people that are asking for warp gates for inside the bubble too. Like 100 Lys is even far. I've traveled from alliance space to imperial in an eagle with no money and a C class FSD, get over it. It's space. It's big. It's empty.

2. Instant transfer only benefits aforementioned player group. Everyone else can easily get screwed over. As everything in Elite it runs off of news reports of the fastest way to make money, rank, whatever. Someone says hey come here do this thing and profit. Everyone goes there. Griefers hear about head that way. but instead of having to take their combat outfit the distance now they can effectively get there faster than others by taking a hauler taxi and performing the black magic that is instant transfer. Then the players that would normally benefit say they are traders or whatever bringing in their slower poorly armed ships are now met with a blockade of causal corvettes. <- This is the gameplay balance we are talking about.

I firmly believe the people voting for instant transfer are the only people that would benefit where as the rest of the elite player base will be screwed by it. As such the poll is already showing this at the time of me writing this that there is a 60/40% for delay vs. instant.

Final thoughts: I want ship transfer but with a time delay. It needs to have a REAL cost whether it be time and money or loss of engineer upgrades and money. I prefer time and money. Just money is of no consequence in Elite we've got many multi-billionaires in the game.

If you can't afix a true cost to transfer I don't want transfer at all. Of all the things you decided to sacrifice immersion and game play this is what you picked Fdev?

I agree. And as i just stated in another thread, the new 'method' of travel inside the bubble(s) will be via high jump range Asp Explorer. All our other ships can be fitted with grade 'D' FSD's and summoned.
This will impact the balance of all the games ships. Especially combat builds. Frontier must either implement an exponentially increasing credit cost scale verses distance. Or a sensible time delay. After all, having your ship 'travel' to you is already half the journey requied for you to physicly go amd get it !


Flimley

 

[DutchTiger]

I also think that ship tranfer should take some time based upon the distance on top of the fee to move it around. Maybe also had an option for the fee to be higher the faster you want your ship delivered as well ? like express delivery could be really expensive and almost instant while standard shipping would be cheaper and would take more time.