2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

One phrase - upvoting/downvoting reviews. You don't need own a game for that. It feeds into calculated score.

Cheers man.

No it doesn't. Check your facts. Upvoting and downvoting reviews simply determines where they are shown on the page. The calculated score is ONLY determined by the recommended / not recommended votes by the reviewers themselves.

"Cheers", man.

EDIT : The beta FAQ is out of date, you DO now require ownership of a game to write a review, and refunding automatically invalidates your vote.

 

[Omgzzwtf]

Individual reviews MIGHT be, the aggregate once past the 3-4k mark is *extremely* reliable. It's generally too difficult and costly to game the system because you need to buy too many copies to shift the needle, or you need too many owners to act in a specific direction to cause a shift.

The latter has happened and as I said, is the developers fault.

You're not going to win this one.

EDIT : It's actually more likely that the Developer games the review system (Frontier did just that with some very iffy maneuvers with Horizons)

I've honestly found the majority of Steam reviews to be pretty accurate, honestly. Problem for them is that most of the things they complain about are the same reasons why I love this game, lol

 

[sutex]

Ok... I wont be using the INSTANT POPCORN SHIP TRAVEL, have to much respect for spacetime to forget that MASS exists, in a space sim game !

Given I will fly my ship all the way out to the furthest place , for some instant popcorn.

I would like ED to allow players the ability to board passengers ships, to come back to the bubble.

Then we can pick up our other ships, and fly back .....while munching on INSTANT POPCORN.. of course

 

[Slopey]

Hi All,

Please stay on topic, which discussion of steam reviews is not. Also, do NOT engage in continuing personal handbags.

Play the ball, not the player, and in this topic, the Ball is the insta-transfer feature.

Many thanks,
S.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Sure. Casuals have zero interest in jumping to Jacques at the moment, but I am sure they'll come in droves if they can transfer a second ship once they arrived.

Can we stop the whole "FD is only aiming at kids/casuals/console gamers/griefers/combat players/whatever" and use real arguments?

I disagree with Privata but I guess he have some solid points - some FD decisions are a bit knee jerky regarding casual player base. Granted, some of those decisions get reversed, some improved upon - so they are looking at *current* state, try to mitigate that, but try to keep it that in my mind while improving it.

Issue is hardcore gamers alone can't cover the bill. Also we all started Elite journeys as casuals. I really don't want to be ED to be too much punishing.

For me instant transfer feels a bit of cop out. I can live with that, but I feel it could be much more. Don't know, I hope FD will continue listen to feedback regarding this one. So far people don't seem to request instant transfer that much. Maybe that will make FD reconsider this.

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No it doesn't. Check your facts. Upvoting and downvoting reviews simply determines where they are shown on the page. The calculated score is ONLY determined by the recommended / not recommended votes by the reviewers themselves.

"Cheers", man.

It does, seriously, learn more about how Steam scores are done

 

[warbaby2]

So, in essence, simpler/more accassible game mechanics that are also easier to implement? Sounds like a win/win to me... to everyone besides the folks that wanted a deep and complex space sim.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So, in essence, simpler/more accassible game mechanics that are also easier to implement? Sounds like a win/win to me... to everyone besides the folks that wanted a deep and complex space sim.

To be fair before this design decision no one talked about ship transfer as main feature of "deep and complex space sim".

 

[Ian Skippy]

So, in essence, simpler/more accassible game mechanics that are also easier to implement? Sounds like a win/win to me... to everyone besides the folks that wanted a deep and complex space sim.

Except that 'spend the whole day moving your fleet from System A to System B' is neither deep, challenging nor complex.

 

[Avago Earo]

The only way I can see instant ship transfers not breaking my imersion is to tell myself that teleportation of living matter is not possible but non organic things can be.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

The only way I can see instant ship transfers not breaking my imersion is to tell myself that teleportation of living matter is not possible but non organic things can be.

The inverse Terminator situation!

 

[DaggerSnake]

I really think it's time for a new mode. Call it what you will HARDCORE, SIMULATION, REALISTIC... A non-switchable environment where the silly things don't reside.

 

[lysan]

No, but its a bit more believable when you tone the gloom&doom down a bit. You may really dislike this feature, and consider it breaking immersion or whatever, but there is really no reason to go overboard with the whole "from now on everything will be gamey and MMO etc". It doesnt really add to the feedback either. If we want to influence the devs, we just need to say:

1) What we like about the current idea
2) What we dont like
3) What we suggest instead
4) What the advantages of 'our' ideas are
5) What the disadvantages are (and they are there, so we need to be honest!)
6) Argue why the advantages of our ideas outweigh the disadvantages, while taking into account the different kind of players FD has to cater to.

A blanket "from now on everything will be dumb" isnt helping anything.

I agree with that, again this is not a new discussion, we had it all the way back in the DDF discussion, I linked to it many pages ago.
In that discussion no one at FD mentioned instantaneous, that was a time on it. Now they changed their mind regarding this, and the reason are "for gameplay reasons" I like when that is used because that is so convenient.

What I like
1) Ship transfers is a great way to move your fleet around

What I don't like
2) Instantaneous transfer

What we suggest instead
2) First define the reason, it's not 100% clear, but from from what I understand it's so you can do fighting if you are in a trader and visa versa, was that not why the Guardians was implemented?

A wild spin regarding game play and lore.

1) give all players the option to own a private hangar, equip the hangar with a teleportation device, you can access the hangar at all times via a neural link from the station.
2) make a Graphical visual appearance on the stations so we can see some activity, flash of light and so on.
3) let the device use materials instead of money, material can be purchased in the station for money.

I mean, the current model seem to be just slammed on, not even bother with an explanation, just yeah its magic har har har....

Then there is the whole exploitation matter regarding the current model. Money is NOT an issue in Elite, and remember in the beginning.

The Galaxy was NOT supposed to be 1:1 (David Braben changed that)
There was no fuel consumption, the community pushed for that!
+ more I don't remember as I'm old

 

[Ozram]

Except that 'spend the whole day moving your fleet from System A to System B' is neither deep, challenging nor complex.

Nor would you be doing that if you ordered your fleet to relocate. Even if the all came at the same pace it would take you to pilot them to your location of choice, that work would still be done safely for you while you are free to do something else. Insta fleet/ship transfer is gamey (hard to chew and worse to swallow).

 

[Niberion]

In my opinion,
Ship transfer and module transfer is a great feature but please don't do this instantly. Make a delay depends how far is from one station to another. Thats it, will be perfect.
Thanks

 

[sutex]

I really think it's time for a new mode. Call it what you will HARDCORE, SIMULATION, REALISTIC... A non-switchable environment where the silly things don't reside.

Ok... I wont be using the INSTANT POPCORN SHIP TRAVEL, have to much respect for spacetime to forget that MASS exists, in a space sim game !

Given I will fly my ship all the way out to the furthest place , for some instant popcorn.

I would like ED to allow players the ability to board passengers ships, to come back to the bubble.

Then we can pick up our other ships, and fly back .....while munching on INSTANT POPCORN.. of course


Lets call it the death of INSTANT POPCORN HARDCORE MODE

 

[Lobstris]

Huh? I'd assume that thats exactly the kind of question we dont need a beta for. We know what the function does, there is no ambiguity here: you click a button, a ship appears. What do we need to 'beta test' to form an opinion on what a proper price point would be?

Jeebus. That has to be the most... wha... I don't even know where to begin with that one...

...

OK. You do understand - if it's low, everyone will move ships around lots = gameplay impacts. if it it's too high everyone will not use the feature = pointless. Within those two extremes there is potentially a good compromise (or series of compromises) somewhere that achieves a good balance of the amount of transfers taking place, people's gameplay styles, not affecting CGs or trading adversely etc.

Obviously, reaching a good balance could take time, and many iterations, stretching into the live game. Or alternately (and more likely) we get a week or so to test, it goes live with whatever numbers Frontier wants, and problems fall out along the way (as has happened before - fuel costs, repair costs, cost of the Viper and FdL etc). Also obviously not everyone will be happy with the final outcome.

The first step in all this, now, is to wait for the beta and see what Frontier come up with. Hence "what beta testing is for". Still with me?

Sorry if that sounds patronising, and obvious, but you did just state that you saw no reason in testing the balancing of an aspect of a major, contentious feature, if I understood you correctly. Yes the actual function of the button to summon the ship will probably work first time (but then again, what happened to the 10% fuel button...)

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

See, I've constructive ideas for ways to solve this, but this threadnaught is not the place for them. Everyone needs to go and eat the little book of calm, because sooner or later this thread is gonna get locked down and Sandro will likely say what is and is not possible, then people can formulate suggestions based on that. At this point everything else is speculation.

 

[viper666]

Let's look at the current method of moving all you ships from a to b. When I quit Power Play I moved three ships to Leesti. From memory it was about 300 Light Years. So it was fly ASP to Leesti, buy a sidewinder, fly back to original system, hop into Python rinse and repeat. This was before engineers and FSD upgrades, so by the time I moved the FAS I was to say the least bored.

To make this work and still be believable is simple. You hire a pilot or three and the time it takes is the same as real game flying time from a to b
If you fly one ship, they are all going to arrive on the same day and it's plausible. They could make it based on smallest ship jump range, and you fly with your 'fleet', including the possibility of interdiction with some cool fights.

Or, they introduce some gigantic aircraft carrier style ship that has blink drive technology and can jump 1000 light years in one go, but it costs big bucks to hire the beast. I would think insurance rebuy cost of each ship added together would be about right.

 

[CMDR_Havok]

Hey, I just though of a good semi-exploit with insta transfer.
So If I have an assymetric profit trade run, T9, 5 jumps either way, only really profitable in one direction.

I will be able to cut the 5 jumps down to 1 jump for the non profitable leg of the run in an Asp, then just call up my t9 and take the 5 jumps back, with the big payout cargo. Than call up my Asp again.

It's exactly this kind of snide meta gaming where it will see the most use.

Or just teleport the T9 backwards and forwards with a full hold in the profitable direction.

In Fact, with instant teleport technology available why have a cargo ship at all.... Just teleport the cargo !

 

[Siranui]

From live strem "Space was very big, so..."

We decided that Space shouldn't feel big at all. :/

Honestly, this was a disheartening thing to hear.

On one hand DB is telling us about science and deep gameplay, and otoh the people building the game don't wan't space to be big.